ps21 cone of death

[MikeF]

My PS 30 (set to defaults) on Lake Erie with as "Seen on TV" results. LOL


From right to left on screenshot.
1st pic is 3oz bottom bouncer weight with a spinner rig/blade.

300417_1512_00II.jpg

2nd pic is eye approaching from left side of screen interested in spinner rig directly under boat.

300417_1512_01II.jpg


BAM!
Next stop, the live well.


20170528_133057II.jpg

[Larry3215]

Larry
I really appreciate your input and all the others trying to help.

The out of water pics are in post #19 of this thread showing 4 different gain settings.
Auto Med and Auto High show the cone.
It was basically the same on the water when I pulled the transducer up.
I did not bother with screenshots.



Lake Erie-1st pic is a 3.5 smallie--default settings--54 degree water--12 ft water clarity--sand/gravel bottom
2nd pic is same size smallie (5 min late) at a reduced gain setting( no notes on actual %)--notice the cone and fish signals compared to the 1st pic.
The ps21 is on a stick with a mount for @ side of the boat. The stick was mounted on the port side for these 2 pics so it did not have to shoot under the hull



My biggest concern is if I am adjusting the gain low enough to eliminate the noise blobs, am I also eliminating the fish blobs.

PS21---confused


PS30---As "Seen on TV" at default settings!!

Based on that and your screen shots, I would send you a new PS21 - if it was up to me :)

[MikeF]

This is my first video attempts ever and it was a challenge for this noob to get them edited and loaded onto Youtube, so be gentle.
Handheld phone video in the sun is not a good way to go. LOL

These 4 videos are probably not in order of the days events.

Maybe watching the videos will help to determine if I am asking for too much from the PS21 or it's just stupid user error or "Houston we have a problem".


Again, thanks for any and all input.


Vid1 is looking for the crappie with gain reduced. Notice both cone and structure is reduced also.




Vid2
Different gain settings looking at the cone vs structure.
As the cone reduces so does the structure image and vise versa.




Vid3
Screen is right after defaults restored. Gain was toggled over from default setting to see what the percentage was but was not changed. The default forward range was 15ft at so I extended it to 45ft to see the structure and everything else was left at default setting. With the higher gain the crappie can be seen in the center between the cone and structure at about the 29 and 40 sec mark.



Vid4
Different gain settings trying to determine how low we can go to remove the cone but still be able to see the crappie.
48 sec mark we see the faint crappie mark for a brief second. The log crib structure is now barely visible.
Enjoy the play by play commentary. LOL

[DonnieG]

Could not view any of the 4..

[Larry3215]

same here. You may have them set to private maybe?

[MikeF]

You may have them set to private maybe?

DOH!

Still taking the short bus to class.LOL

Can you see them now?

[TroyBoy30]

Use the garmin helm app for recording if your unit and phone supports it

https://buy.garmin.com/en-US/US/p/152837

[MikeF]

Use the garmin helm app for recording if your unit and phone supports it

Looks like the 93sv is not supported.

[Larry3215]

Now Im on the fence about your PS21. Its hard to tell for sure with the poor vid quality, but those look pretty good when you have the correct Gain set. The issue Im having now is that it looks like you have a super narrow range that works - which is not good......BUT...... It sure would help if all you guys with these issues would do what Todd asked for and get a split screen with 2D and PS21 at the same time :)

All of these PS21 screen shots and videos are only telling part of the story.

[MikeF]

Larry
Thanks for your input on this subject.

The issue Im having now is that it looks like you have a super narrow range that works

That is the thought I am leaning towards after the last trip out watching the cone, structure and crappie slowly fade as the gain is reduced.
Default setting is a useless on the ps21 compared to my experiences with the ps30 on the transom.

I will reinstall the GT52 to get some 2D/Panoptix split screen shots next week.

Which brings up my next question.

What settings on 2D do I use?

Defaults or adjusted and how much?

The problem I see is that I can adjust the 2D from a cluttered screen to a clear screen so what would be my valid 2D test adjustment point?
The 2D screen shot Todd provided as an example could have had the gain turned up for all I know.
Not knowing the gain and other settings kind of defeats the example of possible particulates in the water.
I could easily crank the 2D gain and adjust other setting until I have pretty clear 2D screen.

I think I will try to get the 2D/Panoptix split screen shots with everything set to defaults.
That way I will have some base examples.
Not sure if defaults reset everything at the same time or it has to be done for the 2D and Panoptix separately.

The quest for the Grail of Forward Panoptix continues. LOL

Props to LWinchester for when he took all that time and effort to do all those transducer comparison tests before.
Very time consuming.

Thanks again.

[Todd Driscoll]

Yes, regarding your settings for 2D comparison to Panoptix, just use default settings.

[MikeF]

Thanks Todd

[cactusflyr]

You have your ps 30 angled back. Never thought of this....trolling. Thx.

[Larry3215]

A lot of your images are very similar to GetReal's images - and they replaced his PS21.

Have you talked to support yet?



image1.jpg

Getting those split screen shots will still help.

[MikeF]

Have you talked to support yet?

No.
I held off calling support to make sure I had all my blobs in a row so to speak.

I was hoping it was just stupid user error and maybe some insight from the BBC guys could help resolve the issues.

I think we are going out again Wed.(weather) so I will get some more screen shots.


cactusflyr

You have your ps 30 angled back. Never thought of this....trolling. Thx.

The ps30 is mounted for a down scan position but you can tilt the sonar beam 45 forward degrees or 45 degrees backward.

I think Treeguy mounted a ps30 on an angle on the transom

[MikeF]

Here are a few videos from 2 trips out to the same lake this week with the default settings for the 2D/PS21 on a 93sv with GT52

Maybe it looks like normal operation or maybe not to those who have some on the water time with a PS21.
Any and all opinions welcome.




8/30/17--Wed ---3 videos--my regular boat and mounting.

1st--2D/Panoptix--default setting--anchored--slow jigging 1/2oz blade bait.




2nd--2D/Panoptix---default setting--anchored--fast jigging same bait.





3Rd--Comparison HB & Garmin--default setting--slow drift






9/01/17--Fri--same lake-- rented row boat-- 1_ 6hp pull start motor-- 1 small 12v batt for 93sv & 1 small 12v batt for Panoptix
2 drifts-- E to W from 25-8ft--default settings on units.

Get a cup of coffee as this is about 14 min long but interesting video as the unit auto ranges in default settings when drifting into shallower water.

[Larry3215]

Sorry, I know you spent a lot of time and effort on those videos, but Im having a hard time seeing the screens clearly enough to tell for sure whats going on. Too much glare and reflections to see the details clearly enough.

Did you happen to get any screen captures on the sd card during those times? An actual screen capture will be hi-rez and show details clearly.

From what I can tell on the 2D, it looks like your lake - at least some times - has a lot of junk in the water. Cant tell for sure but it looks like bubbles rising to the surface and other large and small stuff thats hard to see. I cant judge any of that very well with the glare/reflections etc.

On the Panoptix side its possible you do have some issues with artifacts, but again there is just too much glare to tell for sure. Sometimes it looks like it might be just fine, and other times maybe not - but Im not at all sure. The Panoptix side is even harder to tell whats going on than the 2D side.

If you're going to capture videos - does your mfd do Garmin helm? If so, capture the video on your phone or tablet, then post that video. There will be no reflections, glare etc that way, and the images will be sharp and clear with all the details preserved.

Other wise - just get screen captures on an sd card when things look "bad" on the Panoptix side.

Ive forgotten what you said - where is the 2D transducer in relation to the PS21? Are they both on the TM or one front and one back? In shallow water - like in most of these videos - having them far apart can make a huge difference in what each one "sees". Ideally, both should be front or back.

[MikeF]

Larry
Thanks for the input.

Yeah, sorry about poor video quality.

Not much I can do outside of buying and mounting a GoPro or something.

93sv= No Garmin Helm

The lake has a 20" water clarity as of Fri.
Interesting on the HB/Garmin 2D sensitivity settings video. Had to crank the HB way up and the Garmin down to try to match the 2D screens.
On a lark I just decided to turn on the HB

Looks like you have to click on the Youtube box at bottom of the video in the thread to be able to go to a link to view full screen. Don't know why it will not work in the link in the thread. Sorry

Didn't bother to take screen shots because the videos gives 50,000(wild a$$ guess) screen shots each time you stop the video frame by frame.

I figured nothing would be missed due to the infamous Home button/screenshot lag time.

Page 1 post#7 of this thread shows the transducers mounting on a stick.

I'll let it ride for awhile in hopes that others with a PS21 may chime in about their experiences and if it looks normal or not.
No one in my area that I know has a PS21 to borrow and compare with.

Going to a gin clear quarry pit lake in a week or two and will see how it looks then.
After that trip I will decide if I am a happy camper or need to contact Garmin.

Thanks again

[Schins]

I should have mine out Monday for only the 2nd time. At a damn wedding today instead

[Larry3215]

Ah, I forgot you had them both on a stick. Thats perfect.

Dont bother with a GoPro or trying to mount any sort of video camera. It wont help at all with glare, reflections and low image quality. The only way to get sharp, clear images - that actually show enough detail to help figure things out - is by getting screen captures on the device itself. Its also the simplest by far. In this case, KISS is truly the best way to go :)

Just wait till something shows up that you dont like or that concerns you, then press and hold the button. If its the kind of thing that just flashes on/off too quickly, keep trying.

Remember, the main thing Todd is looking for is to see if there is "stuff" showing up on the 2D at the same time the PS21 is messed up. If there is stuff in the water that shows up on 2D - weeds, algae, bubbles, thermocline, etc etc. it will last more than long enough to capture some shots. Those screen shots will tell most of what we need to see.

As long as there is 'stuff' showing up on the 2D, then you do NOT have a case for replacing the PS21. Anything that shows up on 2D can effect the image on the Panoptix.

What will prove you need it replaced, is if the 2D screen is clear while the PS21 screen is messed up. That clear quarry sounds like a perfect next step. Tests in the clear water - with nice clean 2D screens - will be very important in determining if you need your PS21 replaced.