Ok 3dog...............................all scripture has not been fulfilled according to your commentary / belief .................................everyone can believe 3dog because he said its so.Originally Posted by 3dogdare
UGH..................
No scriptura NO EXEGEIESE , no documentation on what you believe and why you believe it..................its just fact. ok , I GIVE UP :)
Last edited by godsdozer; 05-17-2018 at 11:03 PM.
I am not ashamed of "stretching" more than most you seen...................
Its about time believers stood up for what was written by the N.T. authors.
Once again, I should have been more precise: original texts. 1. That's why its good to have a parallel bible and compare translations (unless a person speaks fluent Hebrew and ancient Greek--most of us don't). Usually the publishers will put in 3 popular translations and throw in a funky fourth one. 2. That's why its good for Pastors to know and use Hebrew and koine (definite misspelling) Greek. Original texts.
Keep dodging--more red flags by the minute
1. Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore inerrant and infallible (T/F).
2. Divinely inspired is a long way from inspired. (Only divinely inspired used in spiritual matters) (T/F).
3. Sola Scriptura. Scripture is the only norm and source for spiritual matters. Scripture interprets itself. (Leave man out of it-Man does not have the authority nor the ability to interpret Scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin) (T/F).
I answer True to all the above.
This is not technical--its fundamental stuff
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-18-2018 at 08:32 AM.
Are you saying that Revelation 1:7 has been fulfilled? If so then why is there no documentation of such a glorious event. I would assume that an event of such greatness would have been historically documented for all to know.
All sheep are eventually led to slaughter
Hello Jeff,
Revelation 1:7 New International Version (NIV)7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[a]1. There are secular and Christian documentation from the first Century . These events are mentioned by the early church fathers if you will review their writings.
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[b]
So shall it be! Amen.
2. Have you taken the time to review all the things I have mentioned in this thread.
3. Have you watched Dr. R.C. Sprouls series "LAST DAYS ACCORDING TO JESUS" ? He mentions a few of the most prominent ones.
4. Have you read Dr. Kenneth Gentry's book " Before Jerusalem fell"
5. Have you read , "Behind the veil of Moses", "The Parousia", "Paradise Restored", "The Days of Vengeance" "Last Days Madness" The end of the law Torah to Telos" "The Resurrection of Daniel 12" "The Hymenaeum heresy" "He shall have Dominion" " The Beast of Revelation" "House divided" "70 weeks are determined for the Ressurection" "Misplaced Hope" Just to mention a few of the hundreds I have read.
6. Please take note of "even those who pierced him" , When Jesus came within that generation those who pierced Him saw his Glorious appearing.
I cant study for you guys. I can only make note of History and most importantly Inspired writings contained in the bible.
Regards
I have never dodged.........................I agree to the above 1,2,3 items.
I was just trying to understand your reasoning. While your list of accomplishments is quite large I have a tendency to simplify things and look strictly to the bible which to me is written by the hand of God. I wish you well.
All sheep are eventually led to slaughter
Hello Jeff,
I have tried to simplify it in this thread . "Theology" proper is a very complicated discipline. I am by no means a scholar. This is one reason I have quoted from some of them.
I, like you, try to keep it simple. I listed in one of my post over 100 verses "written by the hand of God" to show how simple it can really be to believe exactly what the Apostles were trying to convey. The Apostles did not have to use Greek words that were immersed with "imminent" language. They did not have to use "soon", "at hand" "at the door" "near" "...................if they did not mean what the wrote. They could have said hey, we don't know when Jesus is coming back, he never told us, just be ready in case he decides to come today.
Wish you the best as well
LOL, I just caught this part of your post................."(Leave man out of it-Man does not have the authority nor the ability to interpret Scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin) (T/F)."
If Man does not have the "ability to interpret scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin".........................why do so many people bother to read the bible? I really can not believe you actually said that.
In all seriousness,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, if what you stated was true........................................why did God leave the bible for us ? surely He would know "we couldn't interpret correctly" ( Your words, not mine) Maybe He wanted us to have 50,000 detonations so we could have strife, conflict, church splits, .................ect.
I cant even take your commentary on the Reformers serious . Surely you know what the Reformers meant more precisely than any statement like that.
Listen, if you and I disagree, that's ok. But for you to post a statement like that, even the "babe" in Christ can see through that.
P.S. I do not agree with what you have written.........................
11We have much to say about this, but it is hard to make it clear to you because you no longer try to understand.12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food! 13Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness. 14But solid food is for the mature, who by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from evil.
Now I'm more confused--that's saying something. Are you doing a John Kerry, "I voted for it before I voted against it."?
."Its about time believers stood up for what was written by the N.T. authors." --there's only one N.T. author. (singular, God) 2Pet 1:21
"If Man does not have the "ability to interpret scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin".........................why do so many people bother to read the bible? I really can not believe you actually said that." ----We really are far apart. I said it and I'll say it again. Scripture interprets Scripture (not man). People read it because it is God's revelation to man and points to salvation (Its goal).
Tell me, tell me:
1. How does man (sinful, imperfect) interpret correctly something that is perfect, Holy (Scripture)? I take the high view of Scripture. You do not.You take the high view of man. I do not.
2.If you write me a letter, who gets to interpret that letter correctly? You do, the author knows the letter's intent. Scripture is God's love letter to man. He wrote it, He, the author, gets to define or interpret it. Scripture interprets itself.
3. There are 7 billion plus people in the world. With your method (man interprets) there would be 7,000,000,000 different interpretations of Scripture. Sounds kinda messy. God's method: only one interpretation of Scripture--His. Its all about certainty of salvation. God wants certainty for His people. One author, one intent, clarity. 2Pet 1:21
4. Gen 6:5, "every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." That's the man that correctly interprets Scripture? Really? I can't believe you said/suggested that.
I never said proper hermaneutics was easy. Not only does it require more study, its also hard on our egos.
I've said before, Does man define Scripture or does Scripture define man? The answer is the latter. Scripture tells us who we are (bad news-Law) and what God has done (made new) to fix us (Gospel). "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-19-2018 at 09:55 AM.
You said............Gen 6:5, "every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time." That's the man that correctly interprets Scripture? Really? I can't believe you said/suggested that.
Yes, I really said it, and mean it............... God gave His opinion about those who were once dead in sins, hearts of stone, sinners, and then what happens once someone believes the Gospel.
26I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.......................
7Therefore, if anyone is in Christ,the new creation has come:[a]The old has gone, the new is here
11 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12 For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[a]
13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansingb her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless
You keep trying to mix "Law/Old Covenant" with "Grace/New Covenant" And I completely understand why you do.
You have a very distorted view of why Christ came and what He accomplished for those who are found in Him.
I wish you the best ms, you can have the last word.
800 views on this thread , can anyone answer this .
There is little interpretation needed, allow the scripture to explain itself, but with the niv you aren't getting accurate scripture.
Christians are simultaneously saint and sinner. Yes, Christians have a new spiritual heart given to them by God (Ezekiel 36:26) yet they die (result of sin). "Wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23a (Law). "But the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 6;23b (Gospel)
Mixing Law and Gospel is a no-no. Not sure where you're at on the mix of Law/Gospel and Covenants comment. The Law is found throughout Scripture, Old and New Testaments (Covenants). Gospel found throughout Old and New Testaments (Covenants). Some say first recorded Gospel is Gen 3:15. A case could be made for the first recorded Gospel in the term "LORD" (all caps)--the God of THE promise, which predates 3:15.
Sounds like you don't like the Gen 6:5 passage, "only evil all the time."--we all don't either. New Testament, Rom 3:10, "There is no one righteous, not even one...All have turned away." "All" means all. That's Law. Passage itself a quote from O.T.
Keep dodging the questions. How does the imperfect man (the one who dies--proof he's imperfect) interpret the perfect (Scripture)? Man's reason, emotion, experience, tradition (regenerated or not) are still tainted by sin. "Surely the people are grass. The grass withers and the flowers fall but the word of God stands forever." (Is 40:8) There's the reliable source: Scripture interprets itself. Man's ways (and Man himself) are fleeting. Scripture simply stands.
We agree on one thing (I think)--we are miles apart.
800 views on this thread and godsdozer can't answer how 2 sides with polarized view of interpreting scripture (basis) can converse on any topic. We must speak the same language. We don't. High view of Scripture vs. the low view.
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-21-2018 at 09:59 AM.
related topic--
What was Adam and Eve's problem? Eating the forbidden fruit? Answer: They despised (willing to do without) God's word. In this case the word was spoken by God. The serpent even chimed in, "Did God really say...". A&E chose to ignore, edit, pollute, reinvent God's clear word.
Thousands of years later, what is man's problem? We choose to ignore, edit, pollute, reinvent God's clear written word. Mark this: When we mess around with Scripture or its interpretation (singular)---the last domino to fall is always the Gospel. "Did God really say?" Yes, He said it and that's that. Scripture interprets itself.
A&E wanted to be (like) God. When we mess with Scripture by interpreting it, we, playing the role of God, define terms in Scripture we don't have the authority to do. Man seeks to diminish God and increase himself. Welcome to the high and low views of Scripture.
For those that disagree, that's fine. Ponder this statement: We have fallen so far we can't even recognize how far we've fallen. Gen 6:5/Rom 3:10-12 become alien to us.
Thank God He fixes even this:
"as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." Ps103:12 (Gospel)
"You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea." Mic 7:19 (Gospel)
---all these verses are a prediction of Christ. When God makes a promise, even in Gen 3:15, it is as good as accomplished. Done deal. Roughly a week before the battle of Jericho--Joshua 6:2, 'Then the LORD said to Joshua, "See, I have delivered Jericho into your hands..."'. God said the battle was over and it was as good as accomplished. Done Deal.
So it is with Scripture. Done deal. Certainty of salvation. Confidence in forgiveness of sins and eternal life.
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-23-2018 at 08:40 AM.
Very interesting......................which version of the bible do you believe is accurate ?
Don't buy the "last domino to fall is the Gospel" comment? Listen to the liberal/progressive/heterodox churches. Plenty online. They choose to reinterpret Scripture. What you will hear in their sermons is usually social gospel, the counterfeit of the real Gospel ("While we were yet sinners Christ died for us." Rom5:8b). You will never hear explicit Law (we sinned and deserve hell right now) and explicit Gospel. Counterfeit social gospel is how to be a better person, drive a greener car, be civil rights warrior, get rich, etc. While some of these topics are important--they cannot save. "All our righteous acts are like filthy rags." Is 64:6. Even our acts done in faith stink to God. We shouldn't present our dirty laundry to God and expect a good result. Only the Gospel can truly move hearts. Only the Gospel can save. "I wait on the LORD, my soul waits, and in his word I put my hope." Ps130:5
Authorized king James.
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