Electric pump for SHO oil removal

[printman71]

Suggestions for which electric pump to purchase for oil removal during oil change

[leethefishking]

I'm interested in this as well. Removing that midsection and pulling plug was a pain.

[jethro1]

There are all kinds of pumps available. Here is but one

http://www.simyamaha.com/Mityvac_p/mv-07400.htm

Being the cheap barstard that I are, I used a drill motor pump from Home Depot together with some pieces of vinyl hose. And a plastic bucket that Publix gives away for free when they have them. The ole Dewalt drill motor will pump two gallons of oil in almost nothing flat.

Just make sure the outlet hose is affixed so as to keep the end of the hose in the bucket. Don't ask me how I know that it is important to do this.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-...3-HD/204667248

[BOATS]

I bought the SMITH 12v oil changing pump from the Boating section of Wal-Mart. Works great.

[ChooChooSnakeMan]

Since I'm a new to me 250 SHO owner this thread interests me. My question: I assume that when the pump is used the hose goes in the oil check tube? Correct and can all the old oil be pumped out this way. It seems to me that the most complete drain of the old oil would be to let gravity do its job and get the oil out the drain hole. Like I said I'm new to 4 stroke outboards and especially the SHO so your wisdom is appreciated.

[jethro1]

Since I'm a new to me 250 SHO owner this thread interests me. My question: I assume that when the pump is used the hose goes in the oil check tube? Correct and can all the old oil be pumped out this way. It seems to me that the most complete drain of the old oil would be to let gravity do its job and get the oil out the drain hole. Like I said I'm new to 4 stroke outboards and especially the SHO so your wisdom is appreciated.

Things are not what they always seem.

Do it once the drain plug way and then once the vacuum extraction way. You will never go back to the drain plug again. Less mess and fuss. Faster. Just as effective. No chance of ruining the drain plug threads.

[DREWTICK]

Things are not what they always seem.

Do it once the drain plug way and then once the vacuum extraction way. You will never go back to the drain plug again. Less mess and fuss. Faster. Just as effective. No chance of ruining the drain plug threads.

.
I agree with this 100%, I did the first time drain plug, the second time pump and then took out the plug and no oil came out so I knew the pump worked good.
I use this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Nickl]

If you don't get the hose all the way down to the oil
plug there is no way your going to get all the oil out.Have any one pull the plug to see if hose gose down to the plug

[ChooChooSnakeMan]

.
I agree with this 100%, I did the first time drain plug, the second time pump and then took out the plug and no oil came out so I knew the pump worked good.
I use this
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks so very much, as I said I'm new to this 4 stroke / SHO game so your help is appreciated. If you got all the oil out with the pump and pulled the plug and no oil came out that's proof. Among the activities I indulge in is flying small general aviation aircraft. We always send an oil analysis to Blackstone every oil change on our big Continental IO-550 engine. It strikes me as maybe a miss on Yamaha's part is that like an airplane engine, car engine, any 4 stroke engine you must get the oil temp up and keep it up to burn off any fuel blown by the rings and just as importantly remove condensation moisture from the crankcase. We just got a bulletin that says if our aircraft engine doesn't stabliize at around 190 degrees in cruise you run the risk of having corrosion issues due to moisture staying in the crankcase. From what I've been able to read in various places it looks like the engine temps on these SHO motors doesn't get anywhere close to 190 degrees. Maybe not getting to proper operating temp is key to some of the issues. Anyway I'm nervous cause this is my first 4 stroke coming from all Mercs before. Again thanks for your help!

[DREWTICK]

Thanks so very much, as I said I'm new to this 4 stroke / SHO game so your help is appreciated. If you got all the oil out with the pump and pulled the plug and no oil came out that's proof. Among the activities I indulge in is flying small general aviation aircraft. We always send an oil analysis to Blackstone every oil change on our big Continental IO-550 engine. It strikes me as maybe a miss on Yamaha's part is that like an airplane engine, car engine, any 4 stroke engine you must get the oil temp up and keep it up to burn off any fuel blown by the rings and just as importantly remove condensation moisture from the crankcase. We just got a bulletin that says if our aircraft engine doesn't stabliize at around 190 degrees in cruise you run the risk of having corrosion issues due to moisture staying in the crankcase. From what I've been able to read in various places it looks like the engine temps on these SHO motors doesn't get anywhere close to 190 degrees. Maybe not getting to proper operating temp is key to some of the issues. Anyway I'm nervous cause this is my first 4 stroke coming from all Mercs before. Again thanks for your help!

.
the most you will ever see is about 145 but usually cooler than that

[Pagregss]

I have an air powered oil extractor from harbor freight. It works perfectly. It'll suck out every drop in no time.

http://m.harborfreight.com/6-1-4-qua...not%20provided

[jethro1]

Thanks so very much, as I said I'm new to this 4 stroke / SHO game so your help is appreciated. If you got all the oil out with the pump and pulled the plug and no oil came out that's proof. Among the activities I indulge in is flying small general aviation aircraft. We always send an oil analysis to Blackstone every oil change on our big Continental IO-550 engine. It strikes me as maybe a miss on Yamaha's part is that like an airplane engine, car engine, any 4 stroke engine you must get the oil temp up and keep it up to burn off any fuel blown by the rings and just as importantly remove condensation moisture from the crankcase. We just got a bulletin that says if our aircraft engine doesn't stablilize at around 190 degrees in cruise you run the risk of having corrosion issues due to moisture staying in the crankcase. From what I've been able to read in various places it looks like the engine temps on these SHO motors doesn't get anywhere close to 190 degrees. Maybe not getting to proper operating temp is key to some of the issues. Anyway I'm nervous cause this is my first 4 stroke coming from all Mercs before. Again thanks for your help!

This is not a Yamaha specific issue. It applies to all outboard motors of any brand. Two stroke or four stroke. Outboard motors are made to run very cool for reasons that are completely different from airplane motors and automobile motors.

Trying to compare an air cooled airplane motor with an open system liquid cooled outboard motor is worse than trying to compare apples to oranges. One runs very hot at altitude in dryer air. The other runs very cool in moist environments. More times than not in salt water.

Marine rated FC W motor oils have anti corrosion additives included within them to try and combat internal corrosion.

[J Risco]

I use a hand pump vacuum which works very well also

[ChooChooSnakeMan]

This is not a Yamaha specific issue. It applies to all outboard motors of any brand. Two stroke or four stroke. Outboard motors are made to run very cool for reasons that are completely different from airplane motors and automobile motors.

Trying to compare an air cooled airplane motor with an open system liquid cooled outboard motor is worse than trying to compare apples to oranges. One runs very hot at altitude in dryer air. The other runs very cool in moist environments. More times than not in salt water.

Marine rated FC W motor oils have anti corrosion additives included within them to try and combat internal corrosion.

I appreciate the response and information. I do take some exception to saying the comparison is apples to oranges. Facts are facts and 4 stroke engines need to get the oil up to around 190 degrees to burn off moisture and I suspect blown by fuel. True an airplane is an airplane and a boat is a boat and air cooled or closed water cooled is not open water cooled but I would think that in order for a 4 stroke engine to be really reliable in the marine environment someone should have worked out the issues of fuel blow by and moisture in the oil with a different piston ring seal design. I'm not being argumentative and as I've said I'm new to 4 stroke marine engines so a Mister Know it All I'm not. I am an engineer and understand internal combustion engines. To say that any manufacturer is going to rely on additives in the oil to "bandaid" design deficiencies doesn't seem right to me. I also know that some things just aren't suited to every application. I know that Yamaha has had many thousand of the older technology F series 4 stroke motors running without issues, especially in demanding salt water service. I also think without a doubt that there were issues with the early SHO engines concerning casting materials and perhaps tolerances, that we will never know. I hope there are not fundamental design flaws in the SHO engines, for example no cylinder liners that will continue to cause problems. I sincerely hope that the newer blocks / engines have the bugs worked out and will prove to be reliable engines that we as consumers can operate within the rpm range without worry that we only can run WOT without contaminating the oil with fuel. My 2011 250 SHO had a new power head put on in 2016 so I'm just going to run it as I would run any other outboard and see what happens.

[jethro1]

Not meaning to be argumentative either. But the fact remains that automobile/truck motors run in a certain temperature range, air cooled piston airplane motors run in a certain temperature range and open system water cooled outboard motors run in a certain temperature range.

My Mercury EFI two stroke motor ran very cool. About 135 degrees F when underway as I recall. My Yamaha F200 ran about 160 degrees F when underway. These are water temperatures I am talking about. They are designed by the engineers to run very cool.

I suspect that you will be well aware of the differences between aviation rated oils and marine rated oils. Different oils for different applications.

Early SHO and other similar models suffered from a thrust bearing issue. Yamaha chose to use a two piece bearing. They have now gone to a four piece bearing of a different material that seems to have solved that isse.

All Yamaha and other brands of four strokes have suffered from the "making oil" issue which as you know is fuel dilution in the oil system. In maybe 99.9% of motors it is not a problem. For a few it is. It seems worse than it is because of the internet. I attribute the issue mostly to an improper break in procedure which I attribute to Yamaha. Look at Continental's or Lycoming's break in procedures. Mostly it is get the motor warm, take off at 100% power and fly the next 50 hours or so at 75% power or better. To the extent that it can be done. Yamaha does not specify the need for the motor to be producing high power for almost any time.

[DREWTICK]

I have an air powered oil extractor from harbor freight. It works perfectly. It'll suck out every drop in no time.

http://m.harborfreight.com/6-1-4-qua...not%20provided

cool

[brinson]

I have often wondered why manufacturers have not gone to a closed loop system to control temperature? I guess it would be partially due to additional weight of water and heat exchanger. No doubt higher temperatures would enhance an outboard engine's life. Cold temps are bad for any engine.

[SkeetRJ]

There used to be a thread under the Yamah section that showed exactly what Choo Choo is saying. The person who started the post showed the rust in his SHO engine. I'm sure if you did a search you could find the pictures.

[ChooChooSnakeMan]

Not meaning to be argumentative either. But the fact remains that automobile/truck motors run in a certain temperature range, air cooled piston airplane motors run in a certain temperature range and open system water cooled outboard motors run in a certain temperature range.

My Mercury EFI two stroke motor ran very cool. About 135 degrees F when underway as I recall. My Yamaha F200 ran about 160 degrees F when underway. These are water temperatures I am talking about. They are designed by the engineers to run very cool.

I suspect that you will be well aware of the differences between aviation rated oils and marine rated oils. Different oils for different applications.

Early SHO and other similar models suffered from a thrust bearing issue. Yamaha chose to use a two piece bearing. They have now gone to a four piece bearing of a different material that seems to have solved that isse.

All Yamaha and other brands of four strokes have suffered from the "making oil" issue which as you know is fuel dilution in the oil system. In maybe 99.9% of motors it is not a problem. For a few it is. It seems worse than it is because of the internet. I attribute the issue mostly to an improper break in procedure which I attribute to Yamaha. Look at Continental's or Lycoming's break in procedures. Mostly it is get the motor warm, take off at 100% power and fly the next 50 hours or so at 75% power or better. To the extent that it can be done. Yamaha does not specify the need for the motor to be producing high power for almost any time.

Hey I appreciate the open exchange of ideas. No one knows it all. You make a very good point about the break in period. In my opinion 2 stroke outboards are another category since they don't have a sump to get contaminated. I'm glad Yamaha changed the bearing design and I think they are to be commended for stepping up and replacing all those power heads on engines that hadn't had any problems. No argument from me about the fact that an outside water cooled engine is going to run cooler. If the temps that Yamaha engines report are water temps then I wonder what the oil temps are. It is going to take a certain temp to burn off fuel and remove moisture, it makes no difference what kind of engine we are talking about. The laws of physics don't care what type of engine or how it is cooled. The 2 stroke engines don't have the same degree of problems because there is no oil reservoir to accumulate fuel and water. Again I appreciate every comment and I appreciate this forum being available so we can all exchange concerns and ideas.

[jethro1]

There used to be a thread under the Yamah section that showed exactly what Choo Choo is saying. The person who started the post showed the rust in his SHO engine. I'm sure if you did a search you could find the pictures.

Given that outboard motors are used so seldom (they sit for long periods of time unused) and that they are used in hot humid environments, many times in salt water, I am quite surprised that they don't rust more than they do.

Early SHO's suffered from an O ring failure that would allow cooling water to spray all over the motor under the cowling. If it was salt water it would destroy the motor in almost no time at all.