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  1. #1
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    Makes me sad to see these things

    A California bill with the aim of banning Christian books and resources
    Assembly Bill 2943


    To know that this country was also founded for those that wanted to worship God in ways other than the Roman Catholic way of days long gone. To things like this. Yes there's more to this "bill" but things that happen in one state tend to have a ripple affect, sooner or later, in all states. I'm not saying I'm perfect, that's why I ask for forgiveness when I pray. My dad, who passed away Feb. 9th of this year, was a Baptist preacher ever since I can remember and he instilled those values in me. My dad would always talk about end times are getting close be ready. Guess what I'm trying to say is Believe in the Lord and keep the faith and pass that along to our children and grandchildren. Enjoy what God has put on this earth. And what better way (any time really) to to do those things than when we're fishing or hunting. Please forgive me if this seems like rambling just had to share the part about passing it on.

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    #2
    Just more proof of what the bible predicts. That in the end times good will be known as evil and evil known as good. As a Christian I fear not as I know who is ultimately in control.
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

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    #3
    Mat 24:12, "Because of the increase in wickedness, the love of most will grow cold."

    Is 5:20, "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil."

  5. Member LewStulePH.D.'s Avatar
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    #4
    This ought to provide You some relief/comfort

    https://www.factcheck.org/2018/04/ca...ban-the-bible/
    All Indians walk single file, at least the only one I knew did...

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    #5
    What about a Pastor declaring from the pulpit that homosexuality is a sin or evil? In California or elsewhere. Labelled 'hate speech'?

    Your post (factcheck site) calls Christian council for homosexuallity 'fraudulent'. Never underestimate the power of the Holy Spirit. We talk about Old Testament miracles. How about a modern miracle: the turning of a man's heart! Ezk 36:26b, "I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."--compliments of the Holy Spirit.

    What about 'factcheck' being fact checked? Translated: Factcheck is biased (as per the Presidential debates). "Of coarse they're not biased, they only strive for the truth." Rrrrright.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 04-28-2018 at 12:06 PM.

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    #6
    The act of homosexuality is a sin, just like cheating on your wife or sex before marriage. Any pastor that preaches hate for the person, as separate from the act, won't find me in the pews.

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    #7
    It is one of a few sins that is listed as an abomination, there is a reason for that. Hating the sinner is not the answer, yet condoning it in any way isn't either.
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

  9. Member LewStulePH.D.'s Avatar
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    #8
    Of course I provided the one which was the easiest to read... Here is the one from the State:

    https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...01720180AB2943
    All Indians walk single file, at least the only one I knew did...

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    #9
    The church in North America (the only one I'm familiar with) tends to go light on the Law--tough on attendance. Focusing on the Law makes the Gospel all the sweeter. Punting the Law suggests no need for the Gospel. As to the homosexuality and cheating comparisons, its much, much worse that that. Matt 5 says that if you even look at another woman you have committed adultery in your heart. Point number 2: Christ died and rose for homosexuals and all sinners (Rom 5:18)(some would argue that point). That's showing love while not condoning the sin. Like Christ said to the woman at the well: "Go and sin no more."

    I went to a homosexuality/church event years ago just to see what they were up to. Sure enough, they had Scripture twisted around like a pretzel. There were about 15 tables set up with 6-8 per table. The flame throwing contingent was in the back, right? No, they were front and center--right in front of the microphone. My question was, "If you take liberties with Scripture (it can be edited, adjusted, deleted), how can you be sure of salvation?" The leader of the program responded, "Oh, I can be sure." He didn't go into detail. I got booed off the microphone. So much for tolerance. IMO they had much bigger problems than homosexuality. Why was Sodom destroyed? Her unbelief--which manifested itself in homosexuality and other ways.

    As to documents written by men; fact checks, government issue, etc.--they are tainted by sin and cannot be trusted in spiritual matters. The place of homosexuals in Christianity, the authority of Scripture (even vs the state), definition of sin are all spiritual matters.

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    #10
    Libs and government are fully capable of obfuscating the truth and/or hiding their intentions. Example:

    Libs (in and out of government), "We don't want to take away your guns." John Paul Stevens (high ranking lib, retired Supreme Court Justice), "Repeal the Second Amendment." (NYT 3/27/18)

    Libs (in and out of government), "We don't want to ban the Bible." vs Obama and the 'bitter clingers' comment, clinging to their Bibles.--a hindrance to good governance.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 05-01-2018 at 09:54 AM.

  12. NOT a Pro Angler sdbrison's Avatar
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    #11
    I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt until they are proven wrong. That being said I will accept the sponsors word that the bill is not "intended" or aimed to ban the Bible and other Christian books as the op sites. I have also seen memes and posts on my FB account that the bill outright bans the Bible which is an untruth, and such stretches of the truth is why we as a society can no longer sit down and have a civil conversation about things we disagree on. With that said, laws are sometime passed that have results that were far from their original intention, in fact the folks for gun control argue that point about the 2nd amendment. The welfare laws were "intended" to lift people out of poverty to a better life instead of creating the welfare state we have today. As the old saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't live in CA but for arguments sake let's say I do. The bill may not directly ban the Bible, but if I understand it correctly it would prevent me from paying a counselor, pastor, psychologist, or ANYONE to talk with my child about their sexuality and a shared Christian view of homosexuality, meaning the state's beliefs will override my religious beliefs. For that reason I would oppose the bill wholeheartedly.

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    #12
    CONTEXT , CONTEXT , CONTEXT

    Mathew 10:23 "You will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of man comes".

    1. Who was Jesus referencing in this text when He said "you will not finish going through the cities of Israel ?
    2. Who was his audience in this text ?

    Mathew 16:28 "There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom"

    1.Who was standing there when Jesus made this proclamation ? Are some in that crowd still alive today ?

    Mathew 24:34 : "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place "

    1. What generation was Jesus referencing ?
    2. In the words proceeding this proclamation , "all these things" what were those things He had just mentioned ?

    1 John 2:18 "Dear children, it is the last hour"

    1. Was John a mere man ? if so, Mathew 24:36 clearly states "No man knows the day or the hour" How could John write something that other scripture clearly says a mere man , nor an angel not even Jesus could know................

    Just some food for thought for those that believe WE are living in the last days.

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    #13
    The 'last days' started about 2000 years ago.

    2 Pet 3:8b, "With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like a day."

    v10 "but the day of the Lord will come like a thief."

    --be prepared, for many it is literally "the last hour" since we don't know when we'll die.

    #1 rule of interpreting Scripture: Context, context, context (immediate and remote).

    Since its Ascension Day today, enjoy what it means.

    We can have a discussion on "Judgement Day" but suffice it to say it could have been in John's time (wasn't), Augustine's time (wasn't), etc. And tomorrow? Parable of the 10 virgin's lamps Matt 25:1. Culminates in v13, "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."

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    #14
    Yes the "last days" did start about 2000 years ago and ended with Jesus' "Parousia" second appearing. The use of a "Parousia Delay theology" is a relatively new concept which only a few hundred years old.

    I am not sure why you would bring up 2 Pet. 3 and not deal with the direct biblical text I quoted.

    I will deal with 2nd Peter 3 with context, context and context. During Jesus' ministry there were many false prophets claiming they were the Christ. (not gonna quote all those verses you seem to know some bible verses) . After Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and ascension many more false prophets arose and false Christ appeared in the first century as is outlined in the Apostles writings (New Testament) .

    2 Peter was written as reminder too those first century believers that Jesus was about to come again (Parousia) second appearing. The hardships, persecutions, trials and tribulations and those pesky scoffers (those are verses found in in 1st and 2nd peter) were going to be short lived because of the eminence of His appearing. Peter was encouraging them to be found right before God at His appearing.

    If you read 2 Peter 3:1-9 and its context....................Peter is clearly referencing his fist century audience and makes NO MENTION of any type of "Remote" context. Vs.4 says..............They will say, where is this "coming" (Parousia) he promised ?

    The scoffers in that day were scoffing at the 1st century believers because they knew while Jesus was on earth He promised His return within the generation of those who heard his message. After Jesus ascended, the Apostles wrote the New Testament over the next 40 years and were teaching those in the early church the same thing Jesus had taught them during His ministry.......................It would be "soon", "at hand" "at the door" "it is the last hour" ect.

    Because Peter was written in the late 60's A.D. time was running out for Jesus to be correct about the "timing of His coming". That generation was almost gone. It had been almost 40 years since Jesus uttered those eminent time statements which pertain to his second appearing. So the scoffers were ridiculing the early church saying.................where is this coming He promised?

    Peter then went on to assure the early church................2 Peter 3:1 -3 This is my Second letter to remind you of what I'm about to communicate , to stimulate them to wholesome (correct) thinking, God is not slack in keeping his promises as some are saying so, what I'm about to tell you is from the prophets in the old testament and from the lips our own Lord and Savior through the Apostles.

    Then Peter says, although its been a long time since Jesus uttered those words, and we have been proclaiming His coming for almost 40 years, with the Lord a day is like a thousand years and thousand years is like a day..... He has given this generation time because He is patient not wanting anyone to perish.

    The context of both books of peters' are clear................the end was near and it was near only because they had been taught by Jesus He would return in their lifetime, before that generation passed away.

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    #15
    I forgot to mention. I do believe in "remote" context , but only when the context suggest it as such, Example:

    Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end...............vs.9 He replied, go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end. Many will be made purified , spotless and refined but the wicked will continue to be wicked...................................vs. 13 As for you, go your way till the end, you will rest, and then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.

    Daniel had this amazing vision regarding the last days.............................. but the Lord knew Daniel would not be alive to see its fulfillment. He would be buried and then at the last day would arise to receive his inheritance. Therefore he could seal that scroll and it would be unsealed at the proper time (last days)

    If you move over to the New Testament, John who wrote Revelation was told something directly opposite of what Daniel was told.

    Revelation 22:10 "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll because the time is near."

    Context and audience relevance is a huge key to understanding scripture.

    These books were not written too us , but for us. When this is understood, and you identity the audience, place, setting, situation, timing it goes a long way in helping people understand them better. You don't need a 4 page chart to explain eschatology which so many people teach . No wonder people have such hard time opening their bibles and understanding it. Many think they need a seminary professor to explain to them what's going on. Heck, the bible was written by people like you and I, not a scholar in a ivory tower.

  17. NOT a Pro Angler sdbrison's Avatar
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    #16
    Thanks for the thoughts dozer. Just so I am clear, you believe the 2nd coming has already happened?
    "If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
    "Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack

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    #17
    I should have been more precise. The last days started over 2000 years ago--and we're still in them.

    When Christ returns for the Second Coming, no one will miss it. Even the guy in the deepest darkest cave will know.

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrison View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts dozer. Just so I am clear, you believe the 2nd coming has already happened?
    You are welcome. I also want everyone to know I spent 45 years believing in a future coming (that was the only thing I had ever been taught or known). I'm not here to argue theology...............I just enjoy sharing what I feel is very plain in the text of scripture.

    There is only 1 second appearing mentioned in scripture. Not a spiritual coming in A.D. 70 and another at some point in history , not several appearing's as some believe (rapture/ Jesus coming in the clouds but not stepping on earth at that time).

    If you study the 4 or 5 greek words translated into English such as "near", "soon", "at hand", "shortly", "a little while" ect. they were used hundreds of times In the New Testament when not speaking of "last days" events.

    What I mean by this is: These were everyday words used by those in the first century as recorded over and over in the N.T. They had specific meanings and they meant exactly how our modern day translators have used them in most of your current translation of the greek text (KJV,NIV, NASB versions ect)



    ****It is very strange that although these words were used hundreds of times in the N.T. writings it is only when they are used in regards to eschatological passages (last things/last days/day of judgment/second appearing ect.) that these normal everyday words begin to take on meanings that are foreign to the original meaning or their use in everyday life. All of the sudden, they become a spiritual word , when in reality they are not spiritual words but just words they used daily. So when the N.T. writers wrote to the Corinthians, Ephesians, Colossians ect those that heard the speaker read those scrolls when they were delivered to that city church or were passed around other communities , they knew what "shortly" meant, they knew what "the time is at hand " meant. They knew what "at the door" meant.

    For us to change the meaning of a word to fit our Theology is not doing the word of God justice. We should allow the words to form our Theology.

    For those who have studied church history in any detail understand what happened during the enlightenment period of Europe . The damage done to the credibility of Christ and of the Inspiration of Scripture is still resounding today, not only in secular/atheist circles but great damage has been done within the walls of churches today.

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    #19
    READING SOMEONE ELSES MAIL.......................

    1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
    Greetings and Doxology

    4 John,To the seven churches in the province of Asia


    Before John got into the figurative language , metaphors, imagery , visions, dragons, Scorpions, world burning, Moon becoming blood red and the Sun being darkend ect....... We find the Prologue and Salutation of Johns letter. In other words, there is nothing "spiritual" or difficult to define in a Prologue or Salutation of any letter.

    Vs. 1 The revelation of Jesus Christ. Revelation means to unveil.........unhide, to make known ect............that is so funny because today in Christianity most don't even like reading Revelation because they have a hard time understanding it. That is very true on two fronts. #1 because when they read it, it does not line up with what they have been taught and #2 The literary forms used 2000 years ago are foreign to us today. Ill give one example. If I were living in the first century and made this statement " Its raining cats and dogs" those guys/ladies would look at me like I was out of my mind or they would inquire as to the meaning of that phrase.
    It is no different for us reading their mail (books of the bible). Example : Ezekiel made reference to Israel's enemies saying "the sun will be turned to darkness and the moon blood red" . If you were a Jew in the Old testament or even a couple thousand years later and you heard Jesus or the Apostles mention the same phrase.......................it would stimulate your mind to recall what happened to Israel's enemies long before. The sun and moon did not change literally........................but figuratively to display the utter destruction brought on Israel enemies.
    Fast forward to Jesus day..................He used Ezeikels terms and at his second appearing in 70AD His enemies were utterly destroyed.

    vs. 1 continued.............show his servants what must soon take place. what must soon means exactly that. It wasn't going to be a protracted "Parousia Delay" 2000 and counting.........it was to take place SOON.

    vs. 3 "because the time is near" The time is not negotiable, it isn't dependent on anyone's acceptance of the Gospel it is NEAR.

    vs. 4 "to the seven churches in the Province of Asia". This scroll was written to a group of believers in Asia. Not America, not Canada, not Iceland ect. In order to understand the meaning of the book, you have to understand who it was written too. You have to understand the history of these people and The great things that it would bring us today, namely the New Covenant/Gospel/Kingdom of God.

    Read Revelation 22 and see the imminence that was communicated to those in Asia ( not to mention all the other chapters)

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by msethsmile View Post
    I should have been more precise. The last days started over 2000 years ago--and we're still in them.

    When Christ returns for the Second Coming, no one will miss it. Even the guy in the deepest darkest cave will know.
    Yes I understand your position of "we are still in them"..................that is reading what the enlightenment period has done to the church today. A Parousia delayed is not a healthy doctrine for the church.

    I do not believe they missed his return in A.D. 70. Read Josephus "the jewish wars" it sheds some light on the devastation that Jesus brought to his enemies............it was no small thing.

    Lastly, I will cover in greater detail about the word "world" , "land" ect .............................Just as a heads up. Those terms were very seldom used to speak about people in South America, or the southern continent of Africa ect. Even the King James Version has made a recent correction in regard's to this because they allowed doctrine to get in the way of properly interpreting this word. I applaud them for the correction because as I stated in a earlier response, we should allow the words to define out theology and not allow theology to define the bible.

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