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  1. Member
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    #21
    Thanks for pointing out the primer solenoid lever. I will be able to do some testing with the coils and wiring this weekend. If I don't have any luck there I will be contacting omcforever about how to pay him for a pack. Maybe I can find someone with a DVA adapter to do some stator testing as well.

  2. Member
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    #22
    Thanks for the reply ChampioNman. I will pull the air box tonight and confirm travel on everything as you describe.

  3. SC Club Moderator ChampioNman's Avatar
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    #23
    Look under the flywheel for coil discoloration and on top of the motor for melted insulation.

  4. Member
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    #24
    I may be leaving out a key piece of information. Last fall I blew a head gasket and started to notice the issue intermittently after getting the boat back from the head gasket swap. I'm thinking firing out of order, as opposed to intermittent cylinder dropping, could easily pop a gasket?

    Does this point more more strongly towards pack and/or trigger? Could a failing stator surge badly enough to cause an out of time discharge?

  5. Member
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by ChampioNman View Post
    Look under the flywheel for coil discoloration and on top of the motor for melted insulation.
    The stator looks ok to me. I have an example of a a melted stator and it doesn't look like that one. There may be 1-2 spots that look like the potting has slightly darkened if I get really nitpicky but no drips or sags.

  6. SC Club Moderator ChampioNman's Avatar
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    #26
    Could very well be the pack. When you are checking the butterflies, check the timer base/throttle linkage for free and easy movement. I have seen the timer base hang up on the way to WOT.

  7. Member
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    #27
    The more I think the more I feel the need to question my original mechanic (the primer solenoid lever is yet another example). If he improperly adjusted the timing and it was too far advanced, could it manifest itself in this manner? I can check it Joe Reeves style but I am a little wary of laying on the back deck with a timing light next to a 30 lb frisbee with teeth at 5000 rpm at nearly 60 mph going down the lake. I have an old shooter prop that I don't use anymore could I chop it down with a cutoff wheel into a makeshift test prop?

  8. Member
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by 316jughead View Post
    Looks like the red lever on the primer is turned a little.
    hard to tell in that pic whether the roller is there?? i zoomed way in but it was still hard to see.
    --------------
    97 Charger 186TF, 96 Johnny 150 Fast Strike, 23 Renegade

  9. Member
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Martin View Post
    hard to tell in that pic whether the roller is there?? i zoomed way in but it was still hard to see.
    The throttle roller is present although likely not original as it looks like it is just some clear plastic tubing slid over it.

  10. Ohio Fishing Reports Moderator omcforever's Avatar
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    #30
    The Joe Reeves way is not the way to go. I know. I have tried it over the years and every time I double checked it with a test wheel, it was always off. Too many variables in each motors ignition system and parts. The crossflow is very sensitive to too much timing. Find a test wheel and do it the right way. If I where closer, I would loan you mine. You don't want to create another problem.(The Joe Reeves way doesn't require you to rev the motor to 5000 rpm or lay 0n the deck and run down the lake/if you see instructions to that effect then it is a dangerous way and not the way he did it) I have seen people make test wheels before. Do it once and do it right and safe..

    Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill !!

  11. Member
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    #31
    Thank you for the advice. I was mentioning the unsafe method as the alternative to the Joe reeves method. I will check the prop shop today to see if there is a test prop I could rent or loan. If not maybe a cheap aluminum prop than can be converted to test prop. I'm not sure why I'm sentimental to the old shooter but I'm not looking forward to hacking off half of every blade.

  12. Member
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    #32
    I had a different shop verify timing for me and also look into the cause. He could not find any cause and stated the only thing he did not have the ability to verify were the flywheel magnets. I checked them and they seem equally strong and none are cracked or loose. I have also run it previously without the regulator/rectifier hooked to the stator with no change.

    Mechanic stated there was no loss of spark during the miss and nothing wrong with fuel delivery and as such he suspected gasket or block cracks allowing water in or pressure out but compression tests revealed 102-106 psi on all cylinders with no issues in the leak down test either. Does anyone have any other ideas?

  13. Ohio Fishing Reports Moderator omcforever's Avatar
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    #33
    So he tested the pack/all electronics ?????? How did he verify no loss of spark under load? Loss of spark is not the same a weak or erratic spark. When a "mechanic" starts suspecting things like cracked blocks or gasket leaks and since he cant explain or find a cause, time to seek a new "mechanic"

    Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill !!

  14. Member
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    #34
    I did the resistance tests and DVA tests at cranking rpm and found no issues. Mechanic has a marine dyno so as far as I am aware he did check spark under load but no mechanics in my area come very highly recommended. He claimed he swapped the pack and stator with used units he had in his stock and the issues persisted so he swapped back although I'm with you if he had access to all proper test equipment it seems he shouldn't have had to go part swapping. He was otherwise fair with costs if I ignore the fact that he said he would have it a week and kept it a month.

    These as are the experiences that make me want to learn but I also enjoy spending time with my one year old so the time for me to work on it is not always available. I swapped the coils and wires because I had them and haven't run it yet but I'm not too hopeful. After that I'm not sure where to go next.

  15. Member
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    #35
    I ran it this morning with new coils and wires and a known good pack and it still had the high speed miss. Since the performance was the same without the yellow wires to the regulator the only thing I know to do next is put a brand new stator on it unless someone has a better suggestion.

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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtreed99 View Post
    I ran it this morning with new coils and wires and a known good pack and it still had the high speed miss. Since the performance was the same without the yellow wires to the regulator the only thing I know to do next is put a brand new stator on it unless someone has a better suggestion.
    I see from your reference to the yellow wires and the regulator that you are getting info from the CDI site. What do they say to do?

  17. Member
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    #37
    That particular piece of information came from a buddy so it sounds that you are already far more familiar with the CDI information than myself. A quick search reveals the following:
    MISS AT ANY RPM:
    1. Disconnect the Yellow wires from the stator to the recti er and retest. If the miss clears, replace the recti er.
    2. In the water or on a Dynameters, check the DVA output on the Orange wires from the power pack while connected to the

    ignition coils. You should have a reading of at least 150V DVA or more, increasing with engine RPM until it reaches 300-400V DVA maximum. A sharp drop in DVA right before the miss becomes apparent on all cylinders will normally be causedby a bad stator. A sharp drop in DVA on less than all cylinders will normally be the power pack or timer base.
    3. Connect an inductive tachometer to each cylinder in turn and try to isolate the problem. A high variance in RPM on onecylinder usually indicates a problem in the power pack or ignition coil. Occasionally a timer base will cause this sameproblem. Check the timer base DVA voltage (see NO SPARK ON ANY CYLINDER above).
    4. Perform a high-speed shutdown and read the spark plugs. Check for water. A crack in the block can cause a miss at highspeed when the water pressure gets high, but a normal shutdown will mask the problem.
    5. Check the triggering and charge coil ywheel magnets for cracked, broken and loose magnets.
    6. Rotate the stator one bolt hole in either direction and retest.





    I have done 1 and 5. I can do 4 but I'm certainly not looking forward to pulling all the plugs hanging off the back of the boat in the middle of the lake. I do not have the setup to do 2 but I hope this was included in my mechanics assessment. I don't currently own an inductive tach. 6 will be very simple.

    By by asking what do they say do are you suggesting the guidelines there are better than those in the service manual and any suggestion I may get here?

  18. Member Ranger 188's Avatar
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    #38
    does those motor have a high speed jet in the carb

  19. Member
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    #39
    Yes sir there is a high speed jet. The carbs were rebuilt last fall and it ran very well right after.

  20. SC Club Moderator ChampioNman's Avatar
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    #40
    Yes they have two per carb one on each side.

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