Marine Master Trailer Issues

[dhuggins]

Guys looking for some advice..I am having some issues with a 2016 Marine Marine Master Trailer tandem axle under a Phoenix 920 ProXP that has been going on for about 6 months. I got this boat from a really good friend and it has had some miles on it but taken care of. I first noticed my brakes getting hot coming down a hill on my way home. When I got to the bottom of the hill I just so happen to look in the mirror and they were literally smoking. So I took it easy and got home. Upon inspection I believe the hub was so hot that it was burping grease out the backside of the seal. I'm pretty sure the smoke I was seeing was the grease being thrown on that super hot hub. So I checked everything out and noticed the master cylinder had some wear on it and I attributed it to this. (I also checked the break away tongue to make sure the main line wasnt pinched) Since I am the way I am I figured I would go ahead and order everything and completely repack and rebuild the hubs/brakes while I was it so I ordered a complete new inner member(master cylinder), new seals and bearings along with UFP Vault grease, brake pads, and vault grease caps as well.
Got those parts in broke down the wheels/hubs and replaced the bearings and pads. Re-greased the bearings/hubs filled the caps up to the ring put a bead of red loctite on the caps and hammered those back on. Installed the new inner member/reverse solenoid, dropped the nose of the trailer and power bled the brakes at the left rear bleeder screw at 15 psi. After a couple minutes brake fluid flowed out the screw perfectly clear no bubbles so I tightened her up and topped off the reservoir. Jacked each tire up to make sure the calipers weren't dragging and both wheels spun freely and its ready to go. Or so I thought.....

After a few times out I check to make sure the wheels are good and notice the brakes/hubs are hot. When I inspect it I notice there is grease that has been thrown out the back of both hubs once again. The grease was building up in the calipers and being thrown all on the inside of the wheel on both sides. So I said the calipers are sticking.. mad at myself I said why didn't i just go ahead and order two new calipers and replace those while I was down there. So ordered 2 new seals and new calipers. When those came in I broke everything down once again and installed them all. Re-greased, re-bled and good to go.

So take the boat out a few more times and notice once again the damn hubs are getting hot. They had grease thrown up everywhere and inside the wheels AGAIN. So I said I'll fix this. I ordered new hubs, seals, and bearings. I then completely removed all the calipers and brakes. Installed the new hubs bearings re-greased and put the caps on. I told myself get hot now without brakes.

Well here I am today after 1 trip with the new hubs and no brakes and the hubs are still throwing grease out the rear seal. I am convinced that there is something fundamentally wrong with this axle and I do not know where to go from here. I live in Arkansas and if I could I would drive this trailer directly to marine master and see if they could fix it. I kept ordering parts because I told myself that they had gotten so hot that it probably ruined the bearings and this is the last thing it could possibly be so this should fix it. Honestly, there isn't a lot to surge trailer brakes and it's not rocket science. I prefer to fix things myself to make sure things are done right. I have all new parts on the trailer and the rear seals WILL not hold the grease in. (yes I am sure they are all the correct part number because I ordered them per the manual linking to my trailer weight rating and axle size).

Things to note:
1. The seals were correctly seated and flush to the lip of the hub with a bead of red loctite.
2. The bearings were greased and caps filled according to UFP specs.
3. The spindle nut was tightened down to seat the bearings then backed off and hand tighten and there was no play when pulling on the hub.

I personally think there are some tolerances off and when the grease gets warms and thins out it immediately leaks around the seals. So if anyone has any ideas please help.

[brucekgreen]

Talk to your good friend you bought it from to see if he had problems with it. I know you realize this but for some reason the brakes are not releasing for some reason You said you replace the master cyclinder i gather you have surge brakes. something is not letting the fluid released back to the MC which is why your brakes get hot. You flex could be the problem lets fluid in but not out

[dhuggins]

I checked the brake line if that's what you are referring to. The brakes are no longer a factor since I have removed them.

[DABS]

Since all of your troubles seem to originate with hot brakes, I would check the trailer tongue and be sure it is the optimal height of 1" above level. Check the swing tongue hose to be sure it has no resistance when blowing from either direction. When the brakes are dragging, do they free up when you shift into reverse? When you replaced the seals, did you also change out the L-rings that the seals run on? When the trailer is parked is the actuator pulled all the way forward every time?

[DABS]

if you removed the brakes and they still leak Vault, change the L- ring

[dhuggins]

I have all new brake lines Marine Master sent me since that was the last thing in the system it could be. I have now since removed the brakes for the time being to get the issue with the seals resolved. From what i gather the seal is all one part. It has a double lip seal that is supposed to keep water from coming in and of course grease from escaping.

[brucekgreen]

OK up your liability insurance and get ready to get new brakes for your truck

[Fidgetcranker]

Sorry about your trailer.
I have nothing to add except...I wish I had your patience. ...and skills.
Hope you get it right soon! Good luck!

[dhuggins]

Ok hammer..i removed them to address one issue at a time. It is only temporary not permanent. I posted for help not snarky replies.

Thanks fidget..its been a pain definitely

[DABS]

The double lip seal runs on a stainless sleeve called an L-ring,.. change them

[dhuggins]

Dabs I honestly wasn't aware of this as I can't find it in online..do you by chance have a part number?

[dhuggins]

Screenshot_20180114-131408.jpg
Is this it?

[Bamaman]

It is unclear, it are you hand packing the brakes or are you injecting grease through a zerk fitting (aka bearing buddy)?

Lippert has had serious issues on travel trailers and fifth wheel RV axles throwing grease out the seal and contaminating the brake shoes. A 40 foot trailer going down a steep hill with no working brakes is a real serious hazard.

Come to find out, Lippert was using cheap Chinese seals instead of spending another $3 per axle for high quality seals. Then they were using an injectable thin bearing grease that was more like 90 weight oil to save on labor. And they were injecting too much grease causing grease to bypass the seals.

Hundreds and hundreds of RVs had/have the problem (including me). The fix is to replace the brake units, install high quality seals and hand pack the bearings with thick, sticky axle grease like Lucas Red axle grease.

I don't know if any of this applies to your situation but those with RVs need to watch for oil on the back sides of their trailer wheels.

[dhuggins]

These are vault hubs from UFP. Th grease is injected through a zerk fitting that screws into the end of the spindle. You fill that up until grease comes around the bearings. Remove the fitting. Fill up the cap to the collar. Apply red loctite on the exterior of the cap and hammer on the cap.

It appears I may have been replacing these in vain and that I missed one more crucial part. Thanks to Dabs I think I may have found my issue! I was convinced the diameter of the spindle was not correct but instead the wear ring was probably worn down just enough to not create a good enough seal with the rear seal of the hub. So when the grease would heat up and flow a little more it was enough to run out the seal...

[DABS]

Call me tomorrow and I will send some to you along with the O-rings and new seals. Should solve your problem.

[DABS]

sorry Dustin, 931-967-5101 x 25016

[dhuggins]

Yes sir I will do! I cannot believe I missed that wear sleeve. To the untrained eye that looks like it is all one piece and just how the spindle is made..I am kicking myself in the butt.

[Bob G.]

Screenshot_20180114-131408.jpg
Is this it?

Yes, correct part number for the SS Wear Rings. Install with Permatex Red RTV. I have a piece of pipe, a coupler, pipe cap and an old inner bearing with the cage and bearings removed that I use to install the SS wear rings. It's a little overkill for installing the thin wear ring, but after converting my oil bath hubs to grease, it make it easy to get them seated the first try.

I posted on your tread in the Trailer forum.

O-ring for the SS Wear Ring is 32736.

[DABS]

Not to worry... we will get you fixed up!!

[ViperBass]

Dustin, I had the same problems that you have. The marina changed out everything including the wear ring several times this past summer. They could not fix them. Put everything new back in and used regular grease and bearing buddy and has been good so far. The marina is a Phoenix dealer, they couldn't figure it out