PS31 amateur testing

[LWINCHESTER2]

I got a limit of walleye fairly quick today so I had a little extra time. I had prepared 70 ft of fishing line with a spark plug tied at 70,60,50 and 40 ft. The line was tied to a plastic gallon jug. Real surprising results to me. I could see the individual spark plugs varying a bit from 100 to 125 feet away. I did not see them at 150 ft no matter what I did. Really did not see a difference between 10, 20 or 40 degree settings. I was expecting the 10 degree setting to have more range. Also tried the PS21 and saw no difference. Same range.

Nothing really conclusive about this. I try again another time. Maybe I can find a time when the wind is calm. The wind made it impossible to get good screenshots because there is a 3 second delay been pressing the key and getting the shot. With a little wind, 3 seconds moves the boat and looses the picture. My theory was that the PS31 had more range. I did not see that today.

[Schins]

May have just saved me hundreds $$$

Too bad we couldn't set up a fund to help you do tests like these.

Thank you

[LWINCHESTER2]

A one shot test doesn't prove much. Too many variables. I really need to do this with no wind or waves. There's another thing I want to look at. That's how the pinpoint varies with the angle settings. I played with the manual gain some but not going to comment on that yet except to say that the Auto Med and Auto High worked better than a single numerical manual setting.

Ha! This was actually my second test. The first failed altogether. I used golf balls that I drilled holes through. I couldn't get anything to see them. Not Garmin, not Vexilar, not Lowrance. That's what brought the switch to spark plugs.

I just went through about 30 screenshots. I got one that was timely. Here it is.

[Schins]

actually it told me more than you think......that the 31 isnt that much more superior than the cheaper 21 in that scenario. For the exrra money it should have been

[LWINCHESTER2]

There are plenty of variables at play here. For me, at this point I draw NO conclusion. This is one day, one situation. The mounting angle was 45 degrees. I need to play more with the Gain settings. The PS31 was on the shaft. While that is a recommended way of mounting it, to my thinking there has to be some blockage from the TM torpedo. I did not compare the PS31 to the PS30 mounted on the transom. This was in open water, out in the middle of the lake. What about when it's near a sheer dropoff? I'm open to suggestions for situations that should be investigated to see if there's a difference. Spark plugs are not fish. The problem with fish is that I have no control over them. Using fish is difficult. The ones I catch usually have their air bladders destroyed. For my own purposes I need to move deeper, at least to 100 ft deep.

At this point it just interesting. Subjectively I still think the PS31 is the better transducer. Maybe it is, maybe not. One thing is absolutely conclusive. The screenshot function sucks. On a 7610 I could record a video. The problem with that is takes so much time later. Record the video to the phone, upload it to the computer. If you have a one hour video then it takes another hour just to preview it. More time to edit out all the boring parts and isolate the good shots. Any why? Because we don't have a good screenshot function. Last week I made some videos showing the PS30 with SideVu under it. After I started looking at the edit time involved, I just dropped it. It would be so simple with a good screenshot function. The way it is now is like trying to cut the lawn with a pair of scissors. It can be done, but it's not too smart.

[MikeF]

Ha! This was actually my second test. The first failed altogether. I used golf balls that I drilled holes through. I couldn't get anything to see them. Not Garmin, not Vexilar, not Lowrance. That's what brought the switch to spark plugs.

Guess I will go and return the old golf balls I just borrowed for from the neighbor.

Any other target suggestions and or spacing of the targets?

Is the goal of the test to find the longest forward range a small target will will be seen?

I would think it has to be really tough to keep a small target in view in a 10 degree area at 100ft, Panoptix or 2D.
About 17.5 ft wide if my math is correct.

I was thinking about this from your other post about a narrow beam and trying to stay on top of fish, jigging in 100-130 deep.

My thought was this lake must not get much wind! LOL

I think half the fun is finding out how little I think I know.....

[LWINCHESTER2]

The goal(s) are subject to change.
1. One goal comparing the effective range of the two transducers. Garmin lists their range as 300 ft. The same for both. I'm the one that thought I was seeing better range from the PS31.
2. A second objective is to compare the differences in the settings of 10,20 and 40 degrees on the PS31. Do all three have the same range? My thinking was that on 10 degrees I might be able to see farther, thinking there much be more energy concentrated in a smaller area. Again, just speculation.
3. On the PS31, especially at distances of around 100 ft or more, how finicky is the pointing using 10,20 and 40? At closer distances I clearly see the difference in the settings. I didn't see that dramatic a difference yesterday. I had to be pointed directly at the target to pick it up at 100 ft regardless of the transducer or setting. With a small movement to either side the target was lost.

I'm not sure just how useful this exercise will be to anyone. This is looking at a single target. My fishing is to locate a school of fish. 50-100 fish in a school is a whopper of a target. It's too much work to try to simulate a school of fish.

We do get wind, but the lake has lots of bends and turns and we are in the mountains so that makes a wind erratic. One section of the lake has a 5 mile straight. If it's a windy day, that is not the place to be. Rain, snow, hot, cold don't matter to me fishing. Wind will make me stay home.

[hays47]

What about using slightly inflated balloon tethered to a weight to simulate the air bladders of fish ? If you remember the old paper graphs. Partner and I used them to prove fish finding capabilities. He had the CH 60 and I the CH30. This was back in the 70's. Primitive compared to todays equipment but if I remember right the balloons showed up excellent. This was done in 11-22 foot of water in a place on one of my local lakes that still produces fine fish.

We used floating markers to test to see if angle of attack to known position of balloons had any affect. Both units showed on every angle the balloons. One nice thing about paper graphs. You always had a history of what when on. We used to study the paper recording like monks on the bible.

[LWINCHESTER2]

I doubt if a balloon would work at 100 ft. The pressure there would be 59 psi. I may try it. I read once somewhere that a balloon at 100 ft would expand to 4 times that size at the surface. I'd have to figure out how much weight would be required to sink 4-5 balloons. The reason for the multiple targets is to be certain that what I'm looking at is what I put there.

[MikeF]

Does the PS31 have three different elements 10,20,40 degrees or does the Panoptix system just show on the screen what is inside the selected beam area?

In other words, if 10 degrees is selected, is the system still at 40 degrees but the programming only shows what is in the 5 degrees left/right of center rather than 20 degrees left/right of center on the screen?

[Schins]

I expect a good improvement in range, clarity, and target separation from 21 to 31.

anything less than, say, a 40% improvement doesnt justify the extra money IMO

[coachallen]

I expect a good improvement in range, clarity, and target separation from 21 to 31.

anything less than, say, a 40% improvement doesnt justify the extra money IMO

Has anyone compared the 2 transducer yet?

[SHOTGUN RUSS]

A one shot test doesn't prove much. Too many variables. I really need to do this with no wind or waves. There's another thing I want to look at. That's how the pinpoint varies with the angle settings. I played with the manual gain some but not going to comment on that yet except to say that the Auto Med and Auto High worked better than a single numerical manual setting.

Ha! This was actually my second test. The first failed altogether. I used golf balls that I drilled holes through. I couldn't get anything to see them. Not Garmin, not Vexilar, not Lowrance. That's what brought the switch to spark plugs.

I just went through about 30 screenshots. I got one that was timely. Here it is.

Did you notice that the 40-60 returns are nice and strong compared to the 50-70? Was that just in this screen shot or all the time? Just an odd observation.

[shooter64]

tennis balls maybe would hold up better that deep if you could find a way to attach them?

[LWINCHESTER2]

Does the PS31 have three different elements 10,20,40 degrees or does the Panoptix system just show on the screen what is inside the selected beam area?

In other words, if 10 degrees is selected, is the system still at 40 degrees but the programming only shows what is in the 5 degrees left/right of center rather than 20 degrees left/right of center on the screen?

The Panoptix system is nothing like 2d transducers we are accustomed to. The PS31 possibly has 24 elements. The patent mentions a scenario involving 24 elements. The system is called multi-beam phased array. I do not claim to understand it. But by adjusting the phase, timing, and selection of the firing of the elements, a beam can be produced based on the menu selection. The PS31 software provides for 10,20 and 40. Not only can the size of the beam be selected or adjusted but the direction of the beam is also under software control.

[LWINCHESTER2]

Did you notice that the 40-60 returns are nice and strong compared to the 50-70? Was that just in this screen shot or all the time? Just an odd observation.

I never tried to get that close. I started at about 250 ft away and then moved toward the target to see when I could pick them up. I do pick up returns much farther away than my setup. But there is nothing else that I have that will tell me what I'm looking at or that something else may be there that may be missed. Running them both at the same time is just too messy.

I do know that I can see a 1 oz Mann-o-lure easiy at 70 ft. I've also seen a 1/16 oz crappie jig at 70 ft. And yes it does give a stronger return closer.

[fishin couillon]

I dont know anything about the Panoptix but what i see here, given the size of the spark plug in that depth of water at those distances and they show up on the screen that's pretty cool.....

[rnvinc]

Fishton uses ping pong balls for his tests ....

http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....ighlight=Table

These should withstand deeper depths ...

Rickie

[Treeguyus]

With my PS-30 using a jigging rapala about four feet above it, can see a small barrel swivel down to about 30' on the screen. Next trip out will keep a closer eye on depth and settings.

[mosin]

a baloon wont expand at depths, it would shrink wouldn't it?

a tennis ball would be suitable I think. Reminds me of the interesting sonar experiments done by ltbama on bass fishing page a while ago.