Thread: Axiom Questions

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  1. #1
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    Axiom Questions

    Good Evening,

    Long time lurker here, 1st time poster! I started this post as a PM to Jig34 but thought it may be more appropriate to post on the general forum should anyone have similar questions. I'm looking to upgrade the electronics in my boat and have spent a good amount of time reading about the Axiom. I like the 3 year warranty and 10 year support cycle. I also think the 3D imaging can be helpful for the waters I fish. I was originally started my search by considering units from competing manufacturers that have 360* sonar options. Here's my story and a few questions if you would be so kind.

    I have a 2004 Tracker Avalanche with a 150hp Mercury XR6 outboard. I believe it has the original Lowrance electronics package. There is a small (maybe 3-4 inch) unit attached to the MinnKota Maxxum Pro with Universal Sonar at the bow and a Lowrance GPS/Fishfinder combo (maybe 4-5") at the console. There is a GPS "puck" by the console.

    I primarily fish lakes with water 25ft or less. Most of the time i'm in <10ft. Here are a few questions...

    1) From what I understand, the Axiom product is upgrade-able to continue to improve features and functionality. That being said, is there the possibility of future compatibility with the MinnKota Ultrex and i-Pilot Link? I understand MinnKota and is a Johnson Outdoors company also housing Humminbird. Are there proprietary technologies at play that prevent integration or is it a matter of time and development?

    2) Is there any benefit for me to consider the Axiom Pro vs Axiom? I noticed the transducer on the Pro is a 1Kw CHiRP sonar vs the 600w on the Axiom. I'm also aware the Pro has buttons and knobs along with touch. I also understand (i think) the Axiom has an accessory that gives tactile button control of the screen. The difference in transducer power creates depth, not resolution, correct? For a shallow water angler who generally doesn't need navigation, is there a tangible benefit for the Pro (other than the available 16" display)?

    3) Based in my limited (and probably incorrect) understanding of sonar, Humminbird achieves their "Mega" imaging by using a transducer operating at 1.2Mhz and new software on the Helix / Solix series. Is this achievable by other brands or are there patents involved that prevent others from achieve similar SI/DI results?
    3a) Does Raymarine have plans to release a similar technology for freshwater anglers?
    3b) If Raymarine was to release a higher res solution, would the Axiom be able to use it by replacing the transducer and updating software?


    4) How does depth effect the width of the 3D image the Axiom is able to produce? I'm sure deeper = wider but is there a formula such as "3D width = Depth x 1.5" or something?
    4a) Are the 3D maps able to be stored as they are created? I see this as a FANTASTIC tool for mapping bodies of water and identifying areas and features likely to hold fish. Can I map an entire lake if I were so motivated or is it "scrolling" data that is soon replaced by fresh data?

    5) With multiple displays, would I be able to have one screen display 3D image and Nav while have the other display show SI & DI for a total 4 sources of information over 2 screens?
    5a) If yes, is this achievable by using the "RayControl" app to use say, an iPad, as an additional display or will the app only mirror/manipulate the original Axiom unit?

    6) Following up on the RayControl App, is it possible to link the MinnKota US / US2 sonar to the console and use and iPad as the bow display?
    6a) along the same question as 5a, if yes, could I have the US2 sonar and a combo of SI / DI / 3D showing on both bow and console screens at the same time?

    7) Raymarine seems to be leading in 3D imaging for freshwater sonar. Is there a 360* solution in development?
    7a) If yes, again would the Axiom be upgrade-able vs having to replace the entire setup?

    8) I'm just getting into local tournament fishing. I have my first scheduled event this Sunday, May 6th. It's in a small body of water with a max depth of 15ft I think. I'd love to have my new setup installed and tested by then. Is there a preferred retailer recommended if I decide the Axiom is the best solution for me? I was considering Cabela's as I have a points credit card and a 10% off coupon but am open to recommendations/suggestions.

    9) At what speeds will the 3D imaging operate effectively?

    Thanks for taking the time to read my perhaps nonsensical questions!

    Kind Regards,

    Joe
    Last edited by jprovencher80; 04-29-2018 at 10:23 PM. Reason: add question 9
    2004 Tracker Avalanche with 150 Mercury XR6

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  3. Member MonteSS's Avatar
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    #2
    Seems you are really interested in the 3d. Once you get over the "cool" factor of it, I doubt you will use it much.

    I would imagine the Minnkota link would have patent issues.

    Ipad is really hard to see in the sun and it would eat batteries.

    Usonar would only give you non chirp 2d sonar.

    Garmin Panoptix is awesome and would go nicely side by side with the axiom.

  4. Member Wayne P.'s Avatar
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    #3
    3) Based in my limited (and probably incorrect) understanding of sonar, Humminbird achieves their "Mega" imaging by using a transducer operating at 1.2Mhz and new software on the Helix / Solix series. Is this achievable by other brands or are there patents involved that prevent others from achieve similar SI/DI results?
    3a) Does Raymarine have plans to release a similar technology for freshwater anglers?
    3b) If Raymarine was to release a higher res solution, would the Axiom be able to use it by replacing the transducer and updating software?

    Garmin has already copied it with an add-on and calls it "ULTRA HD". For them it's a black box, different transducer, and software.

    The built-in transducer for a Minnkota or Motorguide is 83/200 kHz 2D sonar only and can be Chirped in those frequency ranges.


    Wayne Purdum
    Charlottesville, Va.
    Helix 12 SI, ONIXCI 10 NT SI, 1198c SI, 1198cSI, bow 360, RC-1
    1.610,--------3.110, ----------------7.670, ----7.670-----2.030
    SOLIX 12 SI, Helix 7 CHIRP SI GPS G2
    3.110,----------1.540

  5. Member
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    #4
    Hi Joe
    I just sent you a PM. I live in NH and would be more than happy to take you out and give you a tutuorial on the Axioms.
    Thanks
    Steve

  6. Honda / Raymarine Moderator Hickory Legend's Avatar
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    #5
    1 Dont believe Raymarine will ever get permission to link to their Trolling motor, That said I have a MinnKota. Spot lock works great, I have the app on my iPhone and can control the basic funtions with it, and you can buy the remotes to do track and other features of the trolling motor.

    2 Axiom Pro offers the keypad, More powerful Sonar,extra Rayport, and an extra Micro SD card slot.
    You can always add a more powerful Sonar like the CP370-CP570, for extremely deep water. If you want to add more then one unit to the Axiom you will need a HS5 to link, But if you want to add more then two items your going to need it for the Pro also.

    3 Yes if they come out with something better for their side if they need hardware they can add it, Just like when they came out with Down and then side vision. You just added it to the older units, didn't have to go out and replace any unit to have it.

    4 Not sure on the width verse depth, so I will leave that, but you can go back and see in history the map not sure if you can record it to the disk. You can mark the spots on the map, and you can record sonar logs and update the maps either live on the unit, or send it to Navionics and have them update the lake maps.

    5 Yes you can have up to 4 apps on any screen, and you control the size of them and what feature is in each one. So you can do maps and 3D on one with them on top of each other or beside each other. Then do sonar /down on another unit. No Ray app required.
    Your answer is NO to doing it with a iPad it just mirrows what the unit is showing.

    6 You can link the sonar to a raymarine but would lose out on the CPT100DVS sonar loosing the down vision. You cant link it to the iPad.
    If you wanted to run the bow unit with the US2 sonar or a raymarine sonar, you can pull them up at the console unit or pull up the RV100 sonar on the bow,
    What I do if use the right home screen as my Bow views with maps and sonar down vision and side on apps up there.
    Then I set the middle screen for the console, views I want for seating in the seat. Yet you can make an app for down/2d sonar on part of the screen and 3D and Side from the RV100 on the other side haveing 4 different transducer from to parts of the boat.

    7 Don't know,
    but Im sure it would be just a hardware add on like they have done in the past. Already have the fastest processor out there so their would be no need to upgrade it.

    9 Not sure I have only done it at idle so I can watch the screen and watch where im going/look out for other boats.


    As for the Ipad eating batteries, you can always carry a power cord to charge it like I do with my phone!

  7. Honda / Raymarine Moderator Hickory Legend's Avatar
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    #6
    As for upgrades, Raymarine just came out with Light House 3 a totally new Operating System for the Axiom and its faster processor, They have gone and made it avaliable on the eS units. They didnt go and make these units legacy units. Now they did for the ealier units, but they dont have the proceccing power to run it without a lag. So they stopped it there.

    When they came out with down vision it was an add on not a totally new unit, then they came out with side vision, again another add on with a box, yet you just plugged it into you old units and was up to date with the latest technology.

    Now if you want an excuse to upgrade units every other year when something comes out not sure Raymarine is right for you.

  8. Member
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    #7
    Thank you all for the info! Is there a preferred retailer to buy from? Any BBC promos?
    2004 Tracker Avalanche with 150 Mercury XR6

  9. Honda / Raymarine Moderator Hickory Legend's Avatar
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    #8
    I would call BOhhhh no wait their salesman on here doesn’t recommend them!!

    Call Brian at BBG marine he’s a great guy!!
    Last edited by Hickory Legend; 04-30-2018 at 07:31 PM.

  10. Member
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    #9
    Thanks for the recommendation
    2004 Tracker Avalanche with 150 Mercury XR6

  11. Member
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    #10
    Joe - I’ll respond / add to tomorrow night. Drove 11 hrs from IL to Niagara Falls today and just getting settled in. Need to stick a few smallies tomorrow and I’ll be recharged.

  12. Member
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    #11
    1) Anything is possible, but probably not. The Minkota / H’bird exclusivity drives a lot of business and probably not something they will ever allow us to do

    2) Only benefit is if you want a 16” display. 1kW is overkill in freshwater. If you like the keypad functionality buy the RMK-10 and if you like a remote card reader, add the RCR. Both of these add-ons are still cheaper than an Axiom Pro vs Axiom

    3) You are correct and I’m not an expert on what can or can’t be patented. That said, it’s a frequency range so even if 1,150-1,1200 was patented, I’m not sure why someone couldn’t use the range 1,250-1,300. These are frequency ranges and a function of that is…higher frequency gives better resolution at shallower depths and slower speeds. I’m not a lawyer and certainly not speaking on behalf of Raymarine regarding what is or isn’t patent worthy

    3a) We are always working on something…

    3b) See 3a

    4) The 3D image is drawn from data gathered from Sonar, DownVision and SideVision. The 3D width is always equal to the SideVision width. Want wider 3D coverage – zoom out on SideVision.

    4a) Axiom units will record up to 10 minutes of historical data. I agree that they absolute best scenario would be to “live 3D map” a lake. The challenge now is that at the end of the day, these are “fishfinders” not “computers”. Memory, storage, etc are a few of the first challenges that come to mind when “live 3D mapping” any lake, especially if someone were inclined to map 10,000 acres (for example).

    5-6) Yes, you can have up to (4) views per page…sonar, DownVision, SideVision, RealVision 3D, chart, radar, weather, camera, etc. Any (4) at any time – assuming you have a radar for radar, weather app for weather, etc.

    Once you tie into a Minkota transducer, that becomes a viable 600W sonar view – same as if you were running a P79 high speed shoot thru transducer. You will never get DownVision, SideVision or 3D from the MK transducer, but you can split a screen with those views – just remember they are reading off of the transom transducer.

    7) See 3a

    7a) See 3a

    8) We have MRP pricing, so price isn’t a factor. Apples to apples same price any where you go. Ordering from Cabela’s is just fine.

    9) ANY transducer will effectively mark if it has “clean” water
    Radar = Air
    Sonar = Water
    Sonar with turbulence or air bubbles in water is bad. That’s a loaded question. I’ve seen them blow out at 5mph and I’ve seen it hold up to 40mph. All depends on the transducer being in water not bubbles (air).

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    #12
    Thank you for the thorough answers.
    2004 Tracker Avalanche with 150 Mercury XR6