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  1. Moderator Fishysam's Avatar
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    #21
    even though i support the 2 stroke option the g2 promotional video does nothing for me, same pitch? is the drive line ratio the same? is the sho turning a 5 blade 26 pitch? who knows for sure... as far as nascar, indy, what have it there far from stock. would you buy a chevy malibu if in its nascar car it was a diesel? and the production car was only gas?

    race cars get rebuilt after the race weekend... do you know they have made turbo diesels that were two stroke? that is a bad design, its not built anymore that how you know its bad.

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory Legend View Post
    Well... how many two stroke cars and trucks are out there??

    If they where dependable 2 strokes that would last as long as a four stroke they would be coming to age and not dying!!

    They are cheaper to build and would make cars and trucks cheaper or make ford and chevy more money to use them.

    They fact is a 4 stroke can last 200000 plus miles, and I know there is Honda's out there with 15000 hours on them!!

    One the bigger reasons they are not in automotive is 2-stroke doesn't develop as much torque down low, but for outboards and snowmobiles this is not an issue but an asset due to rotating mass, unless you were towing with them. Plus if they somehow were made proficient for automotive(which would be futile as this point) nobody would buy them anyways as most have the impression 2-stroke is old outdated tech and will never compete....4-stroke sells to for a reason and I think it has more to due with marketing and bragging rights than actual real world application for boats and snowmobiles.

    2-stroke also does no last as long because it's making power at every stroke and sits higher in the RPM range because that is where most power is made, but for the average fisherman and snowmobiler this is not an issue. I put 40-50 hours per year on a boat if I;m lucky and most 2-strokes can go 1500-2000 hours no problem which is 30-40 year service life and i've never kept a motor that long....15,000 hour 4-stroke would be 375 years for me! I'll be long gone:) For a work boat that I'd put many hours on or a heavy boat I'd take a 4-stroke for sure because of the better low end and service life , but no other reason to do so that I can see. 2S seems to be a better fit for a bass boat which is light and works best with good throttle response. If you put both motors the same boat and were not told which one you were running I think the winner would be clear. I understand performance is not top priority for a lot but for what I think of as a 30-60k toy it is. I enjoy fishing but I also enjoy a running to that fishing hole.
    2005 206
    BRP 225 H.O. (E225DHLSOF)
    Fury 4 24p @ 5,750 fully loaded

  3. Member
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    #23
    2-stroke diesel....I guess 2-stroke isn't dead for automotive applications, but this might be a hard sell. Diesel and 2-stroke, that's got marketing failure written all over it for the states.

    Renault doesn't sell any vehicles in the U.S.—unless you consider some Nissans that share a global platform—but there's a reason this tiny diesel from France is interesting: it gives us an idea of how internal combustion engines will evolve under pressure to increase relative output and efficiency at the same time. The humble two-stroke might be the engine of the future. What's old is new again, right?
    Advertisement - Continue Reading Below

    Renault is a major small-diesel manufacturer, and it seems likely that with what the company calls the "POWERFUL" (POWERtrain for FUture Light-duty vehicles) concept, it might be first out the gate with a small two-stroke diesel for passenger cars.
    READ MORE: Set the mood with a two-stroke-scented candle
    By design, a two-stroke diesel is power-dense, with a power stroke every revolution, and inherently cleaner than a gasoline two-stroke. A major drawback is a narrow powerband. And "clean" is relative; emissions and economy standards in Europe and North America are extremely exacting for diesels. Several companies are trying to meet these challenges and produce a two-stroke engine suitable for a light automobile, but so far none have come to market.
    Most Popular


    The POWERFUL is half the size of the company's basic 1.5-liter dCi turbodiesel passenger-car engine; it weighs a full 88 lbs less, and in its current form is capable of making 48–68 horsepower out of just 0.73 liters. The POWERFUL uses both a supercharger and a turbocharger, just like other twin-charged engines. For comparison, depending on tune, the 1.5-liter dCi makes 64–110 hp. And it's not merely a 1.5 dCi cut in half, because that engine is a four-stroke diesel.
    2005 206
    BRP 225 H.O. (E225DHLSOF)
    Fury 4 24p @ 5,750 fully loaded

  4. Member
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    #24
    Honda files patents for brand new, fuel injected two-stroke engine

    Loz Blain
    July 20th, 2015

    Two-strokes are far simpler machines than four-stroke engines. They’re also lighter, easier to work on, and downright angrier, pumping out a lot more power per cubic centimeter of displacement, which has won them a lot of fans. But they’ve had a reputation for belching out a fair bit of smoke and unburned fuel, a situation that just couldn’t fly alongside tightening emissions regulations around the world, so they’ve fallen out of favour. But now there’s a glimmer of hope. Earlier this month, Honda submitted a patent application for a brand new two stroke motor that uses direct fuel injection for a cleaner burn and better piston cooling. We may yet see a resurrection of the ring-dingers.
    2005 206
    BRP 225 H.O. (E225DHLSOF)
    Fury 4 24p @ 5,750 fully loaded

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory Legend View Post
    Well... how many two stroke cars and trucks are out there??

    If they where dependable 2 strokes that would last as long as a four stroke they would be coming to age and not dying!!

    They are cheaper to build and would make cars and trucks cheaper or make ford and chevy more money to use them.

    They fact is a 4 stroke can last 200000 plus miles, and I know there is Honda's out there with 15000 hours on them!!
    But who drives there car around at 5000 - 6000 RPM? I don't know if you can compare the two.

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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ford4wd08 View Post
    Wow, do you understand any engine theory or the thermodynamic cycles that go into them? An aircraft (jet) engine is using the brayton cycle, just like a diesel engine is the diesel cycle, and a 4 stroke is the otto cycle. All of these are different and have different purposes. A 2 stroke actually has the potential to be more thermodynamically efficient that it's 4 stroke cousin, but that really boils down to design. I'll take my 2 stroke all day every day. Just doesn't feel like boating or fishing without the smell of burning oil in the morning.
    I agree on the smell, something about it. I'll break out my snowmobile jacket just to get a whiff and a fix:) Although the newer ones don't smoke enough for me....
    2005 206
    BRP 225 H.O. (E225DHLSOF)
    Fury 4 24p @ 5,750 fully loaded

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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Mc Gregor View Post
    Nope, not at all. A canned test. I'll take real world results.
    2003 Stroker with 2014 SHO
    2012 21RDC Bullet with 2016 SHO

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    #28
    I believe that Evinrude infomercial about as much as I believe those flex seal commercials.

  9. Honda / Raymarine Moderator Hickory Legend's Avatar
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandwagon View Post
    But who drives there car around at 5000 - 6000 RPM? I don't know if you can compare the two.
    Just because you don't, doesn't mean they can't handle it!!
    you keep the rpm down for fuel mileage, but the engines can handle it.

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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ford4wd08 View Post
    Wow, do you understand any engine theory or the thermodynamic cycles that go into them? An aircraft (jet) engine is using the brayton cycle, just like a diesel engine is the diesel cycle, and a 4 stroke is the otto cycle. All of these are different and have different purposes. A 2 stroke actually has the potential to be more thermodynamically efficient that it's 4 stroke cousin, but that really boils down to design. I'll take my 2 stroke all day every day. Just doesn't feel like boating or fishing without the smell of burning oil in the morning.
    Piston driven aircraft engines are junk. They're redline is around 2500 rpm's. They're more into torque and reliability than technology.

    Bobby Unser recognized the limitations of his twin engine airplane--I believe it was some kind of AeroCommander. He removed the engines and blueprinted them--looking for more horsepower and rpm's for increased speeds. They've got a lot more power available if the FAA would permit higher rpm's.

  11. Sprint Boats Moderator Bassmeister's Avatar
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by WPC3 View Post
    I believe that Evinrude infomercial about as much as I believe those flex seal commercials.
    Ya'll compare the torque of your desired engine to the 600 ft. lbs of the G2....I think that G2 will swing a pretty big blade......JMHO

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    #32
    I had 3 Opti's on 19 and 20 foot bass boats. Once you got them on plane, they were fine. Never had one that would push my boat onto the trailer to the eye unless I backed in a little further than I should have to.. Last engine was a G2. 20 ft.bass rig, spinning a 26 pitch prop. That thing has a lot more low end torque. On plane faster, great mid range and top end and absolutely no problem loading. You guys can have your Mercs, I'm a G2 believer.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hickory Legend View Post
    Well... how many two stroke cars and trucks are out there??

    If they where dependable 2 strokes that would last as long as a four stroke they would be coming to age and not dying!!

    They are cheaper to build and would make cars and trucks cheaper or make ford and chevy more money to use them.

    They fact is a 4 stroke can last 200000 plus miles, and I know there is Honda's out there with 15000 hours on them!!
    You can't compare the longevity of a 4 stroke in a car to a 2 stroke in a boat. Only a sadist would make a 40 mile drive in a car with the tach banging 5k.

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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by WPC3 View Post
    I believe that Evinrude infomercial about as much as I believe those flex seal commercials.
    You do know that Angler's Port Pete and Ghost Comanche (Roger Rose) from here did a series of videos of the performance of a G2 on a Ranger, right? They aren't infomercials in the least, and be sure to check out the one of the boat going on plane at 70% full trim with a full tournament load.

    I feel sorry for the haters - you will never open your eyes to something new, and more EPA complaint than a 4 stroke. Add in a 10 year warranty, it's pretty damn attractive.

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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. View Post

    I feel sorry for the haters - you will never open your eyes to something new, and more EPA complaint than a 4 stroke. Add in a 10 year warranty, it's pretty damn attractive.
    Something new, huh? I bought a NEW FICHT in 1998. Evinrude hyped it just like Bombardier is treating the G2 like the second coming. Good luck with that 10 year warranty. Bomb CANCELLED my extended warranty when they bought Evinrude. I hope you boys hopping on the G2 bandwagon don't get burned like I did.

  16. Honda / Raymarine Moderator Hickory Legend's Avatar
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by KSPropbender View Post
    You can't compare the longevity of a 4 stroke in a car to a 2 stroke in a boat. Only a sadist would make a 40 mile drive in a car with the tach banging 5k.
    I'm not!!!
    I'm saying if the 2strokes would hold up, they would be in all the cars and trucks. At least up until the EPA did away with them.
    Lighter, more powerful,more reliable. They would have been in every airplane and car around the world.

    But they weren't!!!!

  17. Member
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    #37
    Wanna see how much you are really paying for those long warranties? Let your pristine boat and motor go out of warranty and sell it. THEN you'll realize just how much you are paying for that "free" warranty.

    Meanwhile I am enjoying the heck out of my simple to service in my driveway 115 4 stroke. No more expensive DFI spark plugs, DFI oil all year, the list goes on and on. Both motors require routine maintenance. I've owned several DFI motors and they get real expensive over the long run if you do everything the book calls for. I'd go as far as to say for the average 50 hour a year user the routine maintenance if done at a dealership cancels out savings on gas. However, they do appease the EPA.

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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by n2ratfishin View Post
    Wanna see how much you are really paying for those long warranties? Let your pristine boat and motor go out of warranty and sell it. THEN you'll realize just how much you are paying for that "free" warranty.

    Meanwhile I am enjoying the heck out of my simple to service in my driveway 115 4 stroke. No more expensive DFI spark plugs, DFI oil all year, the list goes on and on. Both motors require routine maintenance. I've owned several DFI motors and they get real expensive over the long run if you do everything the book calls for. I'd go as far as to say for the average 50 hour a year user the routine maintenance if done at a dealership cancels out savings on gas. However, they do appease the EPA.
    I agree with resale on the BRPs and it's more of an issue with public perception than anything and hopefully something BRP can alleviate. People have been burned by early models.
    Also not sure what you mean by the long list of service items? Can you explain? Most people only change the plugs and fuel/water separator for the 1st 300 hours and maybe gear oil..not sure what else you speaking to?? You should only need to add oil every 40-60 hours, that once a year for me and takes about 10min. Even if the ETEC takes more time/money to service I think its worth it for the enjoyment and performance. Resale isn't the best on the G1 but maybe that will improve on the g2's
    Last edited by magnumb; 02-14-2017 at 10:12 AM.
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  19. Member Panama's Avatar
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    #39
    About three years ago I was looking for another boat. I was determined to get a four stroke because I knew that was the future direction of the industry. When I was shopping - and I did a lot of it - generally you could pick up a used two stroke cheap. The four strokes commanded a premium and were almost always already sold....The two strokes, not so much.

    I think any two stroke would be harder to sell......And will only get more difficult. After owning this Yamaha, I would NEVER buy another new two stroke...

    And you can find an advertisement to say anything you want on the internet. Just look around at new boats.....The industry is going four stroke.

    The problem probably won't be owning the boat ---- the problem will be finding somebody to buy it when you sell or trade and financial hit you will take owning a two stroke. My dealer probably would take it - but you would not be happy.
    ----------------------------
    The bitterness of poor quality is remembered
    long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten - Benjamin Franklin

    2013 RANGER RT188 - YAMAHA F115 - ULTREX - LOWRANCE GRAPHS
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  20. Dam Fool rangerbobber's Avatar
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    #40
    Some motors will get you there really fast and some of them will get you there and back...............​ Four stroke for me

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