1993 Johnson Faststrike 175 Missing on few cylinders on Idle

[got_musky]

After running it this weekend it seems to miss after the Quickstart as well. It seems to be more often during the Quickstart mode; afterwards it seems intermittent.

[316jughead]

OK thanks, you need to check the other things out that we posted. Sounds like the motor is warming up quick, but I would test those head temps when the motor is completely warmed up, follow the service manual.

[got_musky]

Will do, been trying to get a hold of timing light as well. Should be able to report back on things to check this weekend.

Thanks

[got_musky]

Ok guys, I was hoping to check with timing light this weekend on the lake but I was not able to get timing light from work buddy until yesterday evening (after returning home) and wasn't able to run on muffs to do check. I will try to run this week. When checking, will it be obvious if checking for miss, even if intermittent?

On a separate note, I did run the boat a few times this weekend on the lake and noticed that the quickstart period worked fine the Saturday morning, but thereafter (rest of Saturday, Sunday and Monday morning) it seemed to stay in quickstart mode/high idle RPM. Yesterday morning I let it run for a good 10 min and it never seemed to idle down.

Sure is fun having something pop up while in midst of trouble shooting another.

[316jughead]

I've had that fun several time. The problems could be related. It's time to test the Quikstart, follow the service manual. If the intermittent miss is like a cough or a single sputter, it's possible that the motor is running a little lean at idle. A cold motor won't idle properly either, these motors are maybe more temp sensitive at idle than others.

[got_musky]

Alright, so heres what I found out tonight:

1. Motor does "cough" and during that cough it misses mainly on 5&6. I was seeing some also on 3 (if assuming when looking at the back of motor it goes 135 on left, down and 246 on right, from top down.

2. I tested the temperature switch, that appears to work fine

3. The instructions are unclear to me about testing the quickstart mode with the timing light. The manual mentions set the motor to 900RPM in forward. How do I do so if I can't get it to idle less than 1200? I went forward with the timing light as it says.
3a: With temp switch disconnected I do not read near 4degrees BTDC. What I see is the number 2 in the viewing window. On the miss I see a 6.
3b: With temp switch connected, I still read 2

4. While idling around 1200 rpm, I can push back the spark lever and it will idle down. When they did my carb bowls they also replaced the roller on the carb linkage (terminology?). Could there be an issue with the synchronization/linkage?

Hope this helps.....sorry I am a novice here so my terminology may not be up to speed.

[316jughead]

"1,3,5 on the right, from the back of the motor. If you are seeing a different number show up on the miss, it sounds like the pack is cross firing. Do the indexing of the timing wheel for erratic spark follow the service manual. How did you test the temp switch? Do you know the temp of the motor, was it over 105 degree's? The manual is not to clear on what if the Quikstart doesn't shut off, but it sounds like you have got it figured right. Is your power pack Blue in color? Read in the service manual the warning about using a timing light on these motors. Right now I'm getting 'birdy" around that power pack.

[316jughead]

We don't know what the idle timing was set at, possible that if it was set wrong, then the test would not be correct. That's assuming that the power pack is good. Look at the timing wheel for cracks. Look at the timing tabs are they set close to the center? Maybe post a picture, that might help to determine if the timing is set close.

[got_musky]

Hey Jughead, posting up pics for you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f...ew?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f...ew?usp=sharing

Thanks

[got_musky]

"1,3,5 on the right, from the back of the motor. If you are seeing a different number show up on the miss, it sounds like the pack is cross firing. Do the indexing of the timing wheel for erratic spark follow the service manual. How did you test the temp switch? Do you know the temp of the motor, was it over 105 degree's? The manual is not to clear on what if the Quikstart doesn't shut off, but it sounds like you have got it figured right. Is your power pack Blue in color? Read in the service manual the warning about using a timing light on these motors. Right now I'm getting 'birdy" around that power pack.

I didn't see this one.....

Thank you for clarifying the numbering. I suppose that would explain why I see a #2 w/ timing light then since I was checking with timing light on #2 spark plug wire! Which means I need to go back and do the two tests on #1 for the Quickstart test.

I am not sure about the indexing of timing wheel for erratic spark? I can check that, will need to find in service manual first

Yes I am sure the motor was over 105 degrees, and the switch was closed once over 105. After taking out a letting cool the switch opened; I did not confirm if it was below 90 but it appears to work.

Power pack color is black I believe? Am I looking at the actual power pack or the sheathing around the wiring for color? I will also have to read about this warning you mention for timing light

Thanks, hopefully we are narrowing things down. I can always take video and post up with google drive if it helps to see how things are w/ the timing light

[316jughead]

Indexing is in section 3 and the timing light thing is with the indexing. Your tabs are set in the center, I don't think I've ever set the timing on these motors where both idle and maximum timing were in the center, but it is possible. That sheathing color, blue, denotes a certain pack, if it is an OMC pack. OMC packs are black. I missed your added info, is the spark lever you pushed on the one with the big black roller? Check the throttle linkage at the carb roller, make sure that the carbs are closing at idle. The timing base may not be returning to the stop, in one of your pictures it looks like it is, it might need cleaning and fresh lube. OK, now before every one jumps on me, I said timing base not timer base, and it is called, on these motors the timing base.

[got_musky]

Check IMG_5865 again.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f...ew?usp=sharing

I made some notes on it hopefully to help explain, but I believe yes, that is the lever I pushed on. Then what about the timing? Is there something I should check on that as well?

I'll need to check if butterflies are are closing on idle.


I believe my pack has black sheathing, will confirm tonight after work.

[316jughead]

Yes you could have a timing and carb sync problem. The timing base is against the stop in your pictures.

You need to first thing look at your power pack, In your picture it looks like you have a blue sleeve. Verify that the pack is a OMC pack. Now here's the kicker, if it is a OMC pack with the blue sleeve, you have the wrong power pack on your motor. Your 1993 VJ175GLET "G" motor should have the OMC pack with a gray sleeve.

[got_musky]

How do I check if it is an OMC pack? Guessing there will be some info on there somewhere?

I see what you are saying about the blue sleeve now.....

Also, what about the spark lever? Should that be resting on the timing base?

[316jughead]

There should be a part number or other info on the pack. On the black roller, the gap depends on if you have a hot foot. Control box and hand throttle set up by the service manual you would have about that much gap. We set the throttle linkage different with a hot foot, this is not in the service manual. The real important thing here is that the timing starts to advance and the carbs start to open at the same time.

[got_musky]

There should be a part number or other info on the pack. On the black roller, the gap depends on if you have a hot foot. Control box and hand throttle set up by the service manual you would have about that much gap. We set the throttle linkage different with a hot foot, this is not in the service manual. The real important thing here is that the timing starts to advance and the carbs start to open at the same time.

ive got a hot foot. I'll check the PP hopefully tonight for a P#. The sleeve is definitely blue...

[316jughead]

ive got a hot foot. I'll check the PP hopefully tonight for a P#. The sleeve is definitely blue...

Also make sure that you have the model number right. I think in 1993 we had 3 suffix numbers, that's the last letter in the model number. Do you know if the power head was ever replaced?

[got_musky]

Not that I am aware of, but I'm not the original owner...

And the original info posted for motor was directly off the nameplate.

[got_musky]

Here we go sir:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8f...ew?usp=sharing

Looks like PP P# is 584990;which after doing a quick search seems to be compatible/direct replacement for the 0584985, can you confirm that?

Looks like I need to inspect coils as well, bottom looks cracked, even though passed bench test as mentioned earlier....

[316jughead]

584990 could be a number for who made the pack. Where did you find that it's a replacement? BRP lists the 0584985 as the pack for your motor, gray sleeve. After a closer look at the timing tabs, I think that the idle tab is not in the center and that's OK, it doesn't mean that the idle timing is correct, but it's more consistent with what I've seen. Did you check that throttle linkage at the carb roller, is there a gap and are the carbs closing?