Anybody try UV epoxy for gluing knots?

[DrewFlu33]

I've been super gluing my line-to-lure knots to prevent the knot sliding and burning itself as well as rolling super glue around my FG knots on certain rods to help them go through the small guides more easily (mostly to protect the line from all the collisions with the guides), but am tired of sticking my fingers together, particularly on those FG knots. I've used UV epoxy in the past for tying flies, but am wondering if anyone has tried it for tying knots? Seems like you could get a thick formulation, put it onto a knot and smooth it out, then hit it with a UV light and call it good without sticking your fingers. The really obvious issue would be doing this outside in the daylight, though I don't *think* the UV rays from the sun are strong enough to cure it that fast.

Anybody try it?

[RFeyoMN]

If you need to super glue your knots, your tying the wrong knots, or tying them incorrectly.

[DrewFlu33]

No matter what knot you tie on a hook, unless it's a loop knot, you cinch it down tight on the hook. When you catch a fish or two, unless you've glued the knot in place, it will slide around the eye of the hook. This burns it just like cinching down a knot without wetting it first. I used to think the same thing, that only a bad knot would break, until someone brought it to my attention. Next time you're out, tie on a hook and pay attention to how your knot moves around the hook eye when you catch a fish. Unless I'm improperly tying every knot I've ever learned, they'll all do it. This weakens the knot, and I believe is responsible for a huge portion of knot failures. My breakoffs go down dramatically when I glue the knot, no matter what knot I use, and the knot also won't slide around the eye when you glue it....again, save for a Rapala knot or something. I also think that's why Rapala knots are so strong. It's not that the knot itself is really stronger, it's that it's not cinched onto a hook eye and getting burnt when it slides around.

On the FG: I've never had a failure when it was tied properly. But I have had issues with it catching/slapping in the tip eyes on some rods where those eyes are small. At best this can make casting a pain, particularly if you're trying for a skip or pitch. I've also seen it fray the braid over a series of trips. Again, never had a failure, but I retie when it starts fraying. The glue prevents it from grabbing on hook eyes and prevents fraying.

[RFeyoMN]

Yup. Stick to the glue. It's probably best.

I guess i'm just lucky. I haven't had a knot failure from a knot that was tied correctly in many years. I'll usually wear out hooks before I wear out the line around the ring.

[RFeyoMN]

I can personally say this as well...i've been fishing a lot for many, many years...I cannot remember ever breaking off and reeling up a knot that was apparent the hook eye cut the line.

How does it happen to you? Often enough it's even a concern?

[DrewFlu33]

Maybe I'm wrong. I figure if I break off and reel up my line to find a little "half" curl on the end, that was a knot failure. It can't be that the knot just came untied or there'd be a lot more than a half curl. There'd be a pretty good length of "curly" line. So this tells me the knot breaks in the middle somewhere. I can't tell if the hook eye cut it by looking at it (and to be clear, I don't think it cuts it per se, I think it burns it and weakens it just like tying a knot without lubricating it before cinching).

So the question becomes why is the knot breaking in the middle. Well, it could be that folding the line tightly as is done in a knot weakens it. But I've noticed it doesn't happen when I tie onto a split ring or snap, or happens significantly less often at least. When you have a bait with a split ring or snap, the pivot between the bait's eye and the split ring takes the "twist" of fighting a fish. It only happens on lures where the knot eventually slides around where it's tied. I'm convinced it's the knot sliding on the hook eye or spinnerbait arm or whatever and burning it.

Even without experimenting and comparing when it does and doesn't happen, I think it also just makes a ton of sense - everyone accepts that line will burn itself when cinching down a knot if you don't lubricate it. It seems pretty logical that a knot sliding around on steel is going to burn it just the same, to me at least.

Going on that, I maybe average 1 knot failure per 10 hours fishing without gluing them. Probably 1 per 40 hours when I do glue them. I'm not saying I'm breaking off 5 times per day or anything like that, but that's still probably an extra fish per day when it comes down to brass tacks. Worth it to me to hit the knot with some glue after I tie it to catch that extra fish. Never know when it'll be a 6 pounder!

And if we're talking about the leader knot, having that thing last for multiple trips without having to retie it saves a significant amount of time. If I factor in the time savings from making less bad casts due to the knot grabbing in the guides, it's a no brainer. That's really where I'd like to use the UV epoxy, as the super glue works just fine on the line-to-lure knots.

[RFeyoMN]

That would be classic knot failure. It's heating and binding when tied. Most knots are prone to this. That's why I mention..."properly tied".

If your line was breaking around the eye of the hook, you likely be reeling up the entire knot a lot of times.

I know every time I retie, I put 10-15lbs of tension on a new knot, if it holds, it's good.

Maybe you can try to break your knots when you retie. If it holds, it's probably good!

[DrewFlu33]

I don't think you're trying to do it, but you're coming off as pretty condescending about this. Who ties a knot and doesn't yank on it to make sure it's strong?

[d'Wayne]

I usually just retie every so often, pretty sure I could retie faster than getting uv glue out, smooth it and cure it. Seems like a complicated solution for a simple problem

[DrewFlu33]

I usually just retie every so often, pretty sure I could retie faster than getting uv glue out, smooth it and cure it. Seems like a complicated solution for a simple problem

I'm sort of with you there on my line-to-lure knots. I shouldn't even have mentioned that, in hidnsight.

I really want to coat the ends of my FGs with something to get them sliding through the eyes better. I have a couple rods where, as slim as the knot is, it will still catch on the eyes. If I'm trying to skip under a dock or pitch into an area, it makes it incredibly frustrating when you've made the perfect casting motion only to have the bait kick up in the air and plop loudly into the water when the line catches. Stopping fraying on them is a bonus. The vast majority of this would be done in the garage the night before and not on the water. That's really what this is all about.

I suppose I'll just buy some and give it a try.

[RFeyoMN]

I don't think you're trying to do it, but you're coming off as pretty condescending about this. Who ties a knot and doesn't yank on it to make sure it's strong?

Definitely not. But to answer your question...maybe nobody. Maybe a lot of people.

I never heard of anybody gluing knots either.

[DrewFlu33]

Definitely not. But to answer your question...maybe nobody. Maybe a lot of people.

I never heard of anybody gluing knots either.

Fair enough. Also, sorry about being bitchy this morning. Rough night...7 month old must be teething.


I'm planning to pick up a thick formulation of UV epoxy and see if I can't roll it around an FG to smooth it out with some minimal amount of effort. I'll report back if anyone is interested.

[willwork4fish]

I don't think you're trying to do it, but you're coming off as pretty condescending about this. Who ties a knot and doesn't yank on it to make sure it's strong?

I just wet it, cinch it up and give it a little tug. I've always thought that if you pull on it too much you've already started to weaken the line/knot. I probably leave a little more of a tag than most too unless its an Alberto knot. I tie a San Diego jam knot with mono/co/flouro and a palomar with braid. Can't tell the last time I busted off because of a knot. Not that it makes any difference but I usually reach over and dunk my knot over the side in the water instead of wetting it with spit but that's just because I've usually got a chew in and don't want to get it on the bait.

[Bass AHolic]

I clip and re ty every time I change a lure, sure don't use any glue. and spitting on mono.. is like me soaking my nylon heeling lariat in water for a month, hoping it softens up its never gonna happen

[BigBass94]

I've used glue on my knots before, but only when connecting 2 lines.

[11pounder]

Fair enough. Also, sorry about being bitchy this morning. Rough night...7 month old must be teething.


I'm planning to pick up a thick formulation of UV epoxy and see if I can't roll it around an FG to smooth it out with some minimal amount of effort. I'll report back if anyone is interested.

I'm interested. I've had thoughts alond these lines myself.

[bassfly]

Try Loon UV Knot-sense. you can get it at any decent fly shop. It's made for just such an application.

Nathan

[Ladr6]

Is it a specific hook you are using that this hapoens on more than others? Maybe you are getting hook eyes with burrs in them. I am with most on this, knot failure is almost non-existent for me. What line are you using? Seems that putting glue on a knot each time woukd become annoying.

[Dennis S.]

Nothing wrong with gluing knots. I usually put a drop of glue on my FG or Alberto and smooth it with my finger, just for insurance and to go through the eyes smoother also. I have had a friend knock the eye out of his rod from the knot. The night before a tournament is when I'll tie new leaders and knots, so I will put some glue on them then. Probably just a confidence thing; nothing wrong with that.

[DrewFlu33]

Is it a specific hook you are using that this hapoens on more than others? Maybe you are getting hook eyes with burrs in them. I am with most on this, knot failure is almost non-existent for me. What line are you using? Seems that putting glue on a knot each time woukd become annoying.

Not any more of an issue on one hook brand than any other (I'm a Gamakatsu user but have used VMC, Daiichi, Berkley, and Matzuo at least and not noticed a difference), though it will happen more often on spinnerbaits that have an open "eye" at the top (as opposed to the twisted variety) that allows the knot to slide around more. I mentioned it before but the line to lure knot gluing is really pretty minor in the grand scheme. The glue maybe takes an extra 3 seconds to do as I keep a bottle of super glue in my pocket while fishing. I tend to use it a lot for gluing baits onto hooks and whatnot...you don't realize how much efficiency you lose by having to reposition a plastic on an EWG every 10 casts or whatever until you don't have to do it anymore, but that's a different story for a different day. Since it's there anyway and I'm probably about to either glue the plastic I'm about the thread onto the hook or a trailer onto whatever I'm tying on, I hit the knot with a drop while I'm at it.

I honestly believe knot failures don't happen to me any more than anyone else. Rather it's more likely that I just spend way too much time analyzing trivial things. I also might leave certain lures tied onto a certain rods a lot longer than others...for example, I may have the same Ned head tied onto a spinning rod for 3 or 4 trips. If I'm not scuffing my line on docks or something, I'm not retying that often. Maybe that's an issue - I do check my knots pretty often, but maybe it's a good idea just to retie every so often regardless of whether the quick "yank" test tells me it's fine. Anyhow, in my mind, gluing knots makes a relatively rare occasion even more rare, and this distinction is important enough for me to try to avoid breaking off the few fish that I do and to go ahead and glue it.



For those interested in results of the UV epoxy: I bought some of the Loon UV epoxy and tried it last night. It's not what I wanted it to be, BUT the caveat is that I wound up trying the "thin" formulation. This ended up being a mistake. I was able to build it up so that an FG knot was pretty darn smooth and really just what I wanted, but it took three coats. That's not really practical. I will say that it did exactly what super glue will do with the first coat, and that didn't involve me sticking my fingers together when I smoothed it around and into the coils on the FG. Maybe it's worth it to some for that.

Not that it matters, but....I ended up with the thin for two reasons. The first is that Amazon sold out of the "thick" right as I was ordering it (it showed 1 in stock then sold out between adding it to my cart and checking out - the next cheapest seller that had it available wanted something like $21 for a bottle of it). The second is that it comes in 3 formulations: thick, thin, and "flow." The flow version is apparently the thinnest and given that this stuff is used for forming up epoxy heads on flies, I figured the thick must be really thick - maybe too thick for what I wanted it for. So I ended up buying the thin.

I'm going to pick up some of the thick and try that. If/when that doesn't work, I suppose I'll have two bottles of UV epoxy that I'm certain will come in handy for something at some point.