Confused on what pitch props for specific gears/300XS/250XS

[AllyFishing]

Ok, so maybe not completely confused and I do know there is a "general rule of thumb" but i've read, spoken to and seen different 21 owners with various motors and gearsets running "like" loads and pitch props then one pops up that defies all reason.

Example, I just received a PM from a 21 owner running a Pro/300XS/1.62 combo and is struggling with an "anything" 28P prop to get out of the hole and I'm running pretty much the same load and combo and my 28 XOB hole shots great as does my Bravo. Actually the XOB hole shots better.

And then there's hooken with a Pro/300XS/1.75 combo and should be spinning the blades off a 30P and is struggling even with a 28P or 29P (correct me if I'm wrong Kevin).

What's the deal??

And there's Tim P running a 30P XOB with a fishing load on a Pro/300XS/1.62's and is able to get out of the hole with a fishing load 2 people and fish in the well.

We all use our rigs in different situations ie Tim running long runs (50 miles) where stop and go hole shots are not an issue and the other end of the spectrum like myself on a 985 acre lake looking at getting the hole shot quick enough (28P prop) that I don't hit the other shoreline before I get on plane!!!

then theres Ben at the rally with a 2+2/250XS/1.62's spinning a 28P bravo with a blistering hole shot with him and his father in law loaded. What the heck???

[fishnfireman]

[QUOTE]

Example, I just received a PM from a 21 owner running a Pro/300XS/1.62 combo and is struggling with an "anything" 28P prop to get out of the hole and I'm running pretty much the same load and combo and my 28 XOB hole shots great as does my Bravo. Actually the XOB hole shots better.

QUOTE]
My first question is what elevation is this 21 owner trying to run at ?

[atcje]

I've run everything from a 32 pitch (3 different brands) down to a 25 xob, the boat would hole shot with any of them of course the 25 being the best, but the weird thing is it would run 85 with the 25 and a huge load... perfect fishing prop for me is the 27 xob, small Lake or rough water prop would be the 25 xob, and cold weather or play prop is the 29 xob. Top speeds on all three is 85, 90, and 95 respectively.

[Jwolff]

A persons expectation/perception of "good" holeshot probably plays into it somewhat.

[Strokerdean]

The way the prop is worked will also be a factor.

[River Rocket]

The way the prop is worked will also be a factor.

agreed. I just did a shoot out yesterday between my 32 p4 BC, 30 promax, and 30 bravo xs. I will post the results in the next day or two. I data logged the runs so you can see speed vs time. The 32 p4 had the same hole shot as the two other props, but died off in the mid range but caught the other props at 90. Before the p4 and promax were worked the hole shots were well over 10 seconds.

Venting is a huge part of this for the Promax and the Bravo. My guess is the Hydro would be the same way. I calculated out the surface area off all my props and modified the promax to match the props with good hole shot. It went from a 15 second hole shot to 6 seconds.

Some guys will will lower the jackplate for the holeshot. I do not. If I did my 30's come out much faster. I will try this and data log a run so we can see how it really impacts holeshot vs not lowering the plate.

I just raced my boat a few weeks ago. I have spent a lot of time on the water data logging holeshot and finding the right setup with all my props. I ran my 25 bravo xs for the event. It is a rocket but I hit the limiter at 83. It does 82 in 1000'. It will launch the boat out of the hole at full running trim as well. If you want a short lake prop that is the pitch.

My definition of good hole shot is 3 seconds. 6 seconds is ok hole shot. Anything more is slow and sluggish to me.

before I modified the promax it took 5 seconds for the rpm to climb enough to start the venting process to get the prop to spin. The motor just bogged. In contrast jay with a 250 and 1.75's is out with the same prop in 3 seconds. He also has vent holes plugged. Jay is going to data log a run for me tomorrow so we compare his boat to mine. It should be neat to see the results.

I just got a 3 blade 28 to play with so I will be out logging the runs to see how it compares to the rest of my props.

[JWW9589]

agreed. I just did a shoot out yesterday between my 32 p4 BC, 30 promax, and 30 bravo xs. I will post the results in the next day or two. I data logged the runs so you can see speed vs time. The 32 p4 had the same hole shot as the two other props, but died off in the mid range but caught the other props at 90. Before the p4 and promax were worked the hole shots were well over 10 seconds.

Venting is a huge part of this for the Promax and the Bravo. My guess is the Hydro would be the same way. I calculated out the surface area off all my props and modified the promax to match the props with good hole shot. It went from a 15 second hole shot to 6 seconds.

Some guys will will lower the jackplate for the holeshot. I do not. If I did my 30's come out much faster. I will try this and data log a run so we can see how it really impacts holeshot vs not lowering the plate.

I just raced my boat a few weeks ago. I have spent a lot of time on the water data logging holeshot and finding the right setup with all my props. I ran my 25 bravo xs for the event. It is a rocket but I hit the limiter at 83. It does 82 in 1000'. It will launch the boat out of the hole at full running trim as well. If you want a short lake prop that is the pitch.

My definition of good hole shot is 3 seconds. 6 seconds is ok hole shot. Anything more is slow and sluggish to me.

before I modified the promax it took 5 seconds for the rpm to climb enough to start the venting process to get the prop to spin. The motor just bogged. In contrast jay with a 250 and 1.75's is out with the same prop in 3 seconds. He also has vent holes plugged. Jay is going to data log a run for me tomorrow so we compare his boat to mine. It should be neat to see the results.

I just got a 3 blade 28 to play with so I will be out logging the runs to see how it compares to the rest of my props.

I agree this is probably a venting issue. I have found that the Bravos and Hydros need a lot of venting to have a decent hole shot on my setup regardless of pitch.

[hooken203]

That should be some great data River Rocket. I think Jwolff hit the nail on the head here. I have to be careful here becuase I could be banned for doubting someones input but here goes.
If I put a 28 pitch RazorXL on my 21 pro 2 seat 300XS 175 gear I have what I call a fair hole shot. Then someone puts a 32 pitch on the same boat with 162 gear and says they have a good holeshot. Seems to me that is not possible. So maybe we need to define holeshot. As from idle in gear to XX mph. I have three props that I have been playing with 28 RazorXL 31 XOB 28 Promax. All of these top out at very close to the same MPH of 84 to 86. I have switched so many PVS plugs in these props I cant even begin to keep them straight. Need to write them down I guess. There is only one of these boats that I have seen that has a good holeshot. SCJ orange/white 2+2. All holeshots should be defined off of that one. I have had two of these boats that I have been trying to get holeshot and top end where they should be. Not there yet. The best this boat has run is with a 30 Promax around 87 mph. Craig I wish we would have got all the 21s together at the rally and done a holeshot comparison.

[tritontr21]

That should be some great data River Rocket. I think Jwolff hit the nail on the head here. I have to be careful here becuase I could be banned for doubting someones input but here goes.
If I put a 28 pitch RazorXL on my 21 pro 2 seat 300XS 175 gear I have what I call a fair hole shot. Then someone puts a 32 pitch on the same boat with 162 gear and says they have a good holeshot. Seems to me that is not possible. So maybe we need to define holeshot. As from idle in gear to XX mph. I have three props that I have been playing with 28 RazorXL 31 XOB 28 Promax. All of these top out at very close to the same MPH of 84 to 86. I have switched so many PVS plugs in these props I cant even begin to keep them straight. Need to write them down I guess. There is only one of these boats that I have seen that has a good holeshot. SCJ orange/white 2+2. All holeshots should be defined off of that one. I have had two of these boats that I have been trying to get holeshot and top end where they should be. Not there yet. The best this boat has run is with a 30 Promax around 87 mph. Craig I wish we would have got all the 21s together at the rally and done a holeshot comparison.

I think fishing loads, fuel loads, driver/passenger weights, power poles, trolling motor 24/36v, batteries (lithium or not) and expectations/perceptions all play a big part. I never personally run with water in the livewells and don't even run a full tank of fuel that often. Engine heights are also...i probably push the upper limits a little. Everyone had a zone that they are comfortable running in.

[xb03fs]

I have a 250xs 1.75 gears

I really like the holeshot of my 24 XOB it is great. Never tried to hit the limiter with it, it's a low70s ski prop. Have great holeshot even with a boat load of stuff and people.

27xob worked up to 28ish. Pretty good holeshot. Thought it was great before I got the 24.
Runs 84-87 depending on load and motor height

30xob currently has marginal holeshot in my opinion but it is my play prop that runs 90+ Pvs holes have to be just right and trim fully
Tucked to take off

[AllyFishing]

Craig I wish we would have got all the 21s together at the rally and done a holeshot comparison.

Yeah how bout it!!! I sure wish we would have.

Why don't we all define our holeshot in seconds from in gear idle, pedal to the floor (or if ya have to feather it to break over; doesn't matter) and the bow is level/down and beginning to take off. That might be the best comparison.

[MET]

I will play. Will post results in the next couple of days. Mine will be sloooooow! We'll see how it compares.

[NOTGSXR]

That should be some great data River Rocket. I think Jwolff hit the nail on the head here. I have to be careful here becuase I could be banned for doubting someones input but here goes.
If I put a 28 pitch RazorXL on my 21 pro 2 seat 300XS 175 gear I have what I call a fair hole shot. Then someone puts a 32 pitch on the same boat with 162 gear and says they have a good holeshot. Seems to me that is not possible. So maybe we need to define holeshot. As from idle in gear to XX mph. I have three props that I have been playing with 28 RazorXL 31 XOB 28 Promax. All of these top out at very close to the same MPH of 84 to 86. I have switched so many PVS plugs in these props I cant even begin to keep them straight. Need to write them down I guess. There is only one of these boats that I have seen that has a good holeshot. SCJ orange/white 2+2. All holeshots should be defined off of that one. I have had two of these boats that I have been trying to get holeshot and top end where they should be. Not there yet. The best this boat has run is with a 30 Promax around 87 mph. Craig I wish we would have got all the 21s together at the rally and done a holeshot comparison.

This doesn't make sense to me. ... my Prosport with me, my dad, Lee (700+ lbs) had a halfway decent holeshot and got up to 87.2 very unbalanced etc... 250 1.75's and 28 Promax. . I can't see how yours can barely do that with a 300... something seems off

[Jwolff]

This doesn't make sense to me. ... my Prosport with me, my dad, Lee (700+ lbs) had a halfway decent holeshot and got up to 87.2 very unbalanced etc... 250 1.75's and 28 Promax. . I can't see how yours can barely do that with a 300... something seems off

Lee has stated that having power poles like kevin does is an automatic 4mph off top end.

[River Rocket]

The 300 and 250 have different exhausting. Toss in 1.62's vs 1.75's and it makes a bigger difference. After the hole shot it will pull. They just need lots of venting in a TRU hub prop. I fixed the promax when I added a second set of 3/4" holes for a total of 8 3/4" holes. my hole shot does get better with more weight in the bow, but the boat won't run 100 with that much weight in the nose. It's all a trade off. Can't have everything. When jay sends me the data tomorrow I think it will be very clear. If someone wants to send me a 30p hydro I would add that to my results.

[JDM]

Lee has stated that having power poles like kevin does is an automatic 4mph off top end.

You will see 3 mph loss at least.
I think the pole and pump= apprx 32 lbs X 2 means 64lbs in the rear. Thats more than an anchor. If the pumps are placed in the very far rear storage boxes, you can feel weight change. But the air drag in the poles is dramatic (for sure).

[hooken203]

I really don't know why you would want or need more venting on a promax. I had a 30 and sold it because I didn't like the blow out it did. Found out that's just the way they are. I have a 28 that has been worked by Robbie. When I bought it it had 2 solid plugs when you punch it from idle it would shoot to 4000 rpm hang there then to 5000. I put a block off ring on it to fill the gap in the gear case took out the two plugs so I have 4 open holes 5000 rpm on holeshot. I dont have any time to plane numbers on this prop. Tonight I went to the lake with the 31 XOB 8 large pvs plugs I have to run these plugs or it blows out and hits the limiter with any less. Holeshot is bad like this 9 seconds from idle to nose down. Its going back to Hydromotive to see what they can do for it. There is only barely 30 hp difference in a 250 and a 300XS not a huge difference.

[River Rocket]

Here is a good visual. What speed to you want to call on plane? I was pulling tubers at 18 this weekend with my 25p.

20mph is 5 seconds on 30p promax and 30p bravo xs. The second image is my promax before and after I machined 4 additional pvs holes in it. Pretty huge improvement. This is before sending it out to be balanced and blueprinted. I just drilled 4 big holes in it.

[K-DAWG]

I think fishing loads, fuel loads, driver/passenger weights, power poles, trolling motor 24/36v, batteries (lithium or not) and expectations/perceptions all play a big part. I never personally run with water in the livewells and don't even run a full tank of fuel that often. Engine heights are also...i probably push the upper limits a little. Everyone had a zone that they are comfortable running in.

I think your right on. A fishing load to one may not be even half a fishing load to another. I run very heavy and you can tell the pics I post of mine in the water vs other 2003's with 3.0 liters on them my sit much lower in the water. My runs are made with the well full. I am not in a 21 but, I see the same deal. People posting numbers that I don't see. I think Lee is right about the poles I saw 78 with my fishing prop after installing the 8' poles. When use to see 82. Got me a 26 pro max to try. I am thinking I should see low 80's. Who is the best guy to tweek a pro max?

[hooken203]

River Rocket what does your RPM do in the first 5 seconds after you punch it?