Results 1 to 11 of 11
  1. #1
    Member dhuggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Russellville, AR
    Posts
    84

    Marine Master Trailer

    Guys looking for some advice..I am having some issues with a 2016 Marine Marine Master Trailer tandem axle under a Phoenix 920 ProXP that has been going on for about 6 months. I got this boat from a really good friend and it has had some miles on it but taken care of. I first noticed my brakes getting hot coming down a hill on my way home. When I got to the bottom of the hill I just so happen to look in the mirror and they were literally smoking. So I took it easy and got home. Upon inspection I believe the hub was so hot that it was burping grease out the backside of the seal. I'm pretty sure the smoke I was seeing was the grease being thrown on that super hot hub. So I checked everything out and noticed the master cylinder had some wear on it and I attributed it to this. (I also checked the break away tongue to make sure the main line wasnt pinched) Since I am the way I am I figured I would go ahead and order everything and completely repack and rebuild the hubs/brakes while I was it so I ordered a complete new inner member(master cylinder), new seals and bearings along with UFP Vault grease, brake pads, and vault grease caps as well.
    Got those parts in broke down the wheels/hubs and replaced the bearings and pads. Re-greased the bearings/hubs filled the caps up to the ring put a bead of red loctite on the caps and hammered those back on. Installed the new inner member/reverse solenoid, dropped the nose of the trailer and power bled the brakes at the left rear bleeder screw at 15 psi. After a couple minutes brake fluid flowed out the screw perfectly clear no bubbles so I tightened her up and topped off the reservoir. Jacked each tire up to make sure the calipers weren't dragging and both wheels spun freely and its ready to go. Or so I thought.....

    After a few times out I check to make sure the wheels are good and notice the brakes/hubs are hot. When I inspect it I notice there is grease that has been thrown out the back of both hubs once again. The grease was building up in the calipers and being thrown all on the inside of the wheel on both sides. So I said the calipers are sticking.. mad at myself I said why didn't i just go ahead and order two new calipers and replace those while I was down there. So ordered 2 new seals and new calipers. When those came in I broke everything down once again and installed them all. Re-greased, re-bled and good to go.

    So take the boat out a few more times and notice once again the damn hubs are getting hot. They had grease thrown up everywhere and inside the wheels AGAIN. So I said I'll fix this. I ordered new hubs, seals, and bearings. I then completely removed all the calipers and brakes. Installed the new hubs bearings re-greased and put the caps on. I told myself get hot now without brakes.

    Well here I am today after 1 trip with the new hubs and no brakes and the hubs are still throwing grease out the rear seal. I am convinced that there is something fundamentally wrong with this axle and I do not know where to go from here. I live in Arkansas and if I could I would drive this trailer directly to marine master and see if they could fix it. I kept ordering parts because I told myself that they had gotten so hot that it probably ruined the bearings and this is the last thing it could possibly be so this should fix it. Honestly, there isn't a lot to surge trailer brakes and it's not rocket science. I prefer to fix things myself to make sure things are done right. I have all new parts on the trailer and the rear seals WILL not hold the grease in. (yes I am sure they are all the correct part number because I ordered them per the manual linking to my trailer weight rating and axle size).

    Things to note:
    1. The seals were correctly seated and flush to the exterior of the hub.
    2. The bearings were greased and caps filled according to UFP specs.
    3. The spindle nut was tightened down to seat the bearings then backed off and hand tighten and there was no play when pulling on the hub.

    I personally think there are some tolerances off and when the grease gets warms and thins out it immediately leaks around the seals. So if anyone has any ideas please help.
    Last edited by dhuggins; 01-14-2018 at 12:25 PM.

  2.  
  3. Member dhuggins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Russellville, AR
    Posts
    84
    #2
    Please delete I am moving this to the Phoenix Boats page.

  4. Member Bob G.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    3,768
    #3
    You should keep this post here as it pertains to trailers.

    What condition are the wear rings? Are you using the correct seal (OD x ID) for the spindle?
    2006 Triton TR-21 XD, Mercury 225 Pro XS
    Sponsored by my paycheck, every 2 weeks!

  5. Member Jeff Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Alliance, Ohio
    Posts
    20,228
    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob G. View Post
    You should keep this post here as it pertains to trailers.

    What condition are the wear rings? Are you using the correct seal (OD x ID) for the spindle?
    THIS^^^. Plus, Rule #1 when towing with surge brakes is DO NOT BRAKE while going downhill. When you do so, the trailer moves forward and applies the brakes. Then, even when you let your foot off of the brake, the brakes drag all the way down the hill. If you must brake when going down hill, when you take your foot off the brake and put it on the accelerator, always give the gas a good punch to pull the tongue of the trailer back out and release the brakes. Also, make sure that when you unhook the boat from your truck, always make sure that the tongue is pulled all the way out. Finally, once you hook up to the truck for a trip, always reach under the trailer tongue and make push on the little brake release lever to make sure it is free.
    Half the world's problems are caused by people not doing their jobs and the other half are caused by people minding someone else's business.

  6. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    murray ky, ky lake
    Posts
    4,861
    #5
    Let me know if you need part nu. I also have utube videos on marine master trailer brakes, bearings, o rings, seals, wear sleeves, calipers, how to put grease in and pressurize hubs. I went thro bout everywhere to find right parts without much help. Let me know if I can help.

  7. Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Iowa
    Posts
    645
    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hahn View Post
    THIS^^^. Plus, Rule #1 when towing with surge brakes is DO NOT BRAKE while going downhill. When you do so, the trailer moves forward and applies the brakes. Then, even when you let your foot off of the brake, the brakes drag all the way down the hill. If you must brake when going down hill, when you take your foot off the brake and put it on the accelerator, always give the gas a good punch to pull the tongue of the trailer back out and release the brakes. Also, make sure that when you unhook the boat from your truck, always make sure that the tongue is pulled all the way out. Finally, once you hook up to the truck for a trip, always reach under the trailer tongue and make push on the little brake release lever to make sure it is free.
    This makes zero sense, if your brakes are going to drag going down a hill because you used them, then they will pull it right back out if the tow vehicle is going forward.

  8. Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Muscle Shoals, Alabama-Wilson Lake
    Posts
    9,057
    #7
    I have a fifth wheel trailer with Lippert axles. A huge number of travel trailers and fifth wheels at equipped with Lippert brakes. A serious problem is they use a very thin injected axle grease and it seeps out cheap Chinese rear seals--contaminating the brake shoes. People are towing 14,000 lb. RVs with greasy brakes that don't work--a serious safety issue.

    The fix is to install all new brake components (in a kit) and high quality seals. Then the wheel bearings are hand greased with sticky red wheel grease like Lucas which is available at Walmart. I understand Lippert is still injecting grease, but they did an engineering study to find out the exact volume to inject where it won't squeeze thru the seals.

    I don't know if this is your problem, but everyone with a trailer with brakes needs to be aware of such a problem.

  9. Member Jeff Hahn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Alliance, Ohio
    Posts
    20,228
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffjoldersma View Post
    This makes zero sense, if your brakes are going to drag going down a hill because you used them, then they will pull it right back out if the tow vehicle is going forward.
    What I said is based on what Ranger told us on a plant tour and my experience and that of friends towing through the mountains of WVa.
    Half the world's problems are caused by people not doing their jobs and the other half are caused by people minding someone else's business.

  10. Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    Western Iowa
    Posts
    645
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Hahn View Post
    What I said is based on what Ranger told us on a plant tour and my experience and that of friends towing through the mountains of WVa.

    How does that make any sense to you at all? IF the trailer brakes are "on" the trailer WILL slow down and pull away from the tow rig, think about..............

  11. Member rocket man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    chgo hts Il
    Posts
    1,850
    #10
    What they are saying is, when going down hill the tongue is depressed from the trailer pushing it. When you get on level ground the truck is pulling the trailer so the tongue is extended releasing the brakes.

  12. Member mlh1955's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Hazard
    Posts
    1,078
    #11
    You have to pump the brakes to allow them to cool. If you ride the brakes they will over heat every time. I learned the hard way. If it only happens on your driveway, lock the brakes out at the top of the hill.