Holy health care/medical costs!

[toofy]

The problem is that capitalism is fatally flawed. There's NOTHING in it's design to stop it's momentum.
Giving the opportunity, healthcare, it will eat it's way through our economy and collapse our system.
Like it, or not, that's the hardcore truth. For profit medicine is designed to take without any empathy.

I don't normally get involved with these discussions, and don't reveal personal info about myself like I am about to, but this is just too much. You obviously don't understand the concept of risk and reward.

I took a risk to take out a loan for over $300,000 to pay for my education....hoping there would be a reward and be able to pay it back.

After training for 12 years after college, I took a risk to take out a loan for $660,000 to buy a small business (a medical practice), hoping I would be rewarded with patients coming to see me and allow me to repay that loan.

Most importantly, in your non-profit utopia, what is your incentive for researchers to take risks in developing new treatments? I suggest that it should be the same simple (yet powerful) incentive everyone else uses to go above and beyond in their job....money. A close 2nd place (but similar) could be loan repayment. I have to pay over $9000 per month to pay back the loans I mentioned above.

3 years ago I designed a procedure that replaces a traditional treatment which required 4+ operations over a 18-month period to remove a tumor and reconstruct to normal function and appearance. I figured out how to do it in a single surgery. Yes this is profitable because only 3 surgeons in the country have figured out how to do this. This is a very stressful 10-hour operation and the risks are high. Now, I ask you, who will develop these medical innovations in your world of no profit? Money is not the only incentive out there, so please tell me what your incentive will be. Why should I stay late at work to develop something like this when I could be at home with my family?

[Jeff Hahn]

There has never been any Pure Capitalism. Would you like to pay tolls for private roads? Pay to fish in private lakes? Hunt on private property? and so on.

In pure capitalism, there are certain very important functions of government, besides guaranteeing completion. Thus, perhaps my prior statement was too restrictive. One of those key functions is public works...taking on projects that is in the great interest of society, but not in the interest of any private party. Building roads, bridges, dams, and even controlling pollution are examples.

[TampaJim]

Truthfully, you shouldn't have needed to borrow $300k for your education. That, in and of itself, is a tragedy.
And there's a VAST difference between personal rewards for you and insane amounts of corporate profit.
We have way too many idle hands in the cookie jar. It's estimated that only 11 cents per dollar is medicine.
The rest is falls to corporate profits (officers and shareholders), fraud, waste and administrative expense.

I do hope you don't believe that doctors in other countries don't work toward similar goals/solutions.
Beta blockers (UK), spray-on skin (Australia), pacemaker (Sweden), HIV discovery (France), Insulin (Canada).
And the holy grail of all medical innovation ... Viagra (UK). All countries with 'socialized' medicine.

I don't normally get involved with these discussions, and don't reveal personal info about myself like I am about to, but this is just too much. You obviously don't understand the concept of risk and reward.

I took a risk to take out a loan for over $300,000 to pay for my education....hoping there would be a reward and be able to pay it back.

After training for 12 years after college, I took a risk to take out a loan for $660,000 to buy a small business (a medical practice), hoping I would be rewarded with patients coming to see me and allow me to repay that loan.

Most importantly, in your non-profit utopia, what is your incentive for researchers to take risks in developing new treatments? I suggest that it should be the same simple (yet powerful) incentive everyone else uses to go above and beyond in their job....money. A close 2nd place (but similar) could be loan repayment. I have to pay over $9000 per month to pay back the loans I mentioned above.

3 years ago I designed a procedure that replaces a traditional treatment which required 4+ operations over a 18-month period to remove a tumor and reconstruct to normal function and appearance. I figured out how to do it in a single surgery. Yes this is profitable because only 3 surgeons in the country have figured out how to do this. This is a very stressful 10-hour operation and the risks are high. Now, I ask you, who will develop these medical innovations in your world of no profit? Money is not the only incentive out there, so please tell me what your incentive will be. Why should I stay late at work to develop something like this when I could be at home with my family?

[188Musky]

I do hope you don't believe that doctors in other countries don't work toward similar goals/solutions.
Beta blockers (UK), spray-on skin (Australia), pacemaker (Sweden), HIV discovery (France), Insulin (Canada).
And the holy grail of all medical innovation ... Viagra (UK). All countries with 'socialized' medicine.

And all those foreign companies had their eye firmly fixed on the US market when they took the financial risks involved in the development of those tools.

Don't ever forget that; it's importance cannot be overstated.

[jarhead175]

Truthfully, you shouldn't have needed to borrow $300k for your education. That, in and of itself, is a tragedy.
And there's a VAST difference between personal rewards for you and insane amounts of corporate profit.
We have way too many idle hands in the cookie jar. It's estimated that only 11 cents per dollar is medicine.
The rest is falls to corporate profits (officers and shareholders), fraud, waste and administrative expense.

I do hope you don't believe that doctors in other countries don't work toward similar goals/solutions.
Beta blockers (UK), spray-on skin (Australia), pacemaker (Sweden), HIV discovery (France), Insulin (Canada).
And the holy grail of all medical innovation ... Viagra (UK). All countries with 'socialized' medicine.

Of course their are doctors all over the world looking for cures pick a few to make your one world ideas feel better if you want but, the United States has and still leads the way in medical research.

"In real terms, spending on American biomedical research has doubled since 1994. By 2003, spending was up to $94.3 billion (there is no comparable number for Europe), with 57 percent of that coming from private industry. The National Institutes of Health’s current annual research budget is $28 billion, All European Union governments, in contrast, spent $3.7 billion in 2000, and since that time, Europe has not narrowed the research and development gap. America spends more on research and development over all and on drugs in particular, even though the United States has a smaller population than the core European Union countries. From 1989 to 2002, four times as much money was invested in private biotechnology companies in America than in Europe."

[CaymasMan250]

Good ol Jim makes it known at how well other countries have better everything, he think socialism is the greatest thing since sliced bread. My question is, why is he still in Florida? I'd buy him a one way ticket to to hug ever Isis member he can, fly his rainbow flag in any country he chooses, or pick the best country for his beloved socialized medicine.

[bobh4656]

Doctors in those "socialized countries" make money too in private practice. Unless you've lived there you might not know or understand that.

[Landar]

In those socialized Western European countries people with the means still by additional health insurance in order to get better healthcare.

[jarhead175]

Everyone that feels that socialized medicine is great fails to see that these are countries with small populations. Take Canada for example 38 million one state California has 39 million people. The V.A. is not single payer but is the closest thing we have and is a complete and utter train wreck. You really want the government having complete control over your healthcare?

[kry29]

Truthfully, you shouldn't have needed to borrow $300k for your education. That, in and of itself, is a tragedy.
And there's a VAST difference between personal rewards for you and insane amounts of corporate profit.
We have way too many idle hands in the cookie jar. It's estimated that only 11 cents per dollar is medicine.
The rest is falls to corporate profits (officers and shareholders), fraud, waste and administrative expense.

I do hope you don't believe that doctors in other countries don't work toward similar goals/solutions.
Beta blockers (UK), spray-on skin (Australia), pacemaker (Sweden), HIV discovery (France), Insulin (Canada).
And the holy grail of all medical innovation ... Viagra (UK). All countries with 'socialized' medicine.

Oh yea, I remember hearing almost daily about how good all those country's socialized health care is. Socialized anything WON'T work, period. You can't force people to do whatever, doctor, lawyer, mechanic, anything, and expect them to do whatever they're told just because you said so. That would be the only reason as pay would be equal so no reason to accell in any one field, no reason to work hard to get ahead or learn more. Pretty soon everybody is just looking for that monthly check without any reason to go to work. Sound familiar

[n2ratfishin]

Everyone that feels that socialized medicine is great fails to see that these are countries with small populations. Take Canada for example 38 million one state California has 39 million people. The V.A. is not single payer but is the closest thing we have and is a complete and utter train wreck. You really want the government having complete control over your healthcare?

I see our healthcare going the way of the VA. Some will get good care while most will get poor substandard care with horrendous wait times. The folks with money will pay boutique prices instead of insurance and get great care. This will only cause further division for America. As Americans we MUST get back to the Golden Rule or history shows as a country we will perish.

[TampaJim]

We absolutely, positively can't continue to be the world's provider/cop.
US population ... 310M. World population ... 7.5B. We are outnumbered.

The answer is hybrid ... basic essential health insurance for everyone.
Medicare for preventative and catastrophic only coverage.
Employers are off the hook and everyone has at least something to use.
ALL members of Congress get it, etc.

Beyond that, MediGap. Purchasable coverage at set rates and levels.
Commercial insurance companies can choose to offer policies to the public.
Which they pay for AFTER TAXES PRIVATELY AND BY CHOICE.
No more 'pre tax' deductions to subsidize health insurance companies.
It's time for EVERYONE to see what they truly charge.

This ends inequity among employers, citizens and providers.
And offers an 'opt in' solution for those with means/desire for more.
Plus the entire system is a privatized solution regarding practitioners.
And they ALL would take Medicare, no choice in the matter.

Our prices are STUPID, STUPID and BEYOND STUPID.
Outside of millionaires very few can afford a chronic illness in this country.
We chewed through over $650k outside of insurance coverage.
Can you do it? Think it over before being so resolute about our system.

[kybasser]

Dang, got the socialized medicine thing going didn't it? This discussion that is. Well my doctor has friends who live in Canada. He told me about how great the Canadian system is. He told me that his friends are restricted to how much money they can make each year. Normally, they make this amount by the first of September. The result is that they all take September, October, November, and December off. He said their patients just have to WAIT to get an appointment.

I personally have no way of knowing. I figure a doctor, mine, who was born in Germany, adopted by American parents, and has a worldly view has more knowledge than I when it comes to stuff like this, so I believe him.

I'm glad I'm in OUR system, and I thank the guy above who took that risk to become a doctor. For full disclosure, I am told one of my cousins is a doctor, but I never knew him.

[Al from Canada]

Dang, got the socialized medicine thing going didn't it? This discussion that is. Well my doctor has friends who live in Canada. He told me about how great the Canadian system is. He told me that his friends are restricted to how much money they can make each year. Normally, they make this amount by the first of September. The result is that they all take September, October, November, and December off. He said their patients just have to WAIT to get an appointment.

I personally have no way of knowing. I figure a doctor, mine, who was born in Germany, adopted by American parents, and has a worldly view has more knowledge than I when it comes to stuff like this, so I believe him.

I'm glad I'm in OUR system, and I thank the guy above who took that risk to become a doctor. For full disclosure, I am told one of my cousins is a doctor, but I never knew him.

Bullshit!! This is NOT fact at all and it absolutely amazes me that so many seem to know how things work in Canada without any experience whatsoever.
I've lived in Canada for 72 years and have absolutely no complaints and nothing I would change.

We'll just close this thread before more experts on how things work in Canada show up!