Needing recommendations for unique situation

[redxdu]

Hey guys, I'm in need of a little help. I've been pestering the guys over in the Stratos forum for a while about this, and they've done a great job giving me advice, but they also said that there's some real knowledgeable dudes over on the prop board and suggested that I should stop by and ask my questions here as well.

Here's my situation. I put a 2005 200 Optimax on a 1999 Stratos 201 Pro Elite. So that's a 20' 4" boat that came standard from the factory with a 225 and is max rated for a 245. My slightly under powered set up alone probably isn't all that unique. The thing that might throw a kink into it is all the crap that I'm planning to stick in the ass end of this boat. I plan to have 2 12 foot talons and 5 batteries in the back (3 for trolling motor, 1 for cranking, 1 for independently running depth finders).

I'll try to give you all the relevant info that I can:

- It has a Pro Hi Jacker jack plate with 6 inches of setback and what my tape measure tells me is 4 inches of room to go up and down

- It currently has a 23P Tempest

- I have not been able to run the boat yet because I just got the motor installed last week and all of our lakes are covered in ice. I won't get to try it out till April. The motor is one that I used to have on a 00' Ranger 518SVX. The hull and trailer of that set up got hit by a car and totaled out. The Stratos hull I just stumbled upon and have virtually no information on because it too was an insurance salvage situation where the old motor got wrecked but the hull and trailer are just fine. What I've done here is essentially cob together a Frankenboat.

- I mostly fish smaller lakes that rarely require me to run more than 3 or 4 miles at a time.

- I frequently make short moves—1 mile or less

- I do value speed simply because it's fun and I will fish the occasional tournament from this boat, but truthfully hole shot is going to be more important. I hate being in a boat that snow plows its way across the lake.

- I have a few different props that I can test off of friends boats, but they're all three blade 25-27P stuff. Probably not what I'm going to need, right?

Please give me your top 2 or 3 ideas for my situation... Or just straight up tell me that it's not going to work no matter what prop I try.

Let me know if there's any other relevant information that you need as you think about this.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Just for the hell of it, here's a pic of the boat we're talking about

[Savage]

You need a Bravo1 XS (2015-present edition)

The pitch can only be determined ACCURATELY AFTER you install ALL the anchors, batteries, etc......so run the Tempest to get ACCURATE WOT RPM readings once the boat is loaded down, then come back here and we can help you with the correct pitch.

[rchavis]

A 25 p Tempest plus for top end speed . A 24 P Bravo1 for all round running . Thats what i am running on my older 201 pro and love it .
My boat is 1 1988 and has a 2.5 200 hp with around 20-30 hrs on the motor . I have a Bravo 1 XS 25p.....i am going to send to Mark to pitch down .Basic take the cup out to be a 24p prop .
Want to see what the diff . will be with a standard Bravo vs a full flare one . the Tempest has more bow lift and about 2=3 mph faster . The Bravo runs flater than the Tempest on my hull .
Your hull has been tweak some ,from minds and has sharper /deeper V.

[Atomicbassturd]

You may want to rethink 5 batteries. I run a 1994 201 with a detwiler 8” hydraulic backplate, three group 31 deep cycles and a group 24 starting battery. Our hulls are a little different, but not much. You will NEED a four blade to get you out of the hole with water in the livewells. Even then it will be pretty slow. If you can add a planing plate (I have one on the bottom of my jack plate) you can make it reasonable. My guess is you should definitely try the bravo XS, trophy or a power tech tro4 in a 24 pitch. You aren’t going to get much more than 62-64 mph with the load you are planning. These are fast hulls with more hp but the hole shot is the challenge with a lot of weight. Good luck

[21XDC]

You need a Bravo1 XS (2015-present edition)

The pitch can only be determined ACCURATELY AFTER you install ALL the anchors, batteries, etc......so run the Tempest to get ACCURATE WOT RPM readings once the boat is loaded down, then come back here and we can help you with the correct pitch.

Bingo.... The Razor4 XL would be another top choice.

[JR19]

You need a Bravo1 XS (2015-present edition)

The pitch can only be determined ACCURATELY AFTER you install ALL the anchors, batteries, etc......so run the Tempest to get ACCURATE WOT RPM readings once the boat is loaded down, then come back here and we can help you with the correct pitch.

Bingo.... The Razor4 XL would be another top choice.

Excellent point...use the 23 tempest as a baseline. Then come back with results for a recommended pitch. I also like what Mike said because when buying a Razor 4XL from Mark Croxten if your pitch is not correct he will make it correct. When buying a prop from Mercury they will not exchange it so you're stuck with what you have. Mike has more knowledge about Razor props than most. He can correct me if I am wrong but I "think" the Razor 4 XL is a clone of a Bravo I. If not they are very similiar.

redxdu...we talked about this on another post. I was the one who suggested you post here. The guru's have spoken...the suggestions should sound familiar

[Invader186S]

redxdu, I sent you a PM

[Nova Kaw 650]

No need of have a 5th battery.

[John Jackson]

You need a Bravo1 XS (2015-present edition)

The pitch can only be determined ACCURATELY AFTER you install ALL the anchors, batteries, etc......so run the Tempest to get ACCURATE WOT RPM readings once the boat is loaded down, then come back here and we can help you with the correct pitch.

+2. YOu will need the Bravo for any decent holeshot, especially with the standard opti motor being weak. However, you might need the full flare bravo for the stern lift, instead of the Bravo XS. You will need the dual pvs holes. That's a lot of weight on the back of a heavy boat.

[mdtritn21]

Save some money and put Lithium batteries in the boat because it won't make much difference which motor it has 200 or 225 with all that weight in the ass end it will struggle to get on plane.

[redxdu]

redxdu...we talked about this on another post. I was the one who suggested you post here. The guru's have spoken...the suggestions should sound familiar

Yes sir Mr. Burton, you did tell me

You may want to rethink 5 batteries

Judging by the responses, I might have to. The only reason I have 5 batteries in my head is because a buddy of mine is running all of the same gear on his Nitro and he kept having problems draining down his cranking battery when he was relying on it to run 2 talons, 3 depth finders, a 360 transducer, livewell pumps, and regular motor cranking duties. He added the 5th one and put his depth finders on it and his troubles went away.

That's a lot of weight on the back of a heavy boat.

I was hoping it's not too heavy of a boat. From the spec sheets I can find it's about 100 pounds heavier than the Ranger 518SVX that this motor was on before, and that was the fastest planing boat I think I've been in and it didn't even have a jack plate. I supposed they're all different though.

If you can add a planing plate (I have one on the bottom of my jack plate) you can make it reasonable.

I will happily add a hole shot plate if it will help. I'm not afraid to put a hyrdofoil on there either, unless you guys think that's a bad idea. I recently read somewhere on here that hydrofoils are bad for under powered boats. Would you go as far as saying my boat is legitimately under powered? Or is it just on the lower end of what would be considered appropriate power?

What do you guys think of that? Bravo prop, holeshot plate, and hydrofoil? Or is that trying too hard? If I still struggle I could tuck that extra battery for the depth finders up front in a compartment somewhere. I don't necessarily have to run two talons either. I was just planning on two because it's nice to have a second one for extra hold in the wind and to keep you from pivoting on the one. I could probably stop at having just one if the second one is what's keeping me from having a decent hole shot.

We'll figure it out one way or the other. All I know is that it's going to be a really long winter! I got this boat in my possession literally one day after ice set in for the winter. One day earlier and I could have gotten out and done some tests with the current 23 Tempest just to see where I'm starting from. Now I've gotta wait a good 4 months, maybe 5, wondering about all this stuff. Living up north sucks

[Nova Kaw 650]

Yes sir Mr. Burton, you did tell me




Judging by the responses, I might have to. The only reason I have 5 batteries in my head is because a buddy of mine is running all of the same gear on his Nitro and he kept having problems draining down his cranking battery when he was relying on it to run 2 talons, 3 depth finders, a 360 transducer, livewell pumps, and regular motor cranking duties. He added the 5th one and put his depth finders on it and his troubles went away.




I was hoping it's not too heavy of a boat. From the spec sheets I can find it's about 100 pounds heavier than the Ranger 518SVX that this motor was on before, and that was the fastest planing boat I think I've been in and it didn't even have a jack plate. I supposed they're all different though.




I will happily add a hole shot plate if it will help. I'm not afraid to put a hyrdofoil on there either, unless you guys think that's a bad idea. I recently read somewhere on here that hydrofoils are bad for under powered boats. Would you go as far as saying my boat is legitimately under powered? Or is it just on the lower end of what would be considered appropriate power?

What do you guys think of that? Bravo prop, holeshot plate, and hydrofoil? Or is that trying too hard? If I still struggle I could tuck that extra battery for the depth finders up front in a compartment somewhere. I don't necessarily have to run two talons either. I was just planning on two because it's nice to have a second one for extra hold in the wind and to keep you from pivoting on the one. I could probably stop at having just one if the second one is what's keeping me from having a decent hole shot.

We'll figure it out one way or the other. All I know is that it's going to be a really long winter! I got this boat in my possession literally one day after ice set in for the winter. One day earlier and I could have gotten out and done some tests with the current 23 Tempest just to see where I'm starting from. Now I've gotta wait a good 4 months, maybe 5, wondering about all this stuff. Living up north sucks

Just the opposite; hydrofoils are designed for underpowered boats, and do what they're designed to do.
BBC has lots of people with lots of money that will insist you need to repower.

[John Jackson]

Just the opposite; hydrofoils are designed for underpowered boats, and do what they're designed to do.
BBC has lots of people with lots of money that will insist you need to repower.

True statements here. I put one of the custom foils made here by CBailey, but had him cut it 2" short on the notch, meaning instead of flush at the back, it sticks 2" behind the plate. Makes for a much better and flatter holeshot. Holeshot plate helps too. YOu will need an 8 hole Bravo. I've put several of these Bravos on heavier 175 and 200 hp setups, and the difference is dramatic.

[06 SB]

No prop expert here but I agree to try the 23 Tempest. My neighbor has the same boat with a 200 Intruder on the back. Same jackplate, 2 12’ talons, 3 group 29 AGMs and most of Tacklewarehouse in the boat. He built a flippen deck for it too. He always fills up the tanks. It weighs a couple TONs LOL. His primary prop is a 23 Tempest.

Dont skimp on the cranking battery and you will not need a “house” battery for electronics. Also, the Opti needs a beast of a battery to start. Get a good Northstar 31 AGM for cranking and it will do all you need.

[JR19]

Here is the way I would approach the situation...

Batteries if you have the coin for lithium trolling and cranking batteries then by all means it will save a lot of weight. However I would only go lithium on the cranking battery if it has sufficient reserve run time and cranking amps. Plus you must have a battery charger that is capable of recharging a lithium battery. I would want ALL my batteries hooked to an on board charger. If that is not an option then I have other choices.

Three wet cell batteries for a 36V trolling motor and one HUGE 31 AGM cranking battery. I would want a minimum of 200 + minutes reserve run time. Here is the battery I would want...and it is NOT cheap https://www.westmarine.com/buy/north...42?recordNum=3 Here is the battery I use. I run dual Talons and two Lowrance GPS units. I only run the bow unit when fishing. I always turn off the console unit when fishing. I seldom fish a tournament but when I do I can run my pumps, both talons and unit up front with no issues. http://www.tristatebattery.com/8a31d...06itanqvu8rhq0 People often get caught up in cranking amps and often overlook reserve run time. A 200 Opti does not require huge cranking amps but if my memory is correct it still needs to be in the 800 range. Reserve is how long your battery can run while the motor is off and still produce power to crank the motor when the time to start comes. Example if your battery has a reserve of 220 minutes it can produce 20 amps for 220 minutes and still "in theory" crank your motor. Graphs, Talons and livewells will not pull 20 amps so the minutes are extended longer than 220 "in theory" Also note that a AGM battery is more efficient than a wet cell battery but not as efficient as a lithium. An AGM battery does require a battery charger that is capable of charging a AGM battery. "Most" chargers made in the last 10 years are AGM compatible so check to make sure your charger can support a AGM battery.

Last option is go wet cell with all 5. I would not be as concerned with the cranking battery reserve because adding a second one in parallel is going to double your reserve. It will have zero effect on cranking amps. In a DC system when you hook two batteries in parallel you do not change power (aka AMPS) you just add reserve run time ( how long the battery will have power). In this case you will need a 5 bank battery charger. I have never seen a 5 bank charger but that does not mean they do not make them. You might have to have a 3 bank for the trolling motor and a two bank for the cranking batteries. This would be the heaviest option as far as weight goes so it just another reason I would go with 1 monster cranking battery.

Prop...as previously mentioned get your boat set-up the way you're going to run it. See what the 23 Tempest does so you have a baseline for rpm's. I personally would get Mark's Razor 4 XL and here is why. I am pretty sure it's a clone or has very similiar blade characteristics like the original Bravo I. However it does have 8 PVS holes like the Bravo I XS and FS and a flared barrel similiar to a XS and FS. http://www.marksprops.com/ Plus Mark has forgot more about props and how to set up a boat than what most will learn in a lifetime. If the pitch is off Mark will exchange or work the prop to make it right. If buying a prop from a dealer or Mercury and its not the right pitch you just bought a prop that does not work for you application. You can send it off to someone who works on props and get it worked but you can not exchange it for another prop. That is another reason why I recommend Mark' Croxten. He will make it right.

Jackplate...I don't recall what brand you have. "Most" make a plate that mounts under the jack plate covering the hole. TH Marine makes one for the Atlas and ZLock. It's called a Hot Shot Plate. Other manufacturers make one. They are commonly called a hole shot plate. They do two things. One it prevents the jack plate from acting like a scoop on hole-shot and two it prevents water from shooting up through the jackplate when you sit down off pad to come to a stop. If you can not find an OEM plate contact BBC member cbailey. He can custom make one for your rig.

Hydrofoil...HECK yes I would add one. I would get everything set up ie: motor height and prop and then the last thing I would do is add a hydrofoil. By far this was the best thing I ever done to improve my holeshot. I did not go 4 blade because "typically" with a 4 blade you give up a little on top end. With a hydrofoil I still turn my 3 blade and never lose speed but I gained holeshot. Now I have the traditional Stingray hydrofoil. If anything ever happens to it I will get Chris Bailey to make me one of his custom foils. I had read many reviews about it here on BBC. It works as good as a traditional Stingray Hydrofoil but it blow it out of the water when it comes to looks. It's not plastic. You can get stainless or brushed aluminum. Plus you can "customize" your foil to match your boat. Check out Chris bailey's work. Make sure you scroll thru and look at all the pictures...http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....316&highlight=


More of his work...http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....714&highlight=

[Nova Kaw 650]

True statements here. I put one of the custom foils made here by CBailey, but had him cut it 2" short on the notch, meaning instead of flush at the back, it sticks 2" behind the plate. Makes for a much better and flatter holeshot. Holeshot plate helps too. YOu will need an 8 hole Bravo. I've put several of these Bravos on heavier 175 and 200 hp setups, and the difference is dramatic.

Very good move right there ^^^^
I bought a CBaily, but it needed a bit more surface area.
I had a buddy cut one out a little longer, w/o the back-cuts in the rear.