FIRST IMPRESSIONS "BF 250"

[GEEBASS2000]

So today I began my break in on my Brand new BF 250. To sum up my overall 1st impression of the BF 250, I would say AWSOME!!!

The 1st 15min of operation require idle or zero speed and from the moment I turned the key I could not believe how quiet of a outboard it is for a 250 at idle. I can only Imagine what a pleasure it will be to idle off shore running my side image with this outboard.

As far as MPG or GPH how ever you like to calculate your fuel consumption all I can say is this is the best I have owned. I have run and owned several brands of out boards and NONE of them are even close to this Honda, it truly sips gas. The consumption was so low I question my gas gauge on this new boat, LOL. When my NMEA get's hooked up soon I can post more accurate fuel numbers.

After I did the first 2 to 3 hours of low speed break in requirements I was able to run it at WOT. What I did was load the boat with as much weight as I could. When I say loaded I mean loaded. Full tank of gas, two guys, every tackle compartment full, 2 10 foot blades, 4 group 29 batteries, tool box, spare prop, spare trolling motor, even drinks in the cooler. The boat is a Phoenix 721 with a ATLAS HYDRO JACK.

Before I went out I called the prop shop that is going to be working my prop for this boat and asked them what stock prop to start with and they recommended a 23 or 24 Tempest. They told me for a Honda they find a Fury is best out of the box, but a Tempest is the better of two after both are worked. So I bought both a 23 and 24 Tempest. They also told me the goal was to hit 6400 rpm's and not to worry about the speed because if I can turn 6400 rpm they could get me 5 mph more. To get accurate rpm data I need to wait a week or so till my NMEA digital tac get's hooked up because I don't believe the analog tac that today said the 24 Tempest was turning 6600 to 6800 RPM. I never tried the 23 and won't till I get my NMEA gets hooked up.

I started the jack plate at 13 which is 2.75 inches below the pad because I was told Honda's like to run high. MAN IS THAT A LIE!!!! I never ran any boat with any outboard ever that ever liked to run lower then 3 inches below the pad, UNTILL TODAY!! When I got a top speed run of 63 to maybe 64 mph at 2.75 below the pad I was very discouraged to say the least. So I did what most would do I went up in fact I went up and up and up and I only lost speed. I was ready to give up and head in on the way back to the ramp I lowered the jack just 1/4 inch lower then I had run it all day and I noticed a speed gain. How could this be I said, I thought that Honda's like to run high??

To make A very long story short I went all the way down to 6 on my gauge = to 4.25 inches below the pad. This is a full inch lower then I had ever run a Mercury and 1.75 inches lower then a Yamaha SHO likes to run on the same boat. MY best speed at this new found low setting with this ultra heavy load was 67.6 MPH!!!! Not bad for the 1st day out, I know that this Honda like all other out boards will "loosen up" after some time giving me 1 to 1.5 mph and I'm sure once I have the prop worked that will give me 3 to 5 mph. There is no doubt in my mind that after some fine tuning I will be able to run OVER 70mph WITH A FULL TOURNAMENT LOAD!!! So much for Honda's being slow.

WHAT A GREAT FIRST DAY!!! I will post updates

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

Mirage worked by Croxton may be the ticket,I have one on my toon with 250 and it lifts really good and speed is very impressive.
One thing I noticed about the Honda is at 6300 it is as smooth as it is at idle .Most of the time I don’t even know Iam turning that many rpm compared to my optimax that sounds like it’s gongi to come apart .

[bassmasterffej]

You are up north aren't you? Cooler air/water temps?

Good for you man!...Glad you like the Honda but the 721 hull is a mid to upper 70s hull with a Pro XS or SHO...

[GEEBASS2000]

You are up north aren't you? Cooler air/water temps?

Good for you man!...Glad you like the Honda but the 721 hull is a mid to upper 70s hull with a Pro XS or SHO...

That is 100% true that a 721 with a SHO with this same load was about a 72mph boat in low temps like now. In the hot humid air like 90deg plus air temps the 721 with a SHO was 69 to 70mph full load. The thing that I find funny is that a lot of guys make it sound like the Honda is so slow but it's not that big of difference if fact I have run many different hull and outboard combinations and I can't see the Honda being less then 5mph off the fastest setup I ever owned.

[bassmasterffej]

There are a lot of variables to consider but from my experience with an X21 aluminium hull...The Honda ran at about 66-67 mph...The 250 SHO was 72-73 mph...The G2 was 75+ (78 best speed)...Flashed the SHO to a 300 and it was 75+ as well. All three motos were either brand new or had less than 25 hours. Various props were tried as well as various prop to pad heights. I liked the motor from a quality standpoint but from a performance standpoint I wouldn't include it in the same league as the Pro XS/SHO/G2.

The 67 mph that you ran this weekend could have been attained by a 225 SHO/225 Pro XS/225 G2 HO with a stock prop on the 721 with the same load...What's the point (from a performance stance) in having a Honda 250 if a 225 Pro XS/SHO/G2 can reach the same speeds?

[GEEBASS2000]

There are a lot of variables to consider but from my experience with an X21 aluminium hull...The Honda ran at about 66-67 mph...The 250 SHO was 72-73 mph...The G2 was 75+ (78 best speed)...Flashed the SHO to a 300 and it was 75+ as well. All three motos were either brand new or had less than 25 hours. Various props were tried as well as various prop to pad heights. I liked the motor from a quality standpoint but from a performance standpoint I wouldn't include it in the same league as the Pro XS/SHO/G2.

The 67 mph that you ran this weekend could have been attained by a 225 SHO/225 Pro XS/225 G2 HO with a stock prop on the 721 with the same load...What's the point (from a performance stance) in having a Honda 250 if a 225 Pro XS/SHO/G2 can reach the same speeds?

For me the point would be that if I can run 70mph with a full load I will take a 5MPH loss in speed over the reliability of the others be it 225 or 250. I personally never had a pro XS powerhead make it to 100 hours. I ran and owned several of them over a 10 year period. The Yamaha SHO was good, but not perfect I had one blow at about 275 hours but that was the only issue in 5 years of running it. My pro xs would have some kind of issue about every two weeks and like I said the powerhead for me would not make it 100 hours. The G2 I'm afraid to buy because I fish some Costa tournaments from time to time and every night they have a line for coils, and I have not fished one Costa that they are not doing at least one powerhead per night. Keep in mind these are guys I know for a fact have outboards that are no more then a few months old.

As far as the speed of 67 to 68 that I got with a full load first time out it's not much different at all from any rig I have run 1st time out. To get to low to mid 70's with and combination I have run it takes 20 to 30 hours of seat time, jack plate and prop work. I have never had a rig that I did not add 5mph or more to my 1st run numbers. With that being said no way do I see this boat not running 70mph+ with a full tournament load. Now I find when guys tell me they are pushing speeds over 73mph I get in their boat and their definition of full load is way different then mine. They have 7lbs of Ice I have 21lbs, they have one trolling motor I have two"89 lbs alone", they carry 1 prop I have a spare, they have a few tools I have a full tool box, you get the point I carry 250lbs more then the average guy so it's like running with 3 passengers.

[bassmasterffej]

You have had some really bad luck with motors...I've had 4 Pro XS motors...1 SHO...1 Honda...3 G2 motors...No major issues with any of them...In fact, the only issue I have ever had with any of them was a compressor failure on one of the Pro XS motors that had over 300 hours on it. The SHO I didn't have very long but I have well over 100+ hours on the G2s...No issues at all with the motors...

With what you are describing as a full load you are doing good to get 67-68 mph with the Honda...I don't see you getting much more than that regardless of seat time and prop work...

My next motor will be the new Mercury V8 250 that will be officially announced in May...I'll wait a couple of years to let them work the bugs out but that thing is going to be a beast if the rumors are true.

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

It’s funny when a motor is expected to have problems at 200-300 hours ,in my book 1500-2000 would be a good starting point.Heck if my car motor had problems every 200-300 hours it would be in the shop every 2 days.

[DougH]

One problem with Honda's is that most dealers do not know how to properly set them up. They are different but once you get it all worked out it's great. HondaRay got mine straightened out but it took some work as no one had ever worked on the Honda/Sprint combination. Newer hulls and boats that are still in production they knew how to set them up. I don't see me ever having to buy another motor.

[Hickory Legend]

The big question is, Do you want to spend 15K on a motor and have to worry about it lasting and maintenance or do you want to go fishing and be trouble free!!!

Most dealers don't carry Honda because there is not follow on maintenance and thus not much money to be made.

Pros and Cons to this, most problems can be solved with DIY maintenance and internet info, Cons is when you do have something that we can't help you with, finding a dealer that knows and is close by to help you out.

Yet I know of several dealers of other brands that can't fix their motors because they just replace parts and don't know how to fix the engines. Mean while your boat is setting in a shop for days on end.

This is why is went with a Honda is 2004 and have been running them ever since.

I have had two issues, one was a bad spark plug, the other was a pinched fuel line when ever I turn left, then engine would cut out. Yes Now I swap boats ever year and know of where they are all and duffy is the only one that I know of that has had issue and you can follow it on here.

[bassmasterffej]

No one said it was acceptable to have issues at 200-300 hours but most bass tournament guys don't keep their boats long enough to put 1500-2000 hours on the motor...I have an 18 model Suzuki 90 on my pontoon and if I was a salt water guy I'd have a Suzuki on that rig as well...The fact of the matter is that most bass tournament guys do care about performance and that is one of the main reasons that Honda still lags behind the others in that market...A good portion of the content on BBC is directly related to bass boat performance.

[Snoopy Rod]

sounds like you might be on to something. Good to see someone on here can get these Hondas running.

[GEEBASS2000]

Weather so bad in upstate NY I have only been out the one time with my new Phoenix 721 with the Honda 250. With having my boat trapped in the barn today due to the wonderful rain snow mix I did some more research on setting up my new rig.

The one thing I can not figure out is that the few people that I have talked to, tell me that the BF 250 likes to run high rpm's like 6300 to 6400 and that it won't put out 250hp at lower rpm's and that is why they run small pitch props like 23 and 24. However Honda Marine clearly states that the BF 250 will put out 250HP at 5800 rpm. Why would we not run normal 25 or 26 pitch props?? Hoping one of you guys can explain why??

[Hickory Legend]

How many Formulas for speed includes HP?
Its all about RPM and prop pitch, and slip.
With the Honda 2/1 ratio compared with a Mere 1.67/1 you need to turn the 6400 rpm vs the 5700 rpm to pull the same speed. Not sure what the RPM is on the Merc its just a reference number. but its all RPM and Pitch. HP/torque is on the hole shot for the most part

The higher setting on the engine allows for higher RPMs, raising the motor allows you to get higher RPM, thus more speed.

Once you get to around 100 hours you can run synthetic oil witch allows you to turn more RPM also and helps the speed.

[GEEBASS2000]

How many Formulas for speed includes HP?
Its all about RPM and prop pitch, and slip.
With the Honda 2/1 ratio compared with a Mere 1.67/1 you need to turn the 6400 rpm vs the 5700 rpm to pull the same speed. Not sure what the RPM is on the Merc its just a reference number. but its all RPM and Pitch. HP/torque is on the hole shot for the most part

The higher setting on the engine allows for higher RPMs, raising the motor allows you to get higher RPM, thus more speed.

Once you get to around 100 hours you can run synthetic oil witch allows you to turn more RPM also and helps the speed.

Thank you for the information. I guess what I'm getting at is if I'm turning a 24 with ease would it not be a net gain to give up 200 rpm's to go to a 25? The 24 Jumps on plain with a very heavy load.

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

Every prop is different a power tech vmx or turbo txp are very stiff 25 more like a 26-27 compared to a tempest.Its all about lifting the boat to reduce drag .Some hulls have it built in and some hulls need the prop to help.If you can turn a 25 tempest at 62-6300 you will be moving as long as the slip numbers are low6-10 percent is good.I would think a worked tempest by Croxton would be the prop ,but a worked 24 may also put you in the sweet spot.Idon’t see why you can’t run low to mid 70s with the right setup.

[bassmasterffej]

Mid 70s with a Honda and his heavy load out? Come on man...

[GEEBASS2000]

Mid 70s with a Honda and his heavy load out? Come on man...

I will post updates as I go, but I agree. I don't see me getting to mid 70's with a full load regardless of temps or humidity. I do think that with all the weight I could put in her I will get it to 70 to 72 with a worked prop and a accurate TAC.

If I do get to low 70's with this hull I have to say the point is the Honda's are more like 2 to 3 mph slower then the rest, not the 5 to 8 mph less then the rest that most guys said it would be. Like I mentioned above any time I'm in a guys boat that shows me how he get 's over 75 mph out of it I find his definition of a full load is far from mine in most cases over 250 less lbs. less.

When you know you have a big check coming and all you have to do is make it to the weigh in the reliability means a lot. Trust me one very popular brand of outboard in particular has cost me a lot of cash over the years.

[bassmasterffej]

If you run 70 with two guys and the load you described you will be doing great with the Honda...The Honda pros aren't even hitting 70 with two guys and a tournament load...You can try sending them facebook messages...Some of them have been/are running faster hulls than you are also.

[TOUCH OF CLASS]

If a Allison can hit 70s with a 150/175 a 250 Honda on a ally should be a 70 plus boat with awesome gas mpg.