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  1. Member
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    #41
    Godsdozer, as I understand what you have posted, you are saying all prophecy has been fulfilled and what? We are in the kingdom age?

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    #42
    3dog.................Yes all prophecy has been fulfilled Luke 21:20-22 20“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.


    We know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Jerusalem was surrounded by the Roman armies and the city was made desolate. If you will read Mathew 24 it will help you get the CONTEXT , CONTEXT , CONTEXT OF WHAT MATHEW 24 IS TALKING ABOUT along with Luke 21 and Mark 13. At the very start of the passage they were leaving the city and the disciples commented to Jesus about its beauty.............Jesus said to them................Not one stone will be left upon another , every one will be thrown down. As they walked up the mount of olives the disciples UNDERSTOOD the significance of what Jesus just uttered. (If you were a Jew you would know that the temple mount was where they met with God , brought their sacrifices each year for cleansing ect .) Jesus utterance about its destruction would be catastrophic to the Jew.


    According to the author of Revelation
    1. The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

    The things contained in the book were to happen soon, and the time was near. Part of the book (chapter 21) was a New Heaven and a New Earth that was going to come down from heaven. In chapter 22 we see a more detailed description of this city. If you know much about the Garden of Eden this description is almost identical.

    Dr. G.K. Beale has wrote a masterful piece (The Temple and the churches mission) on the imagery of the Garden temple and of the City described in Revelation. For those who do not like to read, I think there are youtube or internet videos of some conferences he has held which he outlines what's in his book.

    I will condense it for you. The garden was where God came and walked in the cool of evening with man.................THINK FELLOWSHIP . In the city described in Revelation God dwells with man again just as He did in the garden.

    Please note, that after all has been fulfilled according to the book of Revelation..................the spirit and bride are still saying "come" drink the water of the water of life................those outside of the city are still being called to come in the city by the Spirit.

    Revelation , last things, end times, judgment ect. was a time when the old covenant was ended, the new covenant
    was consummated. Its really a simple story when we don't complicate it. The new testament was written in a period of "transition" from old covenant to new covenant . that is why there was dispute over what they could eat, what they could do on the Sabbath, what laws they had to follow ect. This was something new for the Jews..................a transition.

    When Jesus appeared a second time...............His enemies were destroyed (those who persecuted the church, killed his followers and also put Him on a cross), the temple was laid waste because there would be no need for one in the New Covenant (because he is our temple according to the book of Revelation chapter 21 & 22) , death was defeated (THINK OF THE KIND OF DEATH THAT OCCURED WITH ADAM), I could go on and on and on about all the great things our Lord did for us at His appearing. Thank God He was merciful to us and his grace abounds forever.

    I'm sorry, there is way too much to type here, I'm just giving snippets.





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    #43
    Please remember, the bible is a very Jewish book. written by Jews, for Jews.

    21Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon. 22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is demon-possessed and suffering terribly.”23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.”27“Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”28Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.


    "For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile."

    5
    u
    These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, “Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of
    z
    the Samaritans,6
    a
    but go rather to
    b
    the lost sheep of
    c
    the house of Israel.

    Jesus mission....................To the Jews, for the Jews ect. But because God is rich with Mercy even us who were not in covenant with God get to be a part of His Kingdom, only because God promised a NEW COVENANT (that promise was contained in both the old testament and the new testament documents).

    When Jesus came as a man , his ministry was to do the fathers will. As He traveled throughout Israel he noticed the Jews for the most part rejected His message and we see this testimony about them.............

    18 In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered

    This was a picture of the Jews, there was no fruit only leaves. Jesus cursed the tree and promised He would come cut down/destroy it
    at His second appearing

    Mathew 3:10 "The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire"

    Now if you will read Mathew 24, mark 13, and Luke 21 and read it in its context you may start to get the picture.

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    #44
    I will disagree on one simple fact, Israel has never occupied all of the land promised to isreal, and David is not our king. You say context but you are stretching more than most I have seen

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    #45
    Dodging again.
    1. Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore inerrant and infallible (T/F).
    2. Divinely inspired is a long way from inspired. (Only divinely inspired used in spiritual matters) (T/F).
    3. Sola Scriptura. Scripture is the only norm and source for spiritual matters. Scripture interprets itself. (Leave man out of it-Man does not have the authority nor the ability to interpret Scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin) (T/F).

    The German/Spanish comparison was just a figurative example.

    I answer True to all the above.
    Last edited by msethsmile; 05-17-2018 at 03:02 PM.

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    #46
    Ok guys..................thanks for your comments.

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    #47
    May I ask yall a question ?

    Has Mathew 24:14 been fulfilled?

    "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world, and then the end will come" ?

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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by msethsmile View Post
    Dodging again.
    1. Scripture is divinely inspired and therefore inerrant and infallible (T/F).
    2. Divinely inspired is a long way from inspired. (Only divinely inspired used in spiritual matters) (T/F).
    3. Sola Scriptura. Scripture is the only norm and source for spiritual matters. Scripture interprets itself. (Leave man out of it-Man does not have the authority nor the ability to interpret Scripture correctly, because he is tainted by sin) (T/F).

    The German/Spanish comparison was just a figurative example.

    I answer True to all the above.
    Are you talking about the "Protestant" scriptures, "Eastern Orthodoxy", "Catholic" "Deuterocanical" or Pseudepigrapha books ?

    When do you think our (assuming you are protestant) bible was put into a biblical cannon ?

    So when you say you believe scripture is inspired ........................we have to define terms , remember

    If you want to get technical, I can go there too.

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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    I will disagree on one simple fact, Israel has never occupied all of the land promised to isreal, and David is not our king. You say context but you are stretching more than most I have seen
    I don't have the time to post the entire bible on a forum. If you are interested in learning Please listen to this :

    Part 1 https://vimeo.com/29447684


    Part 2 https://vimeo.com/29447981

    He will certainly answer you land questions.

    Regards

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    #50
    I am not going to argue either, just agree to disagree. Fyi, don't trust a man, or how he spins it.

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    I am not going to argue either, just agree to disagree. Fyi, don't trust a man, or how he spins it.
    I do not put my trust in any man except The Man, Jesus Christ. I do think we have people who can teach us..............do you ?

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    #52
    Some books, or rather parts of them have been helpful. But most try to make the scriptures fit into what they want to believe. Christ mentioned multiple times of using 2 or 3 witnesses. So if a person can't find multiple scriptures concerning the same subject it can't be a proper teaching. Picking one here and there that sound the same but in actuality were speaking of different subjects won't work. Yes the temple was destroyed in a.d 70 but Matthew 24 and rev 6 have not been fulfilled and won't be until Christ comes back. And after the trumpet and bowl judgements the mellinial age will start and a new Jerusalem will come down from heaven.
    Last edited by 3dogdare; 05-17-2018 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Wasn't done

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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    Some books, or rather parts of them have been helpful. But most try to make the scriptures fit into what they want to believe. Christ mentioned multiple times of using 2 or 3 witnesses. So if a person can't find multiple scriptures concerning the same subject it can't be a proper teaching. Picking one here and there that sound the same but in actuality were speaking of different subjects won't work. Yes the temple was destroyed in a.d 70 but Matthew 24 and rev 6 have not been fulfilled and won't be until Christ comes back. And after the trumpet and bowl judgements the mellinial age will start and a new Jerusalem will come down from heaven.
    Thank you 3dog,

    I don't think I have quoted anyone but inspired writers from the Old and N.T. writers............. I have mentioned many very respected Theologians and those Theologians do not agree with my point of view. (some are very close ie: Partial Preterist and partial preterist are considered within the pale of Orthodoxy ) .

    To your comment :
    "So if a person can't find multiple scriptures concerning the same subject it can't be a proper teaching."

    I think I have posted a hundred or more scriptures stating exactly what my view is regarding the last days.

    To your comment : "
    Picking one here and there that sound the same but in actuality were speaking of different subjects won't work."

    If you have read each of my post I have actually encouraged reading a text, passage, chapter or book to get context. I am not sure what you mean by speaking of different subjects ? There is only One Second Appearing, One Resurrection, One Judgment, One Great Day of the Lord, One End Times, One ................blah blah blah

    To your comment : "
    But most try to make the scriptures fit into what they want to believe"

    Yay ! We agree on this :)

    To your comment : "
    Yes the temple was destroyed in a.d 70 but Matthew 24 and rev 6 have not been fulfilled and won't be until Christ comes back"

    I appreciate your honesty about the temple being destroyed in 70 A.D. Since I have encouraged anyone reading this thread to familiarize themselves with the Mathew 24 , Mark 13 and Luke 21 I encourage you to do it as well.

    If you will read it slowly and carefully you will come across this conversation : "3
    As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “
    when
    will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

    The disciples asked a couple of very interesting questions. I hope you would evaluate them carefully before being so critical of my view .

    1. Tell us when ?

    2. And what will be the sign of your coming (Parousia)

    3. Please see the last word in the text .................AGE . Jesus never talked about an end to this world (cosmos greek) but rather He used the term (Aion greek). The two Greek words have two very distinct meanings. For many years the King James Version used the word "World" when interpreting Aion, and now they have finally corrected that mistake in the newer versions.

    If I said the WORLD was gonna end that would mean one thing. If I said the AGE was gonna end, that would have a different meaning. Think about that please!

    The rest of the chapter is Jesus' answer to those two questions.

    I didn't cherry pick, I have several witnesses, namely Christ himself the greatest witness of all.

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    #54
    I will repeat my question from a above ...........

    May I ask yall a question ?

    Has Mathew 24:14 been fulfilled?

    "And this gospel of the kingdom
    will be preached in the whole world
    ,
    and then the end will come
    " ?

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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    I will disagree on one simple fact, Israel has never occupied all of the land promised to isreal, and David is not our king. You say context but you are stretching more than most I have seen
    3dog, I just caught this part of your comment: "and David is not our king"

    Where in any of my post have I said David is our king ? Please copy and paste any comment I have made about David is our King. Please do not add to my words. Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

    Jesus is the only King that matters to me. He is the one who died for my sins, cleansed me from all unrighteousness, wrote my name in the book of life, ect.


    Regards

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    #56
    Just a thought, I have yet to meet anyone who has read the scriptures on there own and developed a personal doctrine by themselves. While we may not trust a man, I am willing to bet each and everyone here has been greatly influenced in theology by other humans, whether that be parents, siblings, pastors, friends... the list can go on and on. While I strongly hold to the belief that the Bible (the protestant canons) is the divinely inerrant Word of God, I will disagree that men don't have a great deal of influence on how we understand that Word. When a church or persons claims that they have all true knowledge of the Word it brings to mind the scriptural equivalent of such groups, the pharisees, scribes, and sadducees. The Word made Man showed that establishment how far from the truth they were. If men were not involved in how the Word is held then there would be one true church here not the multitudes of denominations we see.
    "If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
    "Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack

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    #57
    You said all scripture has been fullfilled, it has not, and Christ said of the time and hour no one will know. He gave us things that must take place. And it simply hasn't. And know to your question it hasn't been spread to all people and nations

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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by sdbrison View Post
    Just a thought, I have yet to meet anyone who has read the scriptures on there own and developed a personal doctrine by themselves. While we may not trust a man, I am willing to bet each and everyone here has been greatly influenced in theology by other humans, whether that be parents, siblings, pastors, friends... the list can go on and on. While I strongly hold to the belief that the Bible (the protestant canons) is the divinely inerrant Word of God, I will disagree that men don't have a great deal of influence on how we understand that Word. When a church or persons claims that they have all true knowledge of the Word it brings to mind the scriptural equivalent of such groups, the pharisees, scribes, and sadducees. The Word made Man showed that establishment how far from the truth they were. If men were not involved in how the Word is held then there would be one true church here not the multitudes of denominations we see.
    You are getting it Sd,

    Jesus came to this earth , to His people the Jews, those who were in covenant with God (Gentiles were not ever in Covenant with God). BUT the religious, church/temple goers , doctrinally correct, of the the Torah were most all He found those Jews He
    described in the N.T. (White washed tombs, ect
    . Jesus was infuriated with what He found, and promised that His Wrath (Day of the Lord, Second Appearing , Resurrection ect. ) would be poured out upon those men. And it came to pass just as the scripture prophesied in the O.T. ........................

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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    You said all scripture has been fullfilled, it has not, and Christ said of the time and hour no one will know. He gave us things that must take place. And it simply hasn't. And know to your question it hasn't been spread to all people and nations
    3dog, I have already demonstrated from inspired text that John ( the apostle) knew the HOUR. Please read John 2:18

    If you knew the time frame that the N.T. was written that may help you. I will try to briefly explain.

    1. Jesus was on earth during His ministry appox 28-33 AD (there is disagreement on the time so I have offered a buffer).

    2. It is accepted among scholarship that 1,2 and 3rd John were written prior to the destruction of Jerusalem A.D 70.


    John wrote "it is the Last Hour" for a few reasons.....................1. Holy spirit enabled him to write that through inspiration. 2. Jesus had shown him and the other disciples that were present on the mount of olives the signs to look for in Mathew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 in response their to their question
    "what will be the signs of your coming".
    3. Jesus told them He would send the Holy Spirit to guide them into ALL TRUTH............... If you do not know those chapters and verses, please review them before writing such a post.
    Last edited by godsdozer; 05-17-2018 at 10:05 PM.

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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dogdare View Post
    You said all scripture has been fullfilled, it has not, and Christ said of the time and hour no one will know. He gave us things that must take place. And it simply hasn't. And know to your question it hasn't been spread to all people and nations
    I am assuming you meant NO, instead of "know" to my question. Those two words have vastly different meanings.

    I will refer you to Inspired writers who are GREATER THAN ANY COMMENTARTY I MAY HAVE.............. but just so you understand context , context and context. Remember , the time between Jesus' time on earth and the time the N.T. documents were written were from 20-40 years later. That is uncontested for the most part.

    Romans 1:8 Paul the Apostle writes this : "
    First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world"

    Romans 10:18 "But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?”[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did"“Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.

    Colossians 1:23 "
    if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
    "

    3dog, Your disagreement is not with me.................................it seems to be against the inspired writers of the N.T. documents. Every creature under heaven .............................voice has gone into all the earth............................your faith is reported all over the world..........................that seems to cover Jesus' words when He said......................


    WHEN THIS GOSPEL HAS BEEN PROCRAIMED TO ALL THE EARTH.........................THEN THE END WILL COME.


    Are you doubting, Jesus'
    words or the
    Inspired writers ?

    godsdozer did not write the biblical documents

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