I believe their actions pretty much are in step with that statement, Individually we don't mean much, hopefully as our page gets shared and shared I fully expect we will have a nice following to where we can plan, meet and raise a collective fuss, the whole key to this is get those that ordinarily wouldn't have a clue about what is going on is to get educated to this, When we get those on board we have a shot....all that brown water rolling out into the ocean is hard to hide.
I've been posting on many sites in the past about how out of control this spraying has become with not much response from anyone, even on here. It appears maybe now some of you are seeing your waters deteriorating and are starting to speak out. The only way I see to put pressure on these guys is to somehow blow the lid off with a story in the media and tv outlets, and better yet the BASS. Not sure if Bill Sargent is up to taking on these guys or not but trying to do it with just us fisherman at a few meetings or on these boards is not going to do anything. This state is by far the worst in the country when it comes to managing the natural resources here is Florida. For any of you that are older you might remember back in the late eighties when Ray Scott stopped all BASS tournaments here in Florida after a shockingly low number of fish they caught on the Harris chain, I think the winner had something like 14lbs for the whole 3 day tourney with most coming in with nothing. Ray was so upset with how Florida had mis-managed such a great fishery that he boycotted for a number years. And guess what that's when they finally changed their archaic limits and started to do some major restorations on many lakes. Same goes for the recent disaster on the Indian River, twenty years ago most started seeing all the sea grasses dying with the loss of shellfish and the total disappearance of mullet but they did nothing for two decades until we had a tragic massive fish kill. Now after that they raised our taxes to pay for the clean up, lets not actually manage anything and look into why things are changing, lets just wait til it becomes catastrophic before we act. It's just total incompetence at the highest level and even criminal.
I have also been on this for a long while with zero support, countless emails and conversations all to no avail....so a few months ago a few of us started brainstorming as to why things are as they are esp. in regards to tournaments and also waterfowl, we as a small group decided that there wasn't any accountability...no focal spot to discuss and share pictures and videos of what is going on out there, we now have that, Save Florida Waterways and Lakes , a FB page...we were contacted almost immediately by the Army Corps, we have had a meeting with them, and there has been interest by Robert Montgomery a senior writer at BASS, we haven't done a story as yet..there is also a reporter that has expressed interest in doing a local story....so the wheels are now turning, We need content such as yours to create the conversation, so get on FB and come on over, we need the folks that care.
^^^^^&Sounds about right....as long as the yankees get to run their jet skis and ski boats, all is well on the river
Ok I'm in there. Lets hope it makes a difference. The reality is if they would just stop spraying for a few years the lakes would come back, they just cant rebound with the relentless hammering they constantly get.Originally Posted by 1hammerhead
I was pre-fishing DeBary area last October...and saw two boats appear and really spray a lot...
the excuse shield here is "ecology"...BUT who actually goes with a boat now and again to monitor them?
Funny how nature is glorious...unless it involves aquatic vegetation...
Reacting by overreacting is the gov-meant way...
and, as mentioned, "follow the $$$"...
W/o local and state pushback generated from voters...nothing will change...
1...Demand a copy of the spraying RESULTS the past, say, 5 years or 3 years...
2...and demand a copy of the RESEARCH that "they" use to justify the spraying levels...
3...Just ONE area elected official needs to get on the angler side and make these requests or lead the charge for INFO...
Maybe 80% of the spraying makes good sense...or maybe 80% does not...where is the proof for voters to read & verify???
BTW, I taught college Biology 27 years...
but being an active conservative all my life...I am very leery of gov-meant...we all should be IMHO.
(Yesterday I caught my 3rd Trophy Catch bass (all in large public waters) in 14 months so my interest is still strong)
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Doug do you a masters degree in biology?, I was just wondering in case I have a question or 3 in the near future. Thanks.
Since you're constantly "brushed off" and not told "why" plants are managed the way they are and educating the public is your goal, possibly taking the time to read this manual (http://aquatics.org/bmp.html) could shed some light. The website also has many citations to research about relationships between fish and exotic invasive weeds.
My group is not anti-spraying for the umpteenth million time, We are however opposed to what we view as over spraying, the remnant and aftermath being sediment, sludge and everything brown, and the lovely algae blooms for which you aren't getting enough credit....you go ahead and read the book, I will continue to directly observe and chronicle what we see...., you guys proud of what you do?, tell everyone all about it.
Man I sure wish there was a "manual" for life.. Talking to army Corp is like trying to buy truck parts at Autozone. If the computer dosent tell them what will work they're lost. At the end of the day at times we need management, but budgets, and cost efficiency should have no say in determining that. These guys have no say. Their just out there going through the motions. We have to reach further up on the food chain
So let me ask since you appear so educated on the matter, does your manuals state that when most all the evasive vegetation is eliminated that you then proceed to spray native vegetation like bulrush and Kissimmee grass?
I guess you forgot but you gave me that book the other day, still have it in the truck as a matter of fact. I assume you follow this post because you are directly responsible for this gentlemans' video he posted, we have it on the site, you are welcome to explain how it is that you are helping, here or on the page...I know you want to so do it.
How much funding goes to U of F for that research?...I know its on the FWC website...but since you shared the link, might as well right?
Applicators are not going to spray native vegetation intentionally unless directed by the managing authority (e.g., FWC). The reason damage is observed on bulrush and Kissimmee grass is because this is where water hyacinth and lettuce and Cuban bulrush get trapped, grow and expand. Cattails and pickerel weed are the only two native plants I know that are managed intentionally because they can expand into dense monotypic stands along shorelines. They also expand rapidly, >30 feet per year. FWC treats these to create patchiness for fish and wildlife. Currently research is being done with some new chemistries to treat below the water surface near the bulrush and Kissimmee grass to control the water hyacinth and lettuce with no adverse or visual impacts to the emergent vegetation. This is currently being done on Lake O.
I have not met you. I work in the aquatic plant management industry but use to work at UF. I also don't know what video you are referring to. I'm providing information on how and why plants are managed but you already know everything about it so might as well use the book to start fires. I don't know how much finding goes to UF per year but I know research on aquatic plant management, including algae, is done at several universities across the country. I've looked at the Facebook page and if you're trying to "educate" the public on what's going on you need to educate yourself first.
Well if that is the case I stand corrected sir, but the offer still stands , you are welcome on the page to educate as you see fit, personally I can't imagine how anyone in your industry could even believe that what they are doing in regards to our lakes and waterways are a benefit...all the end user sees is dead and dying vegetation, no fish , no birds and the resulting green water that your management practices provide...I'm glad your post wasn't the lil drive by you normally do, so feel free to come on the site and educate us all in the "proper" ways...
I have to admit i was educated a bit last Tuesday in Palatka, educated on how fwc and the army corp of engineers feels that the common joe are are ignorant. The so called formal meeting that we were requested to attend was nothing more than a feeling out process to see where SAVE FLORIDAS LAKES AND WATERWAYS stood and how educated this group was on the matter. Repeatedly asked about the chemicals and the effects they played on the ecosystem and the u of f biologists answer was that 7 days after initial treatment the chemicals were completely gone. But if that was the case the water should be ok, when asked if a glass of water treated with the correct amount of chemicals and allowed to sit for 7 days if he would drink it his answer was NO. Now if the chemicals are gone in 7 days and the water is pure again i think he should be thirsty from the lies and deception he was portraying. Just my opinion
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The public has stood by and watched our natural resources being shredded and wasted away by a group who continues to lay waste to our lakes ,waterways ,and even Floridas drinking water. I think this has gone on long enough without a watchful eye to keep things in check.
You just cant make this stuff up and I apologize for the length of this but it directly relates to this current topic. I had to splice a SI transducer cable that had been broken for some time and finished up around 3:30, I wanted to see if all was ok so headed down to the lake (Poinsett) to check it out. Lo and behold who do you think is there? Yep, our lake killing buddies in their airboats, with all their onboard tanks bone dry. I guess someone must have witnessed a water hyacinth so the powers to be quickly sent out the army to eliminate it. Shaking my head and biting my tongue I go on my way. When I later returned to the ramp there was a FWC officer driving by, he stopped and turned around so I figured he was going to check me out. First thing he says from his truck is 'did you catch any fish', I said I didn't do any fishing that I was just checking out my repaired sonar. He than gets out of the truck and starts down the ramp, I ask him if he wants to see my paperwork he says no that's ok so we go ahead and start talking for quite a while. I mention that the lake is in poor shape and that there really isn't any fish left out there anymore, he says he has been seeing that from most guys he stops to talk to for quite a while now. I said the biggest problem is all the spraying has eliminated the vegetation in the lake and it has had an big impact on all fish species, than I said they were here again today when I got to ramp, he said yeah I saw them here this morning. I asked him why do they keep spraying here at Poinsett and Winder so often when there is virtually nothing left. He said he doesn't understand it either and went on to tell me what he witnessed down south in the headwater reservoirs. He went on to explain on how he watched them spraying a remote area with an airplane that made basically the same pass over and over for hours, he said it was shocking to see how much they sprayed in the same area. He then went on to talk about when he was a kid that he and his dad would fish here and in the Indian River all the time, and they would catch all kinds of fish. So I'm thinking to myself, this young gentlemen was in his middle to late twenties at the most, so it really wasn't all that long ago that he was remembering when things were that good. So what we all need to ask, what has changed to make such a big difference from than to now?
Rock that sux, very depressing every time I see that as well, maybe we can be enlightened as to why this is a good thing.
I'm sure your sarcasm was received well at the meeting last week too....��. The amount of herbicides going into Floridas waters is minuscule in comparison to all of the other pollution. Florida lakes are unique in that they are shallow and grow a variety of vegetation, especially exotic ones. So what vegetation is important? Time and time again I hear leave us some hydrilla or hyacinth. As posted in the earlier string, 40-60% is beneficial to the fishery. That's not just one species it a cummulative of everything in the lake. So how many acres you say have been nuked is from all the available vegetation? I'm sure the things I'm saying are redundant from the meeting last week, so I must not know what I'm talking about either. FWC does creel and electro fishing surveys every year. Request the data to see if fisheries have been significantly impacted or catch rates declined. I see pictures of big fish all the time. As for drinking the water, would you even drink the non treated water from a lake?
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