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  1. #1
    California Fishing Moderator Captain Babito A7T3C's Avatar
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    Nitro Z18 - 24p Fury question

    Picked up a new Nitro Z18 recently – has the Mercury ProXS 175 w/24p Fury

    I’ve browsed quite a few setups, but I’m not really seeing if folks are running with or without the prop vent plugs?

    Hole shot with this boat was a pig the first trip out last week (had full tank, all gear with me though I feel I travel light for the most part), really seems like it’s just spinning up and not grabbing at all. I’m trimmed all the way down, when it finally does make plane it’s great after that and I trim up as needed. Also when slowing speed, she starts to buck like a wild bull as I assume it’s grabbing then not and repeating..

    I have one of Chris’s custom hydrofoils on its way, but I’m also thinking of adding plugs before this weekend’s trip and while I wait for the foil to arrive. Just a bit surprised that it hasn’t been a smoother experience on a brand new boat, minus the hole shot the boat is flawless and is totally meeting my expectations.

    Would love to hear input and if anyone is running with plugs, and if so which/how many.

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    #2
    At rpms does the nose of the boat break over onto plane? You may need more venting possibly..

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Atrain89 View Post
    At rpms does the nose of the boat break over onto plane? You may need more venting possibly..
    To be honest i can't remember about which rpm range it was in when finally breaking over, though i do recall on several launches and the first when taking off it climbing to 3-4k range and thinking 'why the fk are we barely moving'. That initial trip the three vent plugs were open as the boat came from dealer.

    Throughout the day i tried different takeoff methods - easing into it, being more aggressive. Easing into it was definitely the best, but it still didn't seem right at all as it was described as in first post. Not my first boat, but is my first bass boat w/hot foot as well...

  4. RIP Evinrude 1907-2020 JR19's Avatar
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    #4
    What is your current plug configuration.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    What is your current plug configuration.
    The first trip last week there were no plugs in, completely open. Does it sound like too much ventilation?

    Last night i put in a plug for each hole, not full plugs - they had an opening. Package only came with solid and these...i'll be on the water again Monday and testing. Just frustrating because when i do read about this prop, it's usually that the plugs are left wide open..

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    #6
    I have the same boat, and I've run a lot of props (spent too much $$ doing it). I finally settled on a 24p Tempest Plus. Best combination of hole shot, drivability, and performance.
    '17 Nitro Z21, 250ProXS serial # 2B399616, 24p Fury4, 12" Atlas, Apex 16 @ console, Apex 16 & Apex 13 @ bow, Mega 360, Ultrex, 8ft blades

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TXZ18 View Post
    I have the same boat, and I've run a lot of props (spent too much $$ doing it). I finally settled on a 24p Tempest Plus. Best combination of hole shot, drivability, and performance.
    Did you try a hydrofoil in any of your testing? I'm really hoping Chris's custom foil is going to resolve my hole shot ability. If not, i'll definitely start looking into the tempest as you mentioned!

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by A7T3C View Post
    Also when slowing speed, she starts to buck like a wild bull as I assume it’s grabbing then not and repeating..
    It's bucking (porpoising) because you're not trimming down before slowing down. Trim that sucker down
    2015 Nitro Z-7 175 Pro XS

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    #9
    I don't think closing the vents is going to help you. Opening vents usually helps holeshot. Are you flooring it when taking off? If not, I would try that. You shouldn't have trouble with a 175 and 24p prop with holeshot. I noticed that you said this is a new boat. Is this your first high performance hull boat? If so, I would give yourself some time to to learn how your boat and motor rides before breaking out the dough.

    I would consider returning that foil also. There's no need for it with your boat and motor.
    2015 Nitro Z-7 175 Pro XS

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    #10
    Yea, that foil is a waste of money and looks ugly as well . You should pop out of the hole and get whiplash doing it with your set-up.... Something isn't right... Have the hotfoot/throttle checked for WO... Let us know...
    Layton Strong
    Nitro State Team

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by potomacbassin View Post
    It's bucking (porpoising) because you're not trimming down before slowing down. Trim that sucker down
    Noted, I will make sure I’m trimming down when slowing.

    Quote Originally Posted by potomacbassin View Post
    I don't think closing the vents is going to help you. Opening vents usually helps holeshot. Are you flooring it when taking off? If not, I would try that. You shouldn't have trouble with a 175 and 24p prop with holeshot. I noticed that you said this is a new boat. Is this your first high performance hull boat? If so, I would give yourself some time to to learn how your boat and motor rides before breaking out the dough.

    I would consider returning that foil also. There's no need for it with your boat and motor.
    That’s all I’ve read too, hence my frustration. I’m not flooring it, but will try that. This is my first high performance hull boat, previous boat had a 150hp 4 stroke Yamaha that was quite tame, deep v hull aluminum. I agree I need more time. I’ll likely hang on to the foil and resell if not needed..

    Quote Originally Posted by KCLOST View Post
    Yea, that foil is a waste of money and looks ugly as well . You should pop out of the hole and get whiplash doing it with your set-up.... Something isn't right... Have the hotfoot/throttle checked for WO... Let us know...
    The hotfoot is something I’ve been thinking about looking into as well – it seems to be very stiff, but being my first I have no idea if this is normal or not. I’ve wanted to just floor the sucker to see how it is out of the hole, but trying to be mindful of breaking in properly. Checked for WO?

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    #12
    My boat never porposed at all, with any of the props I tried. My Atlas jack plate helped holeshot out, but even loaded down it comes out pretty good. I never had to run any plugs in my Fury 3 or Fury 4.
    '17 Nitro Z21, 250ProXS serial # 2B399616, 24p Fury4, 12" Atlas, Apex 16 @ console, Apex 16 & Apex 13 @ bow, Mega 360, Ultrex, 8ft blades

  13. Member KCLOST's Avatar
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    #13
    On your hole shot, trim the motor all the way down, Floor the hot-foot all the way, see what happens. It should plane out in 3-4 seconds or less.. You don't need to feather the throttle on hole shot, let it rip....

    If the prop blows out on the other hand (looses all bite and over revs the engine), that is another issue, but with your rig/set-up, highly unlikely. Your engine has a rev limiter also...

    Let us know...
    Layton Strong
    Nitro State Team

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    #14
    Two choices to produce the behavior you mentioned (spinning up but not breaking over). Both are related to prop ventilation. Either your motor height is too high, or you have too many PVS plugs removed. Almost 100% of the boats I have helped people with (when running a 3-blade Fury) have performed best with all three PVS plugs completely removed. If your boat is heavy, you might need to add one or more plugs. That will prevent exhaust gas from reaching the prop and letting it over-ventilate. If that is not the problem, then a motor height that is too high will also produce this kind of behavior as the prop ventilates badly and can't produce enough thrust to get you "over the hump".

    Here's the question to answer: when sitting still and flooring the throttle, what happens? With a correct setup, the prop should pretty quickly wind up to 3500-4000 RPM and stay there. You should accelerate pretty quickly with the bow up. As the bow breaks over, it is pretty common for the RPM to climb to 4000-5000 RPM if you are right on the ragged edge of engine height (almost too high). Then as the bow drops, RPM will drop and away you go. If, when you get on it, the RPM stays at 3000 RPM or less. you need more PVS plugs removed. If the RPM immediately climbs to 4500-5000 (or higher) you need either fewer PVS vents open (add plugs) or else motor height is too high. That initial RPM when you gun it tells you what you need. You want to hit 3500 or so to get the motor up into its torque curve. But you do want the prop to be able to bite some to get you moving.

    When the above poster said "WO" he meant "Wide Open". IE have someone mash the hotfoot to the floor, then while they hold it, examine the throttle butterfly under the engine cowl. You can either remove the plastic cover, or if you look at the linkage you will see the idle stop and max throttle stop. Make sure that the linkage bumps into the max throttle stop very lightly. It is pretty common to see a hotfoot adjusted wrongly. There's usually some sort of bolt with a jam-nut on the hotfoot by the pedal. This bolt limits hotfoot travel, as you don't want to allow the strength of your leg to jam the throttle linkage against the WOT limit in the back, you can EASILY bend something since your leg is so strong (not to mention the force that pedal receives when you hit a wave and use your foot to stabilize yourself in the seat). If you are not comfortable doing this, DON'T. Take it to a shop and let a mechanic that knows what he is doing set it up right. Most have a j-hook on the toe of the hotfoot so that if the spring won't pull the throttle back to idle, you can use your toe to do so. But until you have driven a lot, this is not a normal thing to have to do, and all it takes is 1-2 seconds (while you are panic-overloaded since the throttle won't back off) for something REALLY BAD to happen...
    Last edited by OldTimer57; 11-03-2017 at 02:18 PM.
    2008 Bass Cat Pantera Classic
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by A7T3C View Post
    The first trip last week there were no plugs in, completely open. Does it sound like too much ventilation?

    Last night i put in a plug for each hole, not full plugs - they had an opening. Package only came with solid and these...i'll be on the water again Monday and testing. Just frustrating because when i do read about this prop, it's usually that the plugs are left wide open..
    When dealing with vent plugs this has been my experience...if the prop is sluggish to build rpm you need more ventilation / open the holes. If it builds rpm fast and does not bite then you need less ventilation / close the holes. "Typically" and I use the word typically loosely because each boat setup is different but typically most people start with all holes open. If that is too much ventilation then adding large hole plugs will help get the venting correct. You may need to add 1,2 or 3 large hole plugs. This is trial and error. "Typically" people who use solid plugs are running a prop with double PVS holes. There is some 3 blade props with 6 vent holes and a 4 blades with 8 vent holes. They are "typically" the people who run solid plugs because they have more holes that need to be closed.

    Based on what you said in your initial post ''it's just spinning up and not grabbing at all" I say you have too much ventilation. I would add two large plugs and give it a try.

    I also wanted to add there is MULTIPLE variables that effect hole-shot. One of them is prop to pad height. I am not familiar with your particular combo. Try to find out what most people are running for a prop to pad height on a combo just like yours. To deep "typically" is sluggish on holeshot and too high wants to blow out / prop loses bite when the bow breaks over. The key thing you mention that makes me think your prop to pad height might be off is the comment " she starts to buck like a wild bull" Motor height works from a fulcrum point. If out of balance weird things can happen. Think about it like a person walking a highwire. They use a beam to keep their balance. Your motor mounted to the transom/jackplate is trying to raise the bow so you can get on plane. Once on plane it needs to balance the bow to keep it up running up on the pad. Correct prop to pad height keeps it in balance. "Typically" too high will cause porpoise (bow bouncing up and down) but too low can also cause this. I have not been in your boat but based on your comment "bucking like a wild bull" it sound like porpoise to me so hench the reason I say check your prop to pad height and see if its close to what other people with the same combo is running.

    Personally if it were mine I would dial in the plug configuration that does the best. Then I would tweak my motor height. If you're not satisfied then I would add cbaileys foil. I went through the fine tuning process when I added two talons to my boat because it really killed my holeshot. I finally got it decent but not exactly where I wanted it by playing with vent plugs and motor height.The last thing i done was add a foil and it was by far the best thing I done to improve holeshot. You will not regret adding a foil but get it as best as you can before adding the foil.

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TXZ18 View Post
    My boat never porposed at all, with any of the props I tried. My Atlas jack plate helped holeshot out, but even loaded down it comes out pretty good. I never had to run any plugs in my Fury 3 or Fury 4.
    Noted, appreciate the info.

    Quote Originally Posted by KCLOST View Post
    On your hole shot, trim the motor all the way down, Floor the hot-foot all the way, see what happens. It should plane out in 3-4 seconds or less.. You don't need to feather the throttle on hole shot, let it rip....

    If the prop blows out on the other hand (looses all bite and over revs the engine), that is another issue, but with your rig/set-up, highly unlikely. Your engine has a rev limiter also...

    Let us know...
    I will make sure I’m completely trimmed down next outing. I’m going to floor it completely too, which I’ve not yet done because of the mentioned break-in, being new to this setup – maybe my feathering/easy roll on of power is handicapping my hole shot. Wasn’t aware of the rev limiter, learning a ton with this thread already. I’ll definitely report back.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldTimer57 View Post
    Two choices to produce the behavior you mentioned (spinning up but not breaking over). Both are related to prop ventilation. Either your motor height is too high, or you have too many PVS plugs removed. Almost 100% of the boats I have helped people with (when running a 3-blade Fury) have performed best with all three PVS plugs completely removed. If your boat is heavy, you might need to add one or more plugs. That will prevent exhaust gas from reaching the prop and letting it over-ventilate. If that is not the problem, then a motor height that is too high will also produce this kind of behavior as the prop ventilates badly and can't produce enough thrust to get you "over the hump".

    Here's the question to answer: when sitting still and flooring the throttle, what happens? With a correct setup, the prop should pretty quickly wind up to 3500-4000 RPM and stay there. You should accelerate pretty quickly with the bow up. As the bow breaks over, it is pretty common for the RPM to climb to 4000-5000 RPM if you are right on the ragged edge of engine height (almost too high). Then as the bow drops, RPM will drop and away you go. If, when you get on it, the RPM stays at 3000 RPM or less. you need more PVS plugs removed. If the RPM immediately climbs to 4500-5000 (or higher) you need either fewer PVS vents open (add plugs) or else motor height is too high. That initial RPM when you gun it tells you what you need. You want to hit 3500 or so to get the motor up into its torque curve. But you do want the prop to be able to bite some to get you moving.

    When the above poster said "WO" he meant "Wide Open". IE have someone mash the hotfoot to the floor, then while they hold it, examine the throttle butterfly under the engine cowl. You can either remove the plastic cover, or if you look at the linkage you will see the idle stop and max throttle stop. Make sure that the linkage bumps into the max throttle stop very lightly. It is pretty common to see a hotfoot adjusted wrongly. There's usually some sort of bolt with a jam-nut on the hotfoot by the pedal. This bolt limits hotfoot travel, as you don't want to allow the strength of your leg to jam the throttle linkage against the WOT limit in the back, you can EASILY bend something since your leg is so strong (not to mention the force that pedal receives when you hit a wave and use your foot to stabilize yourself in the seat). If you are not comfortable doing this, DON'T. Take it to a shop and let a mechanic that knows what he is doing set it up right. Most have a j-hook on the toe of the hotfoot so that if the spring won't pull the throttle back to idle, you can use your toe to do so. But until you have driven a lot, this is not a normal thing to have to do, and all it takes is 1-2 seconds (while you are panic-overloaded since the throttle won't back off) for something REALLY BAD to happen...
    As mentioned just last night I added plugs to each of the three holes, I’m going to remove them today when I get home. I’ll test some more with my setup as it came straight from the dealer, with no plugs. I’m going to take note of RPM as I make my way through several runs. Not completely comfortable with adjusting the hotfoot, based off of how Monday’s trip goes I’ll see about taking it in if things still seem wonky with it.

    My weekend is sun-tues each week, can’t wait to hit the water this Monday with the info you guys have provided. Majorly appreciated!

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    When dealing with vent plugs this has been my experience...if the prop is sluggish to build rpm you need more ventilation / open the holes. If it builds rpm fast and does not bite then you need less ventilation / close the holes. "Typically" and I use the word typically loosely because each boat setup is different but typically most people start with all holes open. If that is too much ventilation then adding large hole plugs will help get the venting correct. You may need to add 1,2 or 3 large hole plugs. This is trial and error. "Typically" people who use solid plugs are running a prop with double PVS holes. There is some 3 blade props with 6 vent holes and a 4 blades with 8 vent holes. They are "typically" the people who run solid plugs because they have more holes that need to be closed.

    Based on what you said in your initial post ''it's just spinning up and not grabbing at all" I say you have too much ventilation. I would add two large plugs and give it a try.

    I also wanted to add there is MULTIPLE variables that effect hole-shot. One of them is prop to pad height. I am not familiar with your particular combo. Try to find out what most people are running for a prop to pad height on a combo just like yours. To deep "typically" is sluggish on holeshot and too high wants to blow out / prop loses bite when the bow breaks over. The key thing you mention that makes me think your prop to pad height might be off is the comment " she starts to buck like a wild bull" Motor height works from a fulcrum point. If out of balance weird things can happen. Think about it like a person walking a highwire. They use a beam to keep their balance. Your motor mounted to the transom/jackplate is trying to raise the bow so you can get on plane. Once on plane it needs to balance the bow to keep it up running up on the pad. Correct prop to pad height keeps it in balance. "Typically" too high will cause porpoise (bow bouncing up and down) but too low can also cause this. I have not been in your boat but based on your comment "bucking like a wild bull" it sound like porpoise to me so hench the reason I say check your prop to pad height and see if its close to what other people with the same combo is running.

    Personally if it were mine I would dial in the plug configuration that does the best. Then I would tweak my motor height. If you're not satisfied then I would add cbaileys foil. I went through the fine tuning process when I added two talons to my boat because it really killed my holeshot. I finally got it decent but not exactly where I wanted it by playing with vent plugs and motor height.The last thing i done was add a foil and it was by far the best thing I done to improve holeshot. You will not regret adding a foil but get it as best as you can before adding the foil.
    I understand what you mean, and will definitely keep it in mind. Sucks that i know just being new to this setup is a factor in itself, i take great care of my things and flooring the hot foot in a brand new boat is something i hadn't thought of doing until after break-in period. It could very well be that I'm just pussy footing this thing too much and i'm my own problem LOL

    I'm going to take the plugs with me, and try several tests on the water - should be a fun day.

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    #18
    I went back through and read all the replies again. To clarify when you say "it's spinning up and not grabbing at all" do you mean its spins up and stalls / stays there or is it spinning up and continuing to gain rpm with no bite. The first would need more venting and the last would need less venting. "typically" most boats break over the bow at 32-3600 rpm. Any lower is sluggish ie: needs venting and any higher it will blow out so it needs less venting.

    Also noticed this is a new boat. Are you new to boating or is this just a new to you boat. On hole-shot make sure your trimmed all the way down and throttle is full when getting on plane. If things are correct you floor the throttle, the bow rises a small amount, rpms steadily build to 32-3600, the bow breaks over, your hooked up and starting to gain forward momentum/ speed. Then you back off the throttle, start trimming up to raise the bow and increase throttle as you feel needed for more speed. Sound simple and it is but if you have no experience with a combo like yours it may take a couple months of seat time to figure it out. If you're a seasoned boater then you should have it figured out in a very short amount of time. I do not mean to come off as harsh or a know it all. I have no idea what you experience level is...heck you may even have more seat time than me. just trying to help

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    #19
    Now it's more clear...on break-in its okay to open up the throttle on holeshot because you should not be seeing excessive rpm on holeshot. I take back my original comment about adding plugs. Remove them all, trim all the way down, floor the throttle on holeshot. Once on plane back off the throttle. On break-in for a new motor your tech should have told you what to do. I like to say let the internal parts in your motor get to know each other well before running wide open but it is okay to open the throttle wide open just to get on plane.


    My main concern would be getting through the break-in period before adding a foil or adjusting motor height. Plugs are simple to play with so if you want to adjust plus no big deal but my main concern would be getting it broke in before do any drastic fine tuning.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JR19 View Post
    I went back through and read all the replies again. To clarify when you say "it's spinning up and not grabbing at all" do you mean its spins up and stalls / stays there or is it spinning up and continuing to gain rpm with no bite. The first would need more venting and the last would need less venting. "typically" most boats break over the bow at 32-3600 rpm. Any lower is sluggish ie: needs venting and any higher it will blow out so it needs less venting.

    Also noticed this is a new boat. Are you new to boating or is this just a new to you boat. On hole-shot make sure your trimmed all the way down and throttle is full when getting on plane. If things are correct you floor the throttle, the bow rises a small amount, rpms steadily build to 32-3600, the bow breaks over, your hooked up and starting to gain forward momentum/ speed. Then you back off the throttle, start trimming up to raise the bow and increase throttle as you feel needed for more speed. Sound simple and it is but if you have no experience with a combo like yours it may take a couple months of seat time to figure it out. If you're a seasoned boater then you should have it figured out in a very short amount of time. I do not mean to come off as harsh or a know it all. I have no idea what you experience level is...heck you may even have more seat time than me. just trying to help [IMG]file:///C:\Users\bxhl\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\c lip_image001.gif[/IMG]
    Not coming off harsh at all, and I do truly appreciate everyone’s input on this. This is my second boat, but first of its caliber. The first trip out it seemed to be spinning up, gaining rpm but not really moving us forward and it stayed nose to the sky for some time until finally making its way over. BUT, I was most definitely being very easy on the throttle. I’ve seen several of you mention that it’s fine/needed to give this thing some gas on take-off – I will be doing that. After everything I’ve read from the input here, I’m starting to believe I was just being too easy on the throttle and not giving enough power to make it on plane…kind of an embarrassing mistake but it’s definitely a learning experience…

    Trimmed all the way down, power to the floor, break plane, trim up, and adjust throttle accordingly…if I still see issues after this then I’ll start tinkering with the plugs. If my hole-shot improves after I follow this a bit more closely, I still may install the hydrofoil as I’ve read nothing but great things (other than looks) about em – figure it can’t hurt.

    Hope everyone is slayin em this weekend :D

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