Note that if you turn up the gain on any sonar, it should show the noise floor. That is all that is occurring here. The “cone” is because of the transducer angle and there is only data on part of the screen because the transducer is trying to compensate for the angle it is pointing.Originally Posted by MikeF
Garmin Pro Team
I had the Panoptix engineer take a look at this thread. Some of the pictures reflect either a thermocline or clutter in the water column, like this one engineers captured yesterday.
Panoptix thermocline.jpg
Other pictures simply have the gain up too high, which will show the "bottom interference" circular-pattern clutter. He didn't see any pics of a faulty xducer (excluding Donnie's shot). Note that future software releases will continue to improve noise filtering.
Garmin Pro Team
Well if there is nothing wrong in my pics then the Panoptix is unusable to me.
Email today from garmin
I have contacted my Subject Matter Expert and engineers for more information as to what could be happening here. I apologize that I don't have much information for you at the moment. I will get back with you soon.
Also note that various menu settings can drastically alter the Panoptix view/clarity. Some of these issues could be helped by going to Sonar Setup/Installation/Restore Sonar Defaults. For example, the two screenshots below were from the same transducer under similar conditions, with the second shot after the restore defaults.
PS30 clutter.jpg
PS30 clear.jpg
Garmin Pro Team
I only have the PS21 hooked up. The sonar settings effect the panoptix?
I don't see how. The Panoptix settings should be stored in the Panoptix transducer. I think he meant to restore the Panoptix defaults. It's the same menu choices if you start from viewing a Panoptix screen.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
Ya I reset unit to defaults already.
A couple of your screenshots look normal.
In this one there is something in the water between 10-15 feet and the Panoptix is picking it up. It also shows on the DownVu.
Then in the 2d it looks like you have rising air bubbles.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
In this one you are actually showing fish. You also have rising columns of air bubbles.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
I can see some pretty big fish on the 2D & DI, but only 1 red dot on the Panoptix.
Right. And they are in the history of the 2D & DI. The Panoptix is instant, no history unless you manipulate the TRAILS setting so they take a second to fade out.
My wife asks if I'm going to fish every day. I can't fish every day. Some days I might be sick.
Good point, Leonard
The screenshot in post#28 is probably shad on the DI with some fish busting thru them on the 2D. I saw them surface shortly after being chased by some predators breaking surface also.
Screenshot #29 is the end of a log crib and the air bubbles are from my stuck jig pulling on the internal brush while I verified the crib position.
This is a a screenshot of the backside of it.
150817_1123_00 (2)II.jpg
I took about 80 screenshots on the lake today and will have to take a day or two to sort and resize to show the results.
I took Todds advice and reset the unit to factory defaults and took a few screenshots.
240817_1020_01II.jpg
240817_1020_00II.jpg
240817_1020_02II.jpg
I should add that red spots in what I call the cone of death seem to always be moving and always just materialize and then fade or enter the cone area from the bottom or the left side of the screen, but always within the cone angle.
The spots never move from the right side of the screen to inside the cone.
Also, the spots inside the cone rarely seem to migrate past the cone edge into the right side of the screen, hence the cone of death name.
My friend the crappie guide was amazed and asked " How do the fish know to stay within the cone". LOL
The spots and their trails rarely show past the cone angle to the right side , as if they just hit a brick wall and stop.
When I get todays shots together I can show that reducing the gain enough to eliminate the cone will also eliminate a log crib structure.
There seems to be no happy medium to show structure without the cone of death.
If I have to reduce the gain that much how is it going to mark a fish?
The boat was set with 2 anchors.
Before moving from the last spot, we pulled the stern anchor and let the stern swing in the wind towards the crib.
Turned off the ps21 and fired up the helm unit and the ps30.
Night and day difference.
Clear as a bell and watched some crappie rise up and hit the 1/8oz spoons off of the crib.
I am at a loss on how to adjust the ps21.
Time for a cold adult beverage.
Did you take Todds advice and get an out of water picture? he also wanted 2D shots at the same time? They should be shots from a transducer mounted as close to the PS21 as possible. A split screen view would be best I would think. That way you are certain both transducers are "seeing" the same water.
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
What do you mean by "out of water"? I would just get a blue screen.
Like the pics on post#19?Did you take Todds advice and get an out of water picture?
No 2D shots. Went with LWinchesters previous thoughts and the GT 52 was completely out of the picture. Just the ps21.
1st up is anchored on a brush pile. Auto Low gain appears to about 84% in this case
240817_0720_00II.jpg
240817_0721_00II.jpg
240817_0721_01II.jpg
240817_0722_00II.jpg
Next is anchored on a wood crib. The 1st pic is the 1st screenshot after reset defaults adjusting the range to bring crib into view.
The reset defaults set the range to 15 ft as in the previous pic in the post above
240817_1023_00II.jpg
240817_1024_03II.jpg
240817_1025_00II.jpg
240817_1025_02II.jpg
Looks to me that the cone of death is directly related to the gain adjustment.
We anchored on all test areas so the Tmotor was unplugged.
My previous screenshots were with a Gen2 Terrova on spot lock which is more of an area lock as the boat can move up to 15 feet on spot lock. LOL
Wanted to remove the possibility of interference from the Tmotor and the boat moving.
My friend the crappie guy named the area between the cone edge and structure the "void". He noted that is seemed as if there were never any fish in this area.
To test, he hooked a crappie and used a 15' pole to place the crappie in the void area and let it swim around.
We did see the crappie, but I was not fast enough with the home button to get a screen shot of it.
If the gain was set from 78-84%+ we could see the fish and the also the cone of death.
If we dropped the gain to 75-70% or less to eliminate the cone of death, the swimming crappie was also eliminated.
Needless to say that he was not impressed with the ps21, but he had a good time catching fish watching the ps30.
There is a reason Todd asked for the 2D shots and the out of water shots. Both of those things can help a lot in figuring out what the problem is.
1) If your cone of death or blob or ray or what ever it is shows up when the PS21 is out of the water, then the PS21 is 100% for sure bad and needs replacing. If it does NOT show up, then more testing is needed.
2) If the blob, cone of death, etc does NOT show up on 2D, then again, that is a good indicator that smething is wrong with the PS21. If something does show up on the 2D, then the PS21 is probably fine and there is just junk in your lake that is causing the issue.
Both of those things can help Todd/tech support to make a decision about your PS21.
However, you need to get the 2D shots at the same exact time as the PS21 shots, so set up a split screen. Also, it will make a difference where the 2D transducer is mounted. Its best if it is also on the trolling motor if that is where your PS21 is. Other wise, it needs to be as close as possible to be sure both are "seeing" the same stuff in the water.
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
See my comment above.
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
I also get shapes and zones when my gain is set hi - above about 80% - which make the PS21 almost useless. BUT - I can still see jigs and fish, at least at close ranges like you are using it, when the gain is set lower. There is a realtively narrow "good gain" range most of the time. Dirty/stained/ algae filled water makes it worse and clean, clear water is much much better.Like the pics on post#19?
No 2D shots. Went with LWinchesters previous thoughts and the GT 52 was completely out of the picture. Just the ps21.
Looks to me that the cone of death is directly related to the gain adjustment.
We anchored on all test areas so the Tmotor was unplugged.
My previous screenshots were with a Gen2 Terrova on spot lock which is more of an area lock as the boat can move up to 15 feet on spot lock. LOL
Wanted to remove the possibility of interference from the Tmotor and the boat moving.
My friend the crappie guy named the area between the cone edge and structure the "void". He noted that is seemed as if there were never any fish in this area.
To test, he hooked a crappie and used a 15' pole to place the crappie in the void area and let it swim around.
We did see the crappie, but I was not fast enough with the home button to get a screen shot of it.
If the gain was set from 78-84%+ we could see the fish and the also the cone of death.
If we dropped the gain to 75-70% or less to eliminate the cone of death, the swimming crappie was also eliminated.
Needless to say that he was not impressed with the ps21, but he had a good time catching fish watching the ps30.
I think you need to do the tests as Todd asked, but I also think your PS21 has some issues. It looks worse than mine does for sure.
Smokercraft Phantom 202 Yamaha F115/Merc 9.9
Garmin 7610xsv/GT51M-TM/Panoptix PS21/LiveScope
Why am I hanging out here when I could be fishing.....
Larry
I really appreciate your input and all the others trying to help.
The out of water pics are in post #19 of this thread showing 4 different gain settings.
Auto Med and Auto High show the cone.
It was basically the same on the water when I pulled the transducer up.
I did not bother with screenshots.
The reason for a brush pile and a solid crib was to test against two objects with different density.
The boat was anchored so that the boat movement variable was removed. Tmotor in cradle.
The result were about the same for both types of structure.
I did not take a screenshot of every one degree gain adjustment.
The gain was raised or lowered watching the effect on the cone and the structure, one excruciating degree at a time, multiple times.
I spent the morning on my knees constantly pressing that gosh darn Home button.
The live crappie test basically shows that when the gain is adjusted low enough to remove the cone and blobs, it also removed the fish that was clearly seen between the cone and the structure.
As the gain was reduced one excruciating degree at a time, the cone blobs and the crappie blob both would diminish and eventually disappear at the same rate.
If the gain has to be set so low to have a clear screen, then using it to see fish the size of crappie (9") is darn near impossible.
Currently, it does not have the screen clarity as " Seen on TV". LOL
I know you and Todd are asking for 2D and the possible water quality influence, but this also has happens in 41 degree gin clear (30 ft clarity) Lake Michigan water, 54 degree Lake Erie water and now warmer (75degrees) water that may indeed have some particulates.
Nowhere in the manual do I see the requirement to run it along side a 2D transducer.
This is why I removed it from the equation.
The constant is the gain/cone relationship.
I seem to recall TroyBoy ran his PS31 on the default settings and his screenshots were stunning
The PS21 is mounted on a stick, not the trolling motor.
Lake Michigan-1st time out-- default settings-41 degrees- 30ft water clarity--sand/gravel bottom
120417_0913_00II.jpg
Lake Erie-1st pic is a 3.5 smallie--default settings--54 degree water--12 ft water clarity--sand/gravel bottom
2nd pic is same size smallie (5 min late) at a reduced gain setting( no notes on actual %)--notice the cone and fish signals compared to the 1st pic.
The ps21 is on a stick with a mount for @ side of the boat. The stick was mounted on the port side for these 2 pics so it did not have to shoot under the hull
030517_1455_02II.jpg
030517_1500_00II.jpg
My biggest concern is if I am adjusting the gain low enough to eliminate the noise blobs, am I also eliminating the fish blobs.
PS21---confused
PS30---As "Seen on TV" at default settings!!
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