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  1. #1
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    Power Cut Off Switch Ideas?

    In an earlier post I seen a suggestion for using a power relay as the battery cut off switch for the Talons.
    I have thought about it and if I could find a high amp relay with a very low operating current draw I would be interested in using the relay instead of a manual switch or lever.
    If you have Battery Cut Off Switch for your Talons could you show a picture or a link to what you are using?
    Thanks for your time
    Have yourself a most amazing NewYear

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    #2
    I'm going to do the same thing when I install my talons. I'm going to install a off + on switch.

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    #3
    A relay has no power draw... In simple terms its a switch that is activated by 12 volts. Basically you mount it next to the battery, run direct 12 to it, run a small wire from your power on the console switch to it and that turns it on. That way your talon is only getting power when that main switch is on.

    Youll still want to run a wire back from the key to the talons green wire for the ignition warning thats built into the talons.

    I use a lot of relays, on my rock crawler etc. Im thinking of trying these... I like the idea of the built in fuse to clean things up. Ive never seen them before they would have been nice on my crawler.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-30A-...tZxdKL&vxp=mtr

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    #4
    I bought this (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

    Haven't mounted it yet (nor the Talon). Waiting until it gets above 10* outside!

  5. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #5
    I have two Talons and both are wired to a disconnect. The power rating for this switch is more than enough...https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Batter...solator+Switch

  6. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #6
    What a coincidence...you posted at 9:49 and I posted the same switch at 9:50

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    I have two Talons and both are wired to a disconnect. The power rating for this switch is more than enough...https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Batter...solator+Switch
    Why didnt you just use the master disconnect in the boat already then?

    The point behind a relay is that you install it and NEVER have to turn it on or off ever again if you install it powered as Ive posted.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    What a coincidence...you posted at 9:49 and I posted the same switch at 9:50
    Like minds!

  9. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffjoldersma View Post
    Why didnt you just use the master disconnect in the boat already then?

    The point behind a relay is that you install it and NEVER have to turn it on or off ever again if you install it powered as Ive posted.
    I did not have a master disconnect in my bilge area. From my battery to my console is only protected by a breaker. The relay you posted will work just as you described. As for me I had rather manually turn on a switch because relays have the potential to stick whereas with a manual discontent the possibility of being stuck is eliminated. A relay is less work involved to turn on but a disconnect is more reliable in the long run. In this case either will work its just a preference as to what you want.

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    #10
    Relays stick?

    Every car out there has at least 6 of them or more, the fuel pump and headlights on every fuel injected car are two common uses, plus many more per car.

    Them sticking is far less common then boats sinking! Or being struck by lightening.

  11. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #11
    Its not very common but in the line of work I do (Industrial Maintenance) I have had replaced a couple bad relays over the years. Again it is not common but it is possible for them to stick or go bad. I like what I call the KIS method. Keep It Simple. Again there is nothing wrong with your method because it will work and I am not saying it is complicated I jut mean a disconnect is more simple to wire and less prone to fail. I have never seen a boat with a relay that turns on/off power to shallow water anchors. I know its possible but a disconnect is what the overwhelming majority use. and to you.

  12. Member 06 SB's Avatar
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    #12
    This what I use for my dual power poles. They are a combination switch/breaker and come in many amperages.

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    Its not very common but in the line of work I do (Industrial Maintenance) I have had replaced a couple bad relays over the years. Again it is not common but it is possible for them to stick or go bad. I like what I call the KIS method. Keep It Simple. Again there is nothing wrong with your method because it will work and I am not saying it is complicated I jut mean a disconnect is more simple to wire and less prone to fail. I have never seen a boat with a relay that turns on/off power to shallow water anchors. I know its possible but a disconnect is what the overwhelming majority use. and to you.
    10-4 most boats have relays all over them already. FYI.

  14. #14
    In an earlier post on talons, I mentioned putting switches in the line to the talons. I was thinking of putting the switches in the back near the vents to the rear compartment. Reason for waterproof switches where I could turn them on when I remove the motor toter, and hold down straps. Why use a relay that you have to get in the boat, and turn on the key to use.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Fishead1167 View Post
    In an earlier post on talons, I mentioned putting switches in the line to the talons. I was thinking of putting the switches in the back near the vents to the rear compartment. Reason for waterproof switches where I could turn them on when I remove the motor toter, and hold down straps. Why use a relay that you have to get in the boat, and turn on the key to use.
    You must have a center console if you need to get in your boat to turn on your electronics.

    The relay isnt connected to the key, they key would be only powered when the big engine is running so that would be pretty worthless for electronics and talons etc.

    Its powered by your electronics on off master switch. Maybe you guys dont have one and thats why your adding one?

    My boat has a master on off in the batt area, which Ive never touched. It the big dial type like people are saying they added here. Most boats already have that for a main disconnect near the battery.

    Then up by the console it has a electronics ON switch which powers a few relays which send power to a fuse panel, which has fuses for my fish finders x4, 360, hydrowave, ultrex direction puck. This switch I turn on when I go fishing... off after I power down the hummingbirds. I dont have to get in my boat to turn on my electronics on switch just reach in there.

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    #16
    About relays: First, I've had a starter/alternator shop for over 20yrs and been an ASC for Motorguide and MinnKota for close to 15yr. I say this so you will know I've encountered relays and solenoids many times during the past 20+ years. I've read with interest the views on using relays in place of a on/off switch. For several reasons a relay is not intended to replace a battery cutoff switch, but a relay, providing you get a continuous duty relay with the correct wiring / amperage draw, can be used in the application mentioned above. The relay from ebay mentioned above does not meet that criteria. It shows a max 30A rating which is fine for 1 talon (not two). It also shows "heavy duty" which is not "continuous duty". Contrary to what is said above, a relay/solenoid does draw current the entire time it's energized. Current moves through it two different ways. One way, it goes from positive ignition ignition, through a coil, to negative. This is present the entire time it's energized and allows for an electromagnetic field to hold a plunger contact across the negative and positive wiring contacts. The other way is through the wiring contacts. With these being a connection that is made by a copper contact going across the power in/power out contact internally, the connection gets hot and remaining engaged will cause the copper to "melt" and weld itself to the contacts internally. This causes the relay/solenoid to "hang in" or remain engaged when power is removed from the ignition side of the coil. A continuous duty relay/soleniod has nickle contact points to keep it from welding itself together. That being said, yes, a solenoid/relay will hang in if it doesn't receive proper voltage and is not the proper relay. Next problem with the one mentioned is the wire size. 18ga isn't meant to carry 30A. For a 30A rating it should be wired with at least a 14, preferably a 12 or 10ga.
    Relays are used in our boats at the outboard motor, trim/tilt, hydraulic jackplates -- but these are not for continuous duty.
    John
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonestrollingmotor View Post
    About relays: First, I've had a starter/alternator shop for over 20yrs and been an ASC for Motorguide and MinnKota for close to 15yr. I say this so you will know I've encountered relays and solenoids many times during the past 20+ years. I've read with interest the views on using relays in place of a on/off switch. For several reasons a relay is not intended to replace a battery cutoff switch, but a relay, providing you get a continuous duty relay with the correct wiring / amperage draw, can be used in the application mentioned above. The relay from ebay mentioned above does not meet that criteria. It shows a max 30A rating which is fine for 1 talon (not two). It also shows "heavy duty" which is not "continuous duty". Contrary to what is said above, a relay/solenoid does draw current the entire time it's energized. Current moves through it two different ways. One way, it goes from positive ignition ignition, through a coil, to negative. This is present the entire time it's energized and allows for an electromagnetic field to hold a plunger contact across the negative and positive wiring contacts. The other way is through the wiring contacts. With these being a connection that is made by a copper contact going across the power in/power out contact internally, the connection gets hot and remaining engaged will cause the copper to "melt" and weld itself to the contacts internally. This causes the relay/solenoid to "hang in" or remain engaged when power is removed from the ignition side of the coil. A continuous duty relay/soleniod has nickle contact points to keep it from welding itself together. That being said, yes, a solenoid/relay will hang in if it doesn't receive proper voltage and is not the proper relay. Next problem with the one mentioned is the wire size. 18ga isn't meant to carry 30A. For a 30A rating it should be wired with at least a 14, preferably a 12 or 10ga.
    Relays are used in our boats at the outboard motor, trim/tilt, hydraulic jackplates -- but these are not for continuous duty.
    John
    Thanks for the info.

    I did a random ebay search to pick one on my phone to post. I like the idea of the fuse as well as coming with the plug in one unit. Maybe you can post the constant duty one we need??

    Is the current draw on a relay when powered ever more than a low amp draw? Maybe a toggle is the way to go if the draw is going to be significant on two relays or one larger one?

    I get mine from Napa auto parts and they use a 10 gauge wire as they are generally used for fans. I assumed I dont need to use them since the talon only has a 14g power wire. I have to buy the fuse holder and plug separately they end up being more $. I always wire in a spare one next to my bank of relays. So in this case for talons a person would install 3.
    Last edited by Jeff from Iowa; 01-03-2018 at 08:03 AM.

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    #18

  19. Banned
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    #19

    Cool

    Thanks to you for a great insite into this.
    The thought behind relays is that I could activate and deactivate the power to the Talons when needed.
    The insight into the difference between the temporary and continuous energized relays is something that I will keep in mind.
    Yes the current rating for each Talon is 30 Amps.
    So a cut off switch should be single 8 gauge in to a single 60 Amp switch and two fused 10 gauge wires out. Or a seperate 30 Amp switch with 10 gauge wires in and out fused for each Talon. This would give the option to disconnect a single Talon if electrical issues arise.
    Someone suggested that the Talons be wired through the Master Switch. With my boat having two 20 Amp circuits running through the Master Switch adding additional current would mean that I would need a 100Amp switch :-0
    A descent idea but I like the idea of beind able to energize the Talons when needed. I might look into having the two switches by the master switch. (That was why I thought about Relays, small switches and wirering needed at the helm)
    Any pictures of what you used would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks for your time.
    I think that I will use the switches and see is my Alzheimer's remembers to turn them off at the end of the day.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffjoldersma View Post
    Right idea, but at 25A not large enough for a Talon.
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