Thoughts

[GetReel]

This would make sense as to why I can't pick up trees as well as buddies can with Lowrance/Birds... Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy with my Garmins but certainly wish the side/down imaging was more vivid

[Treeguyus]

A bunch of folks asked questions - just on this forum - about what was the difference between the GT52/CV52. They were told that the only difference was a minor change in beam width between the CV52 and the GT52. There was not even a hint that the down element had been removed and that they were going back to older/outdated technology.

In light of this information, they were flat out lied to.

I would be really pissed if it was me.

Many are as stated on other sites, Garmin needs to respond very soon...

[Larry3215]

Yeah, Lowrance is blasting that video and webpage all over the place in emails to customers and in other places.

The really bad part of this for Garmin isnt the fact their down and sidevu are inferior.

Its that they have deceived their customers. Once trust is broken, its very very hard to get it back.

[Treeguyus]

Yeah, Lowrance is blasting that video and webpage all over the place in emails to customers and in other places.

The really bad part of this for Garmin isnt the fact their down and sidevu are inferior.

Its that they have deceived their customers. Once trust is broken, its very very hard to get it back.

Larry, I have all three on my boat comparing side by side for DS/SS in order of performance. No question Bird is the best

AAAAAAAA: Hummingbird
AAAAAAA: Lowrance
AAA: Garmin

[Larry3215]

I agree with you - and MonteSS!! :)

My 3 year old Humminbird 598 had better side and down that my new 7610/GT51. Garmins side and down are not really "bad", but definitely not at the top.

This is a link to the email they are sending out.

http://www.lowrance.com/true-downscan

[Treeguyus]

Yeah, Lowrance is blasting that video and webpage all over the place in emails to customers and in other places.

The really bad part of this for Garmin isnt the fact their down and sidevu are inferior.

Its that they have deceived their customers. Once trust is broken, its very very hard to get it back.

Exactly Larry.

Larry, thinking it was last winter. Someone I know with Garmin eluded to this and possible repercussions.

Friends of mine were pointing out that they were seeing more fish with their HB compared to my Lowrance units. Realized in the comparison was using a 10 degree cone angle ducer to the their well 20-33 degree cone angle ducer on their HB's, no one really knows actual with HB. Not comparing apples/apples. Marketing forces the hand at times.

See how this plays out

[Treeguyus]

Funny how I was always put down for sayin that Garmin Di and Si sucked. Now everybody says it. I dont rely on those two screens that much and Garmin 2d is top notch as well as the Panoptix.

Yes you did Monte, saw it in side to side like you did.

[TroyBoy30]

Larry, I have all three on my boat comparing side by side for DS/SS in order of performance. No question Bird is the best

AAAAAAAA: Hummingbird
AAAAAAA: Lowrance
AAA: Garmin

Put raymarine in there after lowrance. Side and down images have always been the weakness of Garmin just like 2d is to hummingbird or side was to lowrance. None of them are perfect. I love everything else about them though

This also only affects users with a clearvu transducer. Most of us have a gt transducer that does have a down element

[Treeguyus]

Put raymarine in there after lowrance. Side and down images have always been the weakness of Garmin just like 2d is to hummingbird or side was to lowrance. None of them are perfect. I love everything else about them though

This also only affects users with a clearvu transducer. Most of us have a gt transducer that does have a down element

Thanks Troy, don't have a Raymarine unit to compare so the reason left out....but wondering performance...now we know....thanks again

[mobassing]

So with taking all of the above in then if a person was buying at this time and was not planning on ever buying a Panoptix the most logical thing to buy would be Lowrance or a Humminbird?
With that being said when I am ever in a business that carry all and talking to the salesmen I most often am led to the Garmin units and most talk about their usability.
Many of us are fisherman with fancy toys and never learn all that there is to learn about our toys. We go to the lake with good intentions and start out playing with our units and then either because of hitting a snag in the operation of the unit or starting to catch fish it is at some times easier to just fish.
I think the most important thing is to have units that you understand and are adequate in the use of. We can but the most expensive units that are made but if it is above our knowledge level then we have a unit that is of little help and a hole in our wallet.

[LWINCHESTER2]

What a mess!!!!! Garmin should have seen this coming. Now what will they say? What will they do? I am not optimistic about how they will deal with this. For example, apparently there is some issue as to whether the transducer is boxed with the unit or sold separately. So one question at hand is if you buy a GT transducer with the down element, does the software actually use or ignore that element?

My comments on side and down performance don't apply to 99% of the electronics users. I'm sure most of you will remember that seeing that super crisp detail TO SCALE!!! is not my thing. I have consistently preferred a distorted view. When the range is set to 100+ ft the fish represented are so small they are difficult to see. I want them exaggerated. My ideal front to back cone on side and down would be about 4-5 degrees, completely distorting the structure and making the suspended fish much larger. 99% of you want just the opposite; the most crisp and finely tuned detail and accurate to scale and certainly have the right to your preference. About a year ago I did a head to head comparison of the LSS1 and the GT50, and posted the screenshots. It was hard to pick one over the other, using detail as the measuring stick. I think it was a fair comparison, done without bias or prejudice, and I stand by it. As far as detail goes I think this is Garmins best transducer for that purpose.

Absent direct use and a fair head to head test, we rely on users and pros who post their best obtained images which come from different situations. That has value too. I don't think there has ever been any debate as to who had the absolute best side imaging using detail as the measuring stick. It's Humminbird. And now with their new MEGA if there has ever been any question there shouldn't be. Also the absolute best down imaging, again using the detail as the measuring stick, seems to consistently been Lowrance. Even though they have licensed it to other companies, it look like they held something back to keep an edge. The comments about rating Bird, Lowrance and Garmin span the range from glorious worship of one to claiming another completely sucks depending on what your measuring stick is and the affinity to that measuring stick. Take a deep breath. The best I can tell, even with the lawsuit, software upgrades and change from DownVu to ClearVu, my GT transducers perform exactly the same now as they did when I put them on the boat. How do the ClearVu xd's perform. I don't know. Am I disappointed with how Garmin has dealt with this? Certainly! Am I seeing a performance change using GT transducers? No! If side imaging detail is the single most important thing in world to you, go buy a Humminird MEGA, be happy, and I'll be happy for you. If down imaging detail is the single most important thing in the world to you, go buy a Lowrance Carbon, be happy, and I'll be happy for you.

Since I've been running Panoptix Forward and Down, I run three units. Each unit has two or three panels displayed. Down imaging is not even displayed on any panel. So I really don't care whose is the best or worst. Even so, it is going to say something about Garmin, as a company, how they deal with all this. I'm all ears. They already screwed up so now it looks like what we will be measuring is just how much more damage will come.

[rnvinc]

That's a hard question to answer. I have and use the original GT50,GT51, & GT52 that all have the down element. With a recent software upgrade all the DownVu terminology changed to ClearVu.So I don't know whether the new software ignores the down element. My guess would be probably.

Rolling back the software to an earlier version is not something I'd consider. It can be done, but I was told if it didn't work correctly there was a good chance the unit would be bricked and have to be sent in to Garmin.

Note...: not singling out Leonard... but using his verbiage as to help my point in this discussion ...
-----

My only point (in asking which units or software versions allow using the older DownVu xducer and it's dedicated DownVu technology) is to ascertain valid info into how to advise some users in their question of how to utilize dedicated DownVu in the older DownVu xducer ...

If there's a unit model (or software version) that disables the dedicated DownVu technology (and Garmin advises never reverting to older software) = there are certainly users who would hold their current unit (and/or software version)...to continue their utilization of the older xducer dedicated DownVu technology ...

Rickie.

[GetReel]

Garmin has been top notch for me as far as customer service, usability, traditional sonar and general use. I love my panoptix and how easy these units are to use, so depending on what comes of this, it probably won't affect me but it is unsettling to say the least.

[khart]

Very disapointed these units don't come cheap and i just purchased and installed a new garmin 73CV on my TM and was planning to install the 93SV at my console. Forsure not going to add another Garmin until I see how this pans out.

[Treeguyus]

Good comments and know Garmin monitors this site..

[Treeguyus]

So with taking all of the above in then if a person was buying at this time and was not planning on ever buying a Panoptix the most logical thing to buy would be Lowrance or a Humminbird?
With that being said when I am ever in a business that carry all and talking to the salesmen I most often am led to the Garmin units and most talk about their usability.
Many of us are fisherman with fancy toys and never learn all that there is to learn about our toys. We go to the lake with good intentions and start out playing with our units and then either because of hitting a snag in the operation of the unit or starting to catch fish it is at some times easier to just fish.
I think the most important thing is to have units that you understand and are adequate in the use of. We can but the most expensive units that are made but if it is above our knowledge level then we have a unit that is of little help and a hole in our wallet.

Honestly MO for 2D LCX 37, 38, HDS 8 Gen I or two are my to go units.

[skid00skid00]

I *just* created an auction to sell my 7sv *yesterday evening*. Now I find out my replacement 93sv probably has a deactivated DownVu transducer (due to updated software...)...

I'm wondering if I should keep my 7sv... :(

And I was considering upgrading to a 1242xsv...

[Larry3215]

Its not a software issue. Garmin removed the down element from the transducer. Instead of having three crystals/elements inside - 2 for sidevu and a third in the center for downvu/clearvu, the new CV transducers only have the two sidevu elements. They use software to "stitch" the two side views together to simulate the donwvu/clearvu images.

This is what Hummonbird and others did in the past. It is the old, outdated, inferior way to do downvu.

Todd just answered my question about the software using the donw elements on the GT transducers. He says that if you have a transducer that DOES have a true down element, the software DOES use it. So at least there is that.

Originally Posted by Larry3215 View Post
Todd - the question has been asked if the current software will take advantage of the dedicated down elements in the GT series or do the use the same processing thats done with the CV transducers?

In other words, is the GT transducers performance being crippled or degraded by the CV software?

From Todd:

No, GT performance is not hindered in any way. With a GT transducer, the software fully utilizes all of the elements in that design.

[puhlw]

I'm a not confused. Almost all the transducers in Carmina website are "GT" models.

[puhlw]

Garmin website not carmina