Questions That HB CS Couldn't Answer

[SoonerFan]

I've been trying to track down a fairly bad interference problem from my Ultrex 80 on my Helix 10 SI GN2. Both installed this March.

I have re-routed my wiring to the other side of the boat with completely dedicated 10ga wire from starting battery.
I have disconnected the negative from the MK onboard charger to the starting battery.
I have run a jumper from the negative on the starting battery to the negative of one of the trolling batteries.
I have adjusted the Noise Filter on the Helix from low to high 3.
I have turned off the Lowrance 520c on the bow.

None of the above has had little to no affect on the interference

I called Humminbird customer service today mostly to order a ferrite ring and ask a few questions about how to proceed. The lady that I talked to seemed to be new. She kept putting me on hold to "check on something". All she knew to do was find the appropriate FAQ and read it to me. I've already read them three times.

First question... I have read on this forum and elsewhere to run a ground wire from the skeg or motor housing to the negative battery terminal. What I'm not clear on is; does this go to the start battery or the trolling battery? If it's the trolling battery would it be just as good to ground it off on the negative at the TM plug on the bow?...or do I need to run wire all the way to the back? I'm a little nervous about drilling a hole in the skeg...thinking about clamping the ground wire down with the Transducer S & S clamps....just to see if it helps anyway. Thoughts on that?

Second question... On the HB website there is an instruction sheet that talks about a choke that goes from the onboard charger to the battery. I never could get the lady to understand what I was talking about. It seems like a good idea and would keep me from having to disconnect the charger before going to the lake. I've already gone back to a wing nut on that one connection just to keep from having to carry a wrench. Does anyone know abut the choke?

Third question.... The CS lady kept referring to a "trolling motor choke". I never could understand what she was talking about. It wasn't the ferrite ring because she would refer to it as the "ferrite ring". She's going to send me one whatever it is. Anybody know what she's talking about?

Final and biggest question.... HB is out of ferrite rings and won't have any until June or July. I will have assumed the position in front of the air conditioner and given the lake to the tourists by that time. Amazon has a large selection of chokes and ferrite rings. Does anyone know know what size or strength to order? They aren't expensive so I don' t mind buying it or ever 2 or 4 of them to get this thing right.

I'm sorry to throw up another interference thread...there's about as many as there are tires and battery threads but I just need some specifics.

HELP!

[375VTROCKET]

Don't know if you have tried this or if it will even help but some of things I did to help my HB998 c Hd SI.
1--I did put a ground from the skag on the TM to the ground wire for the HB. It helped some.

2--I also rolled up the Positive wire coming to HB in a circle (making 4-5 circles like you are going to roll up the wire) and then I twisted the rolls all at one time make a figure 8 and folding the figure 8 into a O and used wire ties it in a couple of places to hold it in this shape. This worked the best for me. I am told that power (RF frequency) gets confused or combats against each other thus stops at the loops.

Don't know if any of this will help you or not but these are the two things that helped me the most. Good Luck

[Syncros]

This post recommends a ring that has the proper frequency range for a HB head unit. http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=803455 I got the mix 77 with a 1.5" ID. My SI on the Helix looks about perfect to me but I don't have much interference without it. Edit the link to the rings you want are in post 5.

The Trolling Motor choke goes on the power cables of the trolling motor foot pedal. http://www.humminbird.com/Products/TMC-1/ I've never used it so I don't have anything more to add beyond the link.

You other questions are all beyond me as well.

[ntslam]

The trolling motor choke did provide help for my situation. Trying to solve the rfi issue can be the result of one thing or a combination of things. The one thing I recommend is do all testing with the boat in the water. The water gives another grounding element to the situation.

[SoonerFan]

OK, thanks guys, I'm getting some questions answered. With the links Sync gave, I was able to figure out what ferrite ring to order from Amazon. The other place required a minimum order of 10 rings for close to $100. I could buy just the one from Amazon for $22. Not a better deal, but I didn't need a hundred bucks worth of ferrite rings cluttering up the garage.

I also figured out what the CS lady was talking about with the trolling motor choke. It looks like it wires in series with the power cable to the foot pedal. Not sure if that will help but I will do anything to stop spurious emissions...a term that used to send my radio electronics class into Bevis and Butthead mode (years before they were created). When I was on the phone with CS, I couldn't get a picture of what she was talking about.

I paid extra for expedited shipping on the ferrite ring, so when it comes in I will tear into the bow panel again and at the same time run the ground wire from the TM to the negative power line for the Helix. Wish me luck.

[Rip Bass]

Soonerfan, the ground to the troller skeg you mentioned needs to go from the skeg to the ground of the cranking battery. You can usually do this via a ground buss bar under the bow panel or any ground up front. The connection on the skeg needs to be to bare metal.

[SoonerFan]

Soonerfan, the ground to the troller skeg you mentioned needs to go from the skeg to the ground of the cranking battery. You can usually do this via a ground buss bar under the bow panel or any ground up front. The connection on the skeg needs to be to bare metal.

There's a video on YouTube where the guy hooks the ground wire to the clamp on his transducer clamp. His comment makes me think that the clamp is as good as the skeg as long as it's in the water. Like I said in my first post, I'm reluctant to go drilling or ever scratching paint off my new $2700 motor. I might give the clamp method a try just to see.

[Syncros]

OK, thanks guys, I'm getting some questions answered. With the links Sync gave, I was able to figure out what ferrite ring to order from Amazon. The other place required a minimum order of 10 rings for close to $100. I could buy just the one from Amazon for $22. Not a better deal, but I didn't need a hundred bucks worth of ferrite rings cluttering up the garage.

I also figured out what the CS lady was talking about with the trolling motor choke. It looks like it wires in series with the power cable to the foot pedal. Not sure if that will help but I will do anything to stop spurious emissions...a term that used to send my radio electronics class into Bevis and Butthead mode (years before they were created). When I was on the phone with CS, I couldn't get a picture of what she was talking about.

I paid extra for expedited shipping on the ferrite ring, so when it comes in I will tear into the bow panel again and at the same time run the ground wire from the TM to the negative power line for the Helix. Wish me luck.

Here is a link to the mix 77 rings that you can buy single if the one from Amazon doesn't help. http://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite...0&sort=nameAsc

[Bass AHolic]

the Buzz coming from TM or Big Motor ? reason sometimes a Alternator will have a diode go bad mainly the ground one, and can cause rfi, it will still charge since + diode good. had that issue on my 1st Peterbilt, yea I hear ya what's a fricking truck got to do with a Bass boat?? had a hum in CB and the Kenwood Stereo at the time. just a thought. I went thru capacitors , shielded wiring and all that jazz over the years for CB's & 500 watt Linares

[SoonerFan]

Here is a link to the mix 77 rings that you can buy single if the one from Amazon doesn't help. http://palomar-engineers.com/ferrite...0&sort=nameAsc

The one from Amazon is the exact same specs. I like buying from Amazon because returns are no problem at all. I'm still trying to get a credit from an internet seller that I bought a RAM part from 2 months ago. Plus they'll have it here Tuesday.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Bradrodfish]

This Motor if it is within the last 5 years should have a ground ran internally already with a fuse in the head of the troll motor. That fuse could be blown or loose in the holder.
Do not tie cranking battery to troll motor battery at all. I will guarantee it will cause electrolysis. Especially if you have an on board kick start setup with a Peko switch.
Any grounds that are ran should be tied to appropriate system.

[Syncros]

The one from Amazon is the exact same specs. I like buying from Amazon because returns are no problem at all. I'm still trying to get a credit from an internet seller that I bought a RAM part from 2 months ago. Plus they'll have it here Tuesday.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Nice find! And I hear you on the Amazon thing. It's shocking how much I buy through them anymore.

[Jonestrollingmotor]

Ok, I can tell what not to do that you have mentioned. Do not run the ground wire to the skeg of the motor. The Ultrex has that ground alread built into the internals of the motor. There is a fuse in the head of the trolling motor in that wire. Check the fuse. Is this a 36v trolling motor and are you using cranking battery as the "third" battery if it is. I'm not sure about the 80 as I havn't opened the 80 lower unit for the Ultrex up, but the 112 alread has the trolling motor chokes on the positive and negative wire in the lower unit. As I said, I don't know about the 80. Also, in the head, under the IPilot controller, the positive and negative wire should have "twist" that help to negate the RF interference.
Sometimes running a 5a fused 14ga wire from the ground of the cranking/accessory battery to the ground of the battery that supplies the ground to the trolling motor will help - provided you're not using the cranking battery as a trolling battery also and providing you don't have some type of a "jump" switch to the batteries already. If you have a jump switch, that ground should already be connected.
I'm emailing back and forth with another member that has the "mega" unit and trying to eliminate the interference from his Motorguide.
John

[SoonerFan]

Ok, I can tell what not to do that you have mentioned. Do not run the ground wire to the skeg of the motor. The Ultrex has that ground alread built into the internals of the motor. There is a fuse in the head of the trolling motor in that wire. Check the fuse. Is this a 36v trolling motor and are you using cranking battery as the "third" battery if it is. I'm not sure about the 80 as I havn't opened the 80 lower unit for the Ultrex up, but the 112 alread has the trolling motor chokes on the positive and negative wire in the lower unit. As I said, I don't know about the 80. Also, in the head, under the IPilot controller, the positive and negative wire should have "twist" that help to negate the RF interference.
Sometimes running a 5a fused 14ga wire from the ground of the cranking/accessory battery to the ground of the battery that supplies the ground to the trolling motor will help - provided you're not using the cranking battery as a trolling battery also and providing you don't have some type of a "jump" switch to the batteries already. If you have a jump switch, that ground should already be connected.
I'm emailing back and forth with another member that has the "mega" unit and trying to eliminate the interference from his Motorguide.
John

I have the Ultrex 80/52" Link. Separate batteries for trolling motor and cranking/acc. Batteries+ AGM group 31 for the starter and two Walmart group 29 marine dual purpose for the troller.
I have checked the fuse you speak of...it's okay.
I have experimented with connecting a 10ga (with battery clips) to neg of cranking battery to the negative of troller battery lead going to bow.
No jumper switch, just a main power switch for the main battery. No type of switch on trolling batteries.

Here's is a good example of the type of interference I'm getting. Easy to see power on...power off...power on. I also noticed that the interference is either gone or greatly diminished on the top speed, 10 setting.

[jimmybass2]

Sooner,
2 quick things...

I had to disconnect BOTH sides (+/-) of my Guest 4 bank charger to remove significant interference. I added a 2 wire quick disconnect to the charger leads for the running/FF battery accomplish this. Might want to give that a try.

When I run a jumper from the - side of the running battery to the TM batteries, my screens EXPLODE with interference when the TM is used!!! Works for some, but not for all...

[SoonerFan]

Sooner,
2 quick things...

I had to disconnect BOTH sides (+/-) of my Guest 4 bank charger to remove significant interference. I added a 2 wire quick disconnect to the charger leads for the running/FF battery accomplish this. Might want to give that a try.

When I run a jumper from the - side of the running battery to the TM batteries, my screens EXPLODE with interference when the TM is used!!! Works for some, but not for all...

That's one thing I haven't tried...just the neg side. I'll give that a try. The jumper from one side to the other had no effect at all.

I'm looking forward to installing the ferrite ring. That seems like my best bet to fix this.

Also, before anyone asks, yes I have updated the software.

[SoonerFan]

They just delivered the trolling motor choke from HB (MAN! that was fast!). This thing is a beast...must weigh a pound. I bet this thing could choke out a clear channel AM station.

John,
you said you weren't sure about the 80 having a choke or not. I'm not comfortable opening the lower unit. I'll check the fuse again and the wiring in the head.

Should I install this choke. Will it do any harm if I install it and it turns out that there already is one?

[Jonestrollingmotor]

John,
you said you weren't sure about the 80 having a choke or not. I'm not comfortable opening the lower unit. I'll check the fuse again and the wiring in the head.

Should I install this choke. Will it do any harm if I install it and it turns out that there already is one?

won't do any harm and I would go ahead and install this one.
John

[SoonerFan]

Yea!!!!! I solved my interference problem. I spent 3 days re-rigging all the wiring to the bow....

Re-routed the 24v Trolling motor cable to a different hole in the bow panel so it doesn't cross the Helix power and transducer wiring .
Installed the Trolling Motor Choke.
Installed the Mix 77 ferrite ring...got 13 wraps on that one.
Wired up a ground wire from the TM lower unit to the negative side of the dedicated wiring to the Helix. I didn't drill a hole in the skeg like what it instructed. Instead I used a crimp on lug and anchored it under the clamp for the Transducer Shield. I ran that up the shaft along with the transducer cable using Cobra cable ties. I figured that the cable ties not only manage the two wires but also get a gap between the shaft and the cable.


I tested it out yesterday and I'm very happy with the change. I don't know which modification solved the problem or it each one contributed equally. I didn't unhook the onboard charger or turn off the old Lowrance 520c on the bow. I was hoping to solve this without doing that and it seemed to be okay. Now I'm getting images like this....

[5BigKeepers]

I've been trying to track down a fairly bad interference problem from my Ultrex 80 on my Helix 10 SI GN2. Both installed this March.

I have re-routed my wiring to the other side of the boat with completely dedicated 10ga wire from starting battery.
I have disconnected the negative from the MK onboard charger to the starting battery.
I have run a jumper from the negative on the starting battery to the negative of one of the trolling batteries.
I have adjusted the Noise Filter on the Helix from low to high 3.
I have turned off the Lowrance 520c on the bow.

None of the above has had little to no affect on the interference

I called Humminbird customer service today mostly to order a ferrite ring and ask a few questions about how to proceed. The lady that I talked to seemed to be new. She kept putting me on hold to "check on something". All she knew to do was find the appropriate FAQ and read it to me. I've already read them three times.

First question... I have read on this forum and elsewhere to run a ground wire from the skeg or motor housing to the negative battery terminal. What I'm not clear on is; does this go to the start battery or the trolling battery? If it's the trolling battery would it be just as good to ground it off on the negative at the TM plug on the bow?...or do I need to run wire all the way to the back? I'm a little nervous about drilling a hole in the skeg...thinking about clamping the ground wire down with the Transducer S & S clamps....just to see if it helps anyway. Thoughts on that?

Second question... On the HB website there is an instruction sheet that talks about a choke that goes from the onboard charger to the battery. I never could get the lady to understand what I was talking about. It seems like a good idea and would keep me from having to disconnect the charger before going to the lake. I've already gone back to a wing nut on that one connection just to keep from having to carry a wrench. Does anyone know abut the choke?

Third question.... The CS lady kept referring to a "trolling motor choke". I never could understand what she was talking about. It wasn't the ferrite ring because she would refer to it as the "ferrite ring". She's going to send me one whatever it is. Anybody know what she's talking about?

Final and biggest question.... HB is out of ferrite rings and won't have any until June or July. I will have assumed the position in front of the air conditioner and given the lake to the tourists by that time. Amazon has a large selection of chokes and ferrite rings. Does anyone know know what size or strength to order? They aren't expensive so I don' t mind buying it or ever 2 or 4 of them to get this thing right.

I'm sorry to throw up another interference thread...there's about as many as there are tires and battery threads but I just need some specifics.

HELP!

I have not read all the replies...BUT - the last picture you posted with all the metal looking clamps(?).. that is inviting interference..
I have installed scores of Lowrance/Humminbird/Garmin units without ONE instance of interference or any issues!!

First... the POWER + and GROUND - wires to ALL/ANY electronics MUST be ran off their respective buse bar - NOT THE BATTERY!! 12ga. wire a minimum with inline waterproof blade fuse holder . Never use any type metal clamp of any kind to secure ANYTHING to the trolling motor(including the transducer!!) Wrap a 3/32 thick x 2" wide piece of rubber completely around the trolling motor foot where the transducer sits and a BIG THICK cable/zip tie to wrap around the foot to secure the transducer. Use cable/zip ties to secure the transducer cable (AFTER it is wrapped in protective conduit) to the shaft. ALWAYS wrap ALL the electronics wiring in protective conduit.

If you cannot accomplish this yourself -- PLEASE find a competent mechanic/installer.