200 opti sputtering and stalling out.

[juicegoose]

Thought i had this issue fixed but the problem occured today so here i am.
2007 optimax 200
serial # 1B505108

symptoms
idle fine indefinitely.upon trying to get on plain at 1700-2500 rpm engine sputters starves for fuel and dies. Recranking engine provided quick restart but after that initial stall engine will sputter and die if pushed past 1000 rpm and progressively get worse while idling back. Eventually even at 5-600 rpm the engine will sputter out. I have noticed that after the initial sputter out that the high pressure pump will whine and be louder upon initial prime. After engine start i can still hear it more then normal.

Things ive tried
fuel lines replaced back to tank with primer bulb and line from europeanmarine.
when beginning to sputter prime bulb stays firm and no matter of pumping helps.
ran on 5 gal spare can with no change.
Plugs and fuel filter changed 4-6 weeks ago
removed fuel filter and drained vst. There was no junk or water in either.
tested fuel and gas pressure. 80 psi at air rail 90 at fuel rail.
ran engine with guage connected to fuel rail and did notice a slight drop in pressure while engine sputtering out.
i do have the merc monitor installed and am getting no alarms.

amp draw at idle on high pressure pump is 3.5 on startup and 6 amps running
amp draw at idle on low pressure pump is .8amps at keyon and .9 amps while running.

i did take a video while the engine was acting up to shiw the loudness of the high pressure pump. Mif anyone would like to see it pm me your cell number or email and id gladly send it to ya.

anyway to test tracker valve or fuel differential valve. I didnt notice any air coming out of fuel rail or fuel smell from air port.

[canadabullet]

Tracker valve going can do that.

[castforcash]

Have you checked your compressor?

[juicegoose]

What are you suggesting I check Castforcash on the compressor. I had the compressor replaced when I first got the boat. Don redid my injectors for me. The compressor hadn't completely failed but was on it's final leg. I got lucky in that regard.

One thing I did notice today was when i pressed the shrader valve on the air side(port rail) ever teh slightest might came out i mean a fairy fart. I thought maybe condensation but it smelled like fuel.

[canadabullet]

Its leaking , fuel regulator valve or tracker valve are likely suspects.

[canadabullet]

Its leaking. My bet is tracker valve or fuel pressure regulator valve. If you've had tracker valve out double check that the small brown o ring was re installed. If that o ring isn't there you will get what your describing for symptoms and barely a pfft when pressing the schrader valve.

[juicegoose]

thanks canada. wouldn't a bad tracker or fuel regulator show these symptoms on a regular basis though? This is very random

As a side note I have a roughly 2-3 year old diahard big ole BBC recommended starting battery. Alternator puts out 14v while under way and I get no low voltage alarms on mercmonitor while starting

[canadabullet]

You would think a leaking valve would progressively worsen . Fuel pressure checks with the proper gauges will isolate it.

[juicegoose]

Well I checked the pressure with fuel pressure gauge set from autozone and got a constant 90 while running. It would drop slightly as it sputtered out(maybe 10 psi) but it didn't drop before the start of sputtering. compressor psi never changed.
I did notice that the fuel psi would drop back to 0 pretty quick after the stall. if i keyed on the pressure sometimes would go to 10-30 psi. a key off then back on would key it up to 90 psi

[Savage]

You have to test/record the air and fuel pressures at the same time with a dual glycerin filled gauge set.

[juicegoose]

So i was online searching for pricing on the low pressure fuel pump, the one mounted to outside of the vst. I can't find that stickin pump anywhere on online schematics. does anyone happen to have a part number for this pump?

[canadabullet]

Fuel pressure shouldn't drop so fast after stall. Pull tracker valve and inspect. Pay close attention that the little brown O ring is there. For the price of the MPR.. under 30.00 change that out too. Your key on and off pressure changes might indicate the MPR messing up. Also ensure all battery connections both at the battery and motor are clean and tight.

[EuropeanAM]

DON'T start tearing your rails, tracker etc apart!

DO get a DUAL pressure gauge set (liquid or glycerin-filled) on the engine, and check BOTH pressure, recording results for:

-Idle
-Under Acceleration
-5 seconds after shutdown (restart)
-10 seconds after shutdown (restart)
-15 seconds after shutdown (restart)
-WHEN engine stumbles/dies on acceleration.

Also, check the TEMPERATURE of the outlet fitting on the LOW PRESSURE PUMP when the engine begins to die out. If that temperature exceeds 110 degrees F, the PUMP IS FAILING.

Report back with results.

[juicegoose]

So today I made it back to the camp with a brand-new low pressure pump in hand. Swapped out the pump and upon trying to get on plane the engine sputtered it didn't actually die this time but hesitated and sputtered heavily. I didn't have pressure gauges to check pressures but I did have some clear fuel line and my amp meter. I installed the clear hose on the engine side of the primer bulb and ran the engine the engine steadily sucked fuel until the hesitation began and it seemed to slow down some. I installed my amp meter on the wiring to the high-pressure pump and ran the boat. The hesitation progressively got better to the point now that I can get on plane and run the engine and it will randomly begin the hesitation and sputtering I can't get it to steadily reproduce the problem. I did get readings on the high-pressure pump and it was steadily pulling around 5 1/2 to 6 A and was getting around 13 to 13 1/2 V. At one point during a stutter moment I noticed the amps drop to four and two and one and then pick back up to the 5 1/2 to 6 range.
I have thought of installing the clear line between the low pressure pump and it's feed to the high-pressure VST. To see if there is a hick up. I am so frustrated at this point

[Savage]

Really need to have the fuel and air pressure readings, together at the same time, while the problem is occurring........Volt/amp readings can be deceiving, and will vary depending on many factors, which could lead you in the wrong direction.

[juicegoose]

So how do i get these readings if a dealer is only place with the gauges and the problem is random?

[Savage]

You buy, or make the gauges. These Mercury motors are no different than current automobiles, if you want to work on them, you have to obtain the proper tools to do the job. If you don't use the proper tools and techniques to work on the motor, then you will continue to be frustrated, throwing parts at it, trying to find the problem.

In the 1970's you didn't need a scan tool to work on your car, Today you need a scan tool.........Technology.

[EuropeanAM]

+1

Accurate data can be used to assist in an accurate diagnosis... without the appropriate testing/data, the odds are definitely stacked against any "guessing".

[juicegoose]

Well a weekend came and went at the camp. No i wasn't able to get pressure readings as the closest dealer is about 3.5 hour drive away. I'll look into making some gauges though. I did however run the boat. I have now ran the boat for 3 straight weekends and this was the findings.
1st weekend- No issues engine started and ran like a champ. Ran 30 miles or so

2nd weekend - Started and idled fine but upon accleration motor would hesitate as if starving for fuel and die. After initial die off the engine would would take 1-3 key on's to crank. you could here the high pressure pump building pressure with each key on. subsequent idling would have the boat randomly starve for fuel as well.

3rd weekend - Started and idled fine accelerated fine and ran like a bandit. randomly while at 3500-4000 rpm the engine would hesititate but catch back up and not skip again. By random I mean 1 5 mile run it didn't do it at all. Another 5 mile run it did it just once. Another 5 mile run it did a couple times but never killed completely had before.

Things I know at this point
1. Battery(sears diahard PM-1) is testing good and according to sears is putting out 1050 cca at 12 volts.
2. replaced low pressure pump. Original pump was only drawing .7-.8 amps while running. New pump pulls 1.2-1.3
3. Voltage to both pumps while running is around 14v
4. Tested pressures with single rentable gauge from autozone during first outing. Air pressure remained steady. Fuel pressure would kick up the 90 psi sometimes. After a stall event the pressure would drop out to nothing quickly. upon key on sometimes the pressure would go back up to 90. other times it might go up to 30-40 and then another key on would crank it up the the rest of the way.
5. While running the engine a clear fuel line was installed between engine side of primer bulb and engine. No collapse of bulb occurs and fuel was seen traveling during the entire sputter stall out.
6. voltage and amps were measured while underway. Low pressure and high pressure both received 14v. Low pressure pump pulled 1.2-1.3 amps while underway and high pressure pump pulled 6.5amps. I did notice that during one random sputter event that the amps on the high pressure pump went all spuratic on me before the engine caught up and ran fine again. The amps went from 6.5 to like 2 and then 4 and 1 and 6.5 and then 0 and then back up to 6.5. It all happened very quickly.

Yes i agree with Mr. savage that true gauge set will help but to this point this is all I've had available to me.
Is there any way we can rule out the following things?
tracker valve or fuel regulator? I would think if those have issues then the problem would be constant correct?
Low pressure pump - brand new and within specs
manual fuel pump - I replaced it last year but again i would think with a diaphram pump that it would act up all the time
High pressure pump - possible
Fuel blockage - possible. I recently replaced all fuel line from tank to manual fuel pump with the grey fuel line from Don. I also replaced the fuel line from the manual pump to the inlet to the vst. I did not however replace replace the other fuel lines. The boat has never been run on ethenol fuel and past opening of the vst or dumping of the fuel/water filter hasn't shown any gunk.

ECM - Possible i suppose but again i would think if that bad boy were kicking over then it would be more constant as well.

I really do appreciate your help guys

[juicegoose]

Something else worth noting is that i noticed that when i would key on the mercmonitor it normally gives me 3 green check marks even if the monitor is booting up and I crank the battery. This past weekend i noticed that if i cranked up the engine while the monitor was booting up I would get a red gauge display and the battery, water pressure , and third system check would go caution and then kick back to green with check marks like a low voltage situation. I brought the battery sears(pm1 die hard) and they tested the battery out with a readout of 1050 cca and 12. somthing volts. When I got home I tested the voltage during starting by connecting the power wire to the starter and negative test lead to engine ground and got closer to 9-11v during that initial kick of the engine starting.

I have had the ecm get low voltage before during starting when I first bought the boat and it certainly acted up but constantly. not very randomly like this does.