starting battery question

[coreynov902]

I am looking for a new starting battery for my 1999 Mercury 175 EFI (serial number 0G944199). I also have my electronics and bilge and aerator pumps running off the same battery. I was going to get a marine deep cycle battery, but was told that Mercury doesn't approve of those because of something to do with longer charging times adversely affecting some components of the motor. Is this correct? Is it just a recommendation? I really don't want to add a 4th battery just to run the electronics and pumps if I don't have to.

[EuropeanAM]

Recommendation is ONE CRANKING BATTERY of the wet-cell variety. There are several suitable batteries to accomplish what you're wanting to do.

DON'T use Maintenance Free, AGM, or Deep Cycle Batteries with your stator-type charging system, as it can indeed over-tax the charging system (causing damage).

[coreynov902]

Do you have a certain battery that you use or tend to see quite often for use as the starting battery and electronics battery?

[EuropeanAM]

BATTERIES THAT MEET THE REQUIREMENT

-Cabela's (X900-31 (New Addition to list)) **
-Batteries Plus X2Power BCI Group 31M (SLI31AGMDPM) **
-Odyessy 31M-PC2150 **

[coreynov902]

EuropeanAM, thanks for the recommendations. But isn't the Cabela's battery an AGM (which you said not to use)?

[EuropeanAM]

You're absolutely right.

Try this one:

Nice Big Monster Wet-Cell

[DrewFlu33]

You're absolutely right.

Try this one:

Nice Big Monster Wet-Cell

So glad this question was asked. I've been eyeing these commercial batteries for my set up's next cranking battery and had been wondering what Mr. Weed would have to say on the matter!

I believe that's also the same battery as the Duracell Commercial that's sold at Sam's Club and Batteries Plus. It checks in right at $100 those places. It's an East Penn commercial battery (Deka). Sam's Club Link For whatever reason it's impossible (for me at least) to find a specific battery on Batteries Plus's website without putting in vehicle information, but I'm 99% sure they have it at the same price (or it can be had at the same price with discounts) if you're not a Sam's member or don't have one around. The Super Start line at O'Reilly auto is also all East Penn, and they have the same one for $112 in my market: O'Reilly Link

NAPA also has a commercial wet cell for about the same price (~$160 in the Twin Cities market) as the one linked that has even more cojones - 1125 cca and 1380 ca. Also made by East Penn, but the prevailing opinion seems to be that they've hopped it up a bit for NAPA. NAPA link

Hopefully the links work, and maybe I've contributed something to Don's repertoire of battery recommendations! Lord knows I've benefited from all the suggestions he's made to me and to others with motors similar to mine since I've been perusing these forums!

[coreynov902]

European and Drew...thanks so much for the recommendations! And yes, the links all work.

[yukonjack2]

So glad this question was asked. I've been eyeing these commercial batteries for my set up's next cranking battery and had been wondering what Mr. Weed would have to say on the matter!

I believe that's also the same battery as the Duracell Commercial that's sold at Sam's Club and Batteries Plus. It checks in right at $100 those places. It's an East Penn commercial battery (Deka). Sam's Club Link For whatever reason it's impossible (for me at least) to find a specific battery on Batteries Plus's website without putting in vehicle information, but I'm 99% sure they have it at the same price (or it can be had at the same price with discounts) if you're not a Sam's member or don't have one around. The Super Start line at O'Reilly auto is also all East Penn, and they have the same one for $112 in my market: O'Reilly Link

NAPA also has a commercial wet cell for about the same price (~$160 in the Twin Cities market) as the one linked that has even more cojones - 1125 cca and 1380 ca. Also made by East Penn, but the prevailing opinion seems to be that they've hopped it up a bit for NAPA. NAPA link

Hopefully the links work, and maybe I've contributed something to Don's repertoire of battery recommendations! Lord knows I've benefited from all the suggestions he's made to me and to others with motors similar to mine since I've been perusing these forums!

All of these are maintenance free batteries -Are these ok to use with the Stator charging carb and EFI motors?

[DrewFlu33]

All of these are maintenance free batteries -Are these ok to use with the Stator charging carb and EFI motors?

Don can answer better than me, but based on everything I've read from him and that he recommended one of them knowing its application, I believe the key is *wet cell* instead of AGM, regardless of whether it's maintenance free.

[fly by night]

Interstate 31-XHD or NAPA BCI #31, part #7234, either is a beast!

[EuropeanAM]

Wet cell is usually a battery you can remove the caps from and check the electrolyte level. That is what is recommended for the Stator-Type charging systems.

If you absolutely cannot find a "removable cap" model that has AMPLE CCA ratings, and have to choose the "lesser" of the three evils, Maintenance Free is (arguably) less concerning than AGM or Deep Cycle would be.

[yukonjack2]

thanx Don.

[leonreno]

Wet cell is usually a battery you can remove the caps from and check the electrolyte level. That is what is recommended for the Stator-Type charging systems.

If you absolutely cannot find a "removable cap" model that has AMPLE CCA ratings, and have to choose the "lesser" of the three evils, Maintenance Free is (arguably) less concerning than AGM or Deep Cycle would be.

I follow Don's suggestions for batteries and I have bought many batteries labeled "Maintenance Free" that have removable caps to check and refill the caps. So just because it says maintenance free doesn't make it so. I think now it's more of a marketing gimmick than a true battery type.

[1bluemcm]

If this has been answered, I apologize, just drop in the link and I'll read it. What exactly it is about the stator type systems that is the problem? On my Yamaha, is has a 3 phase, interconnected 3 coil winding with a regulator/rectifier but I'm getting mixed answers whether or not it's a problem with AGM batteries. The rectifier/regulator is set at ~14.6V and it's rated at 35A output. I'm pretty sure you would call this a stator type system, in the owners manual they refer to it as al alternator I'm wondering if it's similar to that on the Merc EFI? Does it have to do with voltage output being too high for the battery? In the SELOC manual, it seems to indicate the charge coil can output as much as 115V. But there is a separate chart for the lighting coil indicating 14V output orI figure, if I can understand what the issue is where the problem is well known for some Mercury motors, I can determine once and for all if it's an issue with my Yammie.

[EuropeanAM]

The concern with Deep-Cycle, AGM and Maintenance Free (sealed) batteries is their discharge and charge cycles. Deep-Cycle and AGM batteries can discharge considerably, yet may still provide adequate AMPERAGE to start the engine. When these stator-type systems run full-output for extended periods (attempting to charge the battery at 35-40 amps), it generates considerable heat, and can overload/damage the charging system.

[1bluemcm]

Thanks Don, I was hoping you'd see this. Out of curiosity, on the Mercury engines, it is also a 3-phase fully rectified system similar to on the Yamaha?

[Lou r Pitcher]

DON'T use Maintenance Free, AGM, or Deep Cycle Batteries with your stator-type charging system, as it can indeed over-tax the charging system (causing damage).....
....
BATTERIES THAT MEET THE REQUIREMENT

-Cabela's (X900-31 (New Addition to list)) **
-Batteries Plus X2Power BCI Group 31M (SLI31AGMDPM) **
-Odyessy 31M-PC2150 **

EuropeanAM, thanks for the recommendations. But isn't the Cabela's battery an AGM (which you said not to use)?

You're absolutely right. Try this one:

Nice Big Monster Wet-Cell

That one shows as maintenance free, likely a commercial calcium lead plate battery.

The Odyssey, the Batteries Plus X2 (as well as the mentioned Cabela's) seem to be all AGMs.

[Lou r Pitcher]

The concern with Deep-Cycle, AGM and Maintenance Free (sealed) batteries is their discharge and charge cycles. Deep-Cycle and AGM batteries can discharge considerably, yet may still provide adequate AMPERAGE to start the engine. When these stator-type systems run full-output for extended periods (attempting to charge the battery at 35-40 amps), it generates considerable heat, and can overload/damage the charging system.

Even with the large high capacity AGMs are not being heavily discharged, we can observe they quickly result in higher temps in the electrical heat sink cooling the voltage regulator.

It seems to be a result of the inherent lower internal resistance of the AGMs being able to draw a higher than otherwise current from the voltage regulator's output driver. Of course anytime we run silicon devices at higher temps, we see an increase in their failure rates.

[1bluemcm]

I was just wondering about that, trying to put this all together in my head. I was thinking, wouldn't the charging system put out max amperage if the battery voltage was seen to be low, or below ~14.6-14.7V, regardless of battery type? And if so, why would the AGMs be so hard on the charging system, then I started wondering if their low internal resistance was a part of it. Starting to makes sense now, thanks fellas.