Auto Switch For Bilge Pump

[scj]

Two different boats, two bad auto-on bilge pump switches. On the orange boat, I caught it in time as I walked by it twice a day. Not so fortunate on my new boat as I plugged in the Stealth charger a week or so ago and today when I went to get it out to change the jack plate washers, nothing! Just a few clicks of a solenoid on the trim pump.
I grabbed my Ohm tester and traced it to that damn switch but it's odd the 10amp fuse in it was not blown??????? The two trolling motor batteries were just fine but the cranking battery was very warm to the touch and at about 10.7 volts.
I'm not sure how the switch could short out the cranking battery and not burn up the Stealth charger as well but the battery must have been the weak link between the two. Anyway, looks like my brand new $325 Odyssey AGM is fried because of the cheap bilge pump switch Allison continues to use!

EDIT: New Rule pumps Allison uses was not the issue!

[AllyFishing]

take the battery back to where you bought it with your receipt and ask them to test it and evaluate it. they may replace it for you depending how old it is. Sears replaced my PM1 not a penny out of pocket and it only had a few months left to the warranty

time to install a new whale auto switch

[hooken203]

So your bilge pump was running all the time? If this is the case is the pump not working now because it got hot and is now shorted? What kind of switch are they using now? Is it still the one with two pins out the top that gets connected by water across them? I am with Craig on the battery I would take it back. Tell them it won't hold a charge and see where it goes from there. Your not having to fix any of this are you? Now that they went to the EPA fuel tank how do you get to the bilge pump and switch? Sorry for the twenty questions just curious.

[AllyFishing]

My guess is the auto switch is the one with a cylindrical center with 2 flat square pieces top and bottom. Mine was junk so I replaced it. good point Kevin, better check your pump make sure it still works

[Bass_Dangler]

Mine works way too well. Any moisture and that thing will go off all day long. Driving me nuts. I'm still trying to figure out a way to fix this issue.

[AllyFishing]

this is what I went to and it works perfectly compact and easy to wire up. I had issues with the factory installed one and ended up removing the fuse to keep it from turning on constantly.

http://www.whalepumps.com/marine/sit...0616_sr_db.pdf


I cut out a piece of starboard (white material basically a cutting board) that I could slip under the livewell drain hose and fasten the auto switch to it. In this photo the switch is in the original position as the old one was from the factory that I removed. BUT, it should actually be on the bow side or up hill side of that pump in the pic. With the stern lower in the water and the auto switch on the lowest side of the actual pump it's never going to shut off when the water flows back out of the drain hose. The Whale switch just happens to work in that position and no more problems.

[scj]

I called Bill today and he asked me to check and see if I have the new bilge with integrated auto-switch or if I have the old setup. They changed systems about it the time my boat was built...
I have to pull the center mounted trolling battery to get at it tonight.
Whether it's the new or old, the pump will get replaced.

I bought the battery back in September last year from BatteryMart. It's a $300 + AGM but not sure why it's their responsibility to replace something another device ruined.

You electrical wizards probably know more about this but it was showing 1.008 ohms going to ground. I'm not sure if this is enoung to damage cells in a battery but I thought it should have blown the 10 amp fuse that's on the positive side of the auto-bilge switch?????

Something else I found odd last time out; when I turned my front graph on, it blew the 5 amp fuse that supplies power to both units....is there a possibility the battery went bad and shorted the auto-bilge as it's the only thing directly wired to the battery when the switch is off?

[AllyFishing]

Hmmm...got me by the knickers!!!??? You lost me when you started talking about measuring Ohms. Thats where I get totally lost. I've learned about basic trouble shooting with voltage etc. but have yet to understand that.

Bilge with integrated auto switch??? If I understand that description, it's a bilge pump with a float or some type sensor which will turn on THAT pump built right in? I get that right? I would prefer a totally separate pump wired to an auto sensor switch like the Whale or even a float switch if ya keep your bilge clean from debris.

As for taking the battery back to the store....well....it is only 6 months old and NO I'm not saying it's their fault but hey if you don't mind shelling out another 300 bucks then have at it!! lol now if it were a small local mom and pop business I would not want to give them the screws but I don't think the big corporate America would mind replacing that battery if they inspected/tested it and it was bad. Sears does it or well did it.

BUT, now that you threw that light on the subject that you also have other electrical items popping then maybe it would be a good idea to take it back for that single reason.

Wait a minute, did I read that right...you blew a (single) 5 amp fuse that supplies power to BOTH units??? YOu mean each unit its not on its own fuse? That's not how to wire up a 2000.00 lowrance

[scj]

I did not wire it. The "electronics" switch on the dash is powered through a 5 amp fuse in the main fuse block. Then each graph is wired from there with an in-line fuse as well.
I need to check the size of the in-line fuses....

[Woody22]

I think I forgot all I know about this.

[AllyFishing]

yeah you had better check those inline fuses. I could be wrong but I think they are 3 amp?? So if there are 2 Lowrance units fused each with 3 amps to a main fuse in the panel with only a 5 amp then I'm not so sure that is enough. But thankfully the fuse blew and not the Lowrance

[hooken203]

Normally you would protect a circuit with a fuse double the expected load or draw. If you turned on the electronics switch the units would not be on so there would not be a draw on that circuit until you turned them on. 1.08 ohms is almost a complete circuit so you should have battery voltage into and out of that switch your bilge pump should be running. That switch by its self won't blow the fuse it's meant to supply power to the pump now if the pump burns up and shorts that should blow the fuse.
HDS12 gen3 draws 2 amps max and I would think the others would be close. So that 5 amp fuse may be a little light I would not be afraid to move up to a 7.5 fuse or maybe a 10. But it sounds to me like you may have more than one problem in the boat. And I wouldn't hesitate two seconds on returning that battery you don't know the battery didn't fail at this point. If the battery is warm or hot to the touch and has only 10.7 standing volts be very careful around that battery wear safety glasses at a minimum when you remove it. I have had two blow up in cars over the years lucky I am not blind because of it.

[scj]

This is the most damned thing I've seen; got the pump out (it's a new to Allison, Rule with integral auto/timer-switch) and the pump works fine except it shows a dead short in it.
I hooked it to a fully charged trolling battery and within 90 seconds, the battery went from 13.7 volts to 12.9 volts. The Ohmmeter showed 10.08 going to ground without the pump running when wired directly to the battery.
I dipped it in a bucket of water to get the pump to come on and that also worked as it should. The timer function works also?????

Per the direction of Battery Mart, I performed a recovery charge on my cranking battery monitoring the amount of volts going in and battery temperature. The battery is supposed to be able to take a 50 amp charge and stay under 120 degrees but I could not get the charger to charge at 40 amps. The charger would run on a 20 amp charge and show 14.8 volts to the battery. You're supposed to let it charge for 8 to 10 hours like this but at 4 + hours, it never made a gain so I pulled the plug.

Since I'm not totally convinced which came first, the chicken or the egg, and the only thing connected directly to the battery while it was on the Stealth charger was that pump, I'm going to buy a new cranking battery but I'm also going to send the old one back and have them convince me it wasn't the battery's fault.

Another thing; the new style Rule pumps Allison's are using look far superior to the old style. The one with the built in auto-switch has three wires; one for ground, one to go directly to the battery and the other to go to an override switch. Allison never wired in the override wire but I think it should be wired directly to the other manual pump so both can be tested prior to taking the boat out, which is something I do before every outing......
There's nothing worse than chasing electrical gremlins IMO

[hooken203]

Other than the battery problem why are you working on this? Isn't there a warranty on these boats? Did they ban you from the factory?

[fishnfireman]

Very interested to hear the final outcome on this one..

"This is the most damned thing I've seen"
"There's nothing worse than chasing electrical gremlins IMO "

[scj]

Other than the battery problem why are you working on this? Isn't there a warranty on these boats? Did they ban you from the factory?

Not that I don't like to visit the plant and everyone that works there but 2.5 hours each way vs. a few hours of my time in my warm, dry comfy garage...........plus Bill is following through with the pump manufacturers representative. It's not like Allison screwed the pooch on this, it's a part failure issue. I know we've been down this road before about who should do what but it's my boat and I get to make decisions on what's best for me. Unfortunately the same issue reared it's ugly head on two different boats of mine and the issue is from two totally separate manufacturers.
Allison recognized an issue, made a change to combat such and it's still an issue if in fact the pump did short out. That's just bad luck IMO.......

[hooken203]

I thought you were still lived next door. Didn't know you moved.

[Props4u2]

I thought you were still lived next door. Didn't know you moved.

He lives over near the true rich and famous people over in Nashville now.

[AllyFishing]

He's even going to start taking drawing and banjo lessons while living there. It's a real artsy fartsy area ya know!!! lol

just bustin' on ya steve

[hooken203]

Well I guess he fits right in��