PS22 vs PS30

[LWINCHESTER2]

Most of this you'll just have to take my word for it as I don't have much in the line of screenshots. I was comparing the PS22 mounted horizontal for DownVu Live with the PS30. I had spark plugs on fishing line hanging under a chlorox jug then I would move away to see how far I could pick them up. The absolute best on the PS22 was 45 ft and I did get a shot of that. The best on the PS30 was 60 ft. No screenshots. This is not as good as I got on a different trip. I was able to get 80 ft that time. Not today. I could have probably gotten that today if I had changed the gain to High and used 40 degrees. Today I used Auto Medium on both. If you've ever used a 7610 with Panoptix and tried to get good screenshots of a live screen with how long you have to hold the HOME key down before you get the screenshot, then you know the difficulty. By the time you get the screenshot the screen has changed.

[Treeguyus]

Here are some PS-30 shots

[DonnieG]

I personally think, after seeing Leonard's test, the PS-30 is much better.....I was always satisfied with my PS-30, just wasn't for my type of fishing..The PS-21 was a wash out for me..

[Astrochris]

Well that's a little disappointing... if the PS22 dosen't see a hard target like a spark-plug further than 45' down, there is no chance it will see my 1/4oz jig at 80'.
The specs PS30 and PS22 both say 300' down, PS30 144W PS22 44W, is that the main difference??

Thanks

[MikeF]

LWinchester2

Does the PS22 have the same transducer adjustment capabilities as the PS30?

Such as the adjustable transducer beam width and the adjustable front/rear angle.

Possible the weak PS22 signal is due to objects at edge of the signal?

[MikeF]

OOpps
duplicate post

[LWINCHESTER2]

if the PS22 dosen't see a hard target like a spark-plug further than 45' down, there is no chance it will see my 1/4oz jig at 80'

The deepest target was 105 ft which I did see at times. That was not what I was trying to measure though. What I tried to determine was how far to the side could I see targets. The transducers are both pointed down. When used like a PS21 with LiveVu Forward software I could see these same targets 160 feet away, just like the PS21 and PS31. I posted about them. Later I did the same thing with the PS22 but I didn't do any screenshots. I just wanted to know if the PS22 used like a PS21 gave similar performance and it did.

http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=849428&page=2

Does the PS22 have the same transducer adjustment capabilities as the PS30?

No. It has a 20 degree cone. The PS30 is adjustable 10,20 or 40.
And the transmit angle on the PS22 is not adjustable

Possible the weak PS22 signal is due to objects at edge of the signal?

I don't think so. The PS22 was on the trolling motor so I could and did swing it back and forth to try to find the sweet spot. Thats' why I was able to get screen shots. I could keep it target on the screen. The PS30 was on the transom with the boat moving at various distances from the target to the side.


The point to this test was not to establish the capabilities of the PS22. Had that been my purpose I would have done more and different things. It was to compare the PS22 to the PS30 and try to do it apples to apples. Since the PS22 has a 20 degree cone, that's what I set the PS30 to. Both had the gain set to Auto Medium. Both will pick up farther with the gain adjusted.


I am still impressed with the PS22. I don't think I have mentioned it previously, but I did do another test using the PS22 like a PS21. I found it to be equivalent and both would "see" as far as the PS31. This was a real surprise to me. I didn't expect that. After having used both the PS30 and the PS22 LiveVu Down I felt like I had already noticed that used in this way the PS22 did not have the same range as the PS30 when both were set to the same settings. I practically never set the gain to Auto High. In the water I fish the screen just gets too messy for my liking on high. However, there is no question that the range of both is extended when the gain is on high.

The bottom lines for me on the PS22 are this.
When the PS22 is used like a PS21 or PS31 the performance is similar.
When the PS22 is used like a PS30, IMO the PS30 is better.

These kinds of tests are not hard to do. Pretty simple to hang some spark plugs under a chlorox jug and then get back to try to see them. A different day, different water temp, different water - you might get different results. Try it and post the results.

[hays47]

Was out on the ice yesterday. Was not a good fishing day so played with the PS 21. I was only in 7 foot of water so pretty limited feedback. If I fished close enough to the PS 21 really no need for 2D. Was kinda neat watching fish I released dive straight down. All small bluegills. Had tiny minnow on 1/64 oz jig. Had no trouble telling difference between fish and the jig/minnow combo.

Had a couple tipups scattered about. Larger minnows on them. Maybe 20 foot away I could see my minnow swimming on the hook. Different way of checking tip ups or "lazy mans way ". Remembered somebody asked about pointing the PS21 straight down. I tried it and could not see much difference from being slightly tilted. Maybe because of weeds ?

This was on small pond. Want to experiment in deeper water on lake soon as I can sneak out again.
,

[Schins]

LWIN, for comparison how do you think a similar-cone-angle 2d xdcr would have fared in this test?

[LWINCHESTER2]

LWIN, for comparison how do you think a similar-cone-angle 2d xdcr would have fared in this test?

2D wouldn't have shown a thing. The PS22 is 20 degrees in one direction, 100 degrees in the other. A 2D is a 20 degree circle. See the attachment.

THE Panoptix advantage is that within its cone you know the distance, direction and depth of targets. On 2D all you know is that it is somewhere within the cone, when it's in the cone.

[Schins]

Ok, now i'm confused

If they're both a 20deg cone how can they be different? I can see the 2D's disadvantage in that you dont know where within the cone an object is. Whereas Panoptix you do.

But it should still show up in 2D, yes?

In your example pic, how can Panoptix have the white-line cone if it's still only rated at 20deg?

[LWINCHESTER2]

It's not 20 degrees ONLY!!. Your 2d is 20 degrees, round cone, ONLY. The Panoptix cone of view is not round. On the DownVu Live, it's 20 degrees front to back, 100 degrees left to right.

You should see from the graphic that the two strong returns 38 ft to the left of the boat; one 65 ft deep and the other 95 ft deep are totally outside the 20 degree 2d round cone. But the LiveVu Down is 100 degrees wide and so picks them up and shows where they are, and how deep they are.

Now I'll make it worse. If instead of a 20 degree 2d cone you were using a 60 degree 2d cone, that might pick them up. And where would they show on screen; at 65 ft or 75 ft?

[Schins]

Ahh, see ive never got an answer on this before: the Panoptix cone is more of a fan than a round cone. A wide fan.

Now I wonder if you attached a Quadrabeam to a rotating stick if it would pick up objects (in the 455 side beams) as it's rotated?

[Schins]

Now I'll make it worse. If instead of a 20 degree 2d cone you were using a 60 degree 2d cone, that might pick them up. And where would they show on screen; at 65 ft or 75 ft?

75ft

[LWINCHESTER2]

Ahh, see ive never got an answer on this before: the Panoptix cone is more of a fan than a round cone. A wide fan.

Now I wonder if you attached a Quadrabeam to a rotating stick if it would pick up objects (in the 455 side beams) as it's rotated?

Now we are getting into a whole another world of confusion. There were two versions of the Quadrabeam. I used both. I don't remember the exact cone angles of the side beams or their tilt from horizontal. The idea of QB and side imaging in general is that the left element shows stuff on the left side of the boat and the right element shows things on the right side of the boat. That is only true sometimes. Then it was explained that when something showed in both beams that it was actually under the boat instead of to one side or the other. Hogwash. What happens is that the elements are pinging at the same time and very often both elements pick up and display returns from both. Back in the day.... I posted a question on an Hbird board asking why when I went by a sheer rock cliff 50 ft away on the left and wide open deep water on the right.... Why did the rock cliff show up 50 ft away on the right too? Never got much of an answer. Saw the same thing when I did a test on the Lowrance LSS1 showing a floating tree with unusual limbs 20 ft to the right side of the boat and on screen that floating tree with the same exact unusual limbs showed up on both the left and right StructureScan views. That's the confusion I was referring to. When something does just show up on one side of the screen, you can figure that it is on that side of the boat. But if it shows it at 30 ft, it might be floating at 30 ft, on a 45 at 30 ft, or almost straight down at 30 ft. The QB was better than that because its cone was not as wide top to bottom as the side imaging elements. Try motoring slowing through an area in the fall with leaves floating all over the surface. Practically useless. The Panoptix DownVu Live is perfect in those situations. What's on the surface, shows on the surface. What's deep...shows deep and accurately left or right.

I rambled too much in this post and mixed comments about QB and side imaging. The QB didn't show objects on the surface or directly under the boat, but the side elements did pick up from each other confusing what side something might be on.

[MikeF]

I rambled too much in this post

Ramble away anytime the mood strikes.
I like ramble.
Makes me think.
Ramble sometimes helps my dim bulb to glow brighter.
Ramble sometimes causes me to spend money though! LOL

[Schins]

Agree with MikeF.....keep it coming!

I don't want to venture too far off the original subject, but I guess it's kinda relative to how Panoptix works. So with that, is it possible the double images were from sound waves echoing off objects back past the ducer and being picked up on the other side? Or like you said everything pinging at the same time and the head unit is choosing to enhance the stronger side?

Its fascinating how Panoptix is so different from a regular transducer, and I have a lot more to learn about it.

[rnvinc]

Now we are getting into a whole another world of confusion. There were two versions of the Quadrabeam. I used both. I don't remember the exact cone angles of the side beams or their tilt from horizontal. The idea of QB and side imaging in general is that the left element shows stuff on the left side of the boat and the right element shows things on the right side of the boat. That is only true sometimes. Then it was explained that when something showed in both beams that it was actually under the boat instead of to one side or the other. Hogwash. What happens is that the elements are pinging at the same time and very often both elements pick up and display returns from both. Back in the day.... I posted a question on an Hbird board asking why when I went by a sheer rock cliff 50 ft away on the left and wide open deep water on the right.... Why did the rock cliff show up 50 ft away on the right too? Never got much of an answer. Saw the same thing when I did a test on the Lowrance LSS1 showing a floating tree with unusual limbs 20 ft to the right side of the boat and on screen that floating tree with the same exact unusual limbs showed up on both the left and right StructureScan views. That's the confusion I was referring to. When something does just show up on one side of the screen, you can figure that it is on that side of the boat. But if it shows it at 30 ft, it might be floating at 30 ft, on a 45 at 30 ft, or almost straight down at 30 ft. The QB was better than that because its cone was not as wide top to bottom as the side imaging elements. Try motoring slowing through an area in the fall with leaves floating all over the surface. Practically useless. The Panoptix DownVu Live is perfect in those situations. What's on the surface, shows on the surface. What's deep...shows deep and accurately left or right.

I rambled too much in this post and mixed comments about QB and side imaging. The QB didn't show objects on the surface or directly under the boat, but the side elements did pick up from each other confusing what side something might be on.

My apologies beforehand of adding HB info in a Garmin thread ...

But here's the HB diagram for Quadrabeam that may help Leonard's explanation of his experience with Quadrabeam ... and how it differs from Panoptix ...



Rickie

[Astrochris]

Keep it coming LW..
This info is gold LW,,,,, gold!!! (Seinfeld fans will get it)

C//

Fish on!!!

[kojimep]

For the PS22 in Down Vu Live, do you need to rotate the transducer around the shaft to get the 100 degree left/right, and 20 degree front/back? Or do you just need to point it down?