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  1. Member dhuggins's Avatar
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    #41
    Instead of each individual battery having its own leads..why not use a 36V charger and charge all the batteries in series? Then you only need 2 banks (1 for trolling batteries and 1 for cranking). I use the dual pro eagle series i3625 36V 25Amps with a RS1 12V 6 amps mounted to it. Then use the quick connects that stay connected to my batteries all the time. I just plug them in when its time to charge.

  2. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #42
    The charger with Delta Volt charges each battery individually and senses the charge going in tailoring it to each battery including 5 stage float. Charging all of them in series just dumps full charge to the entire bank. Allot of overcharging is going to occur and shorten the life of the batteries.

  3. Member dhuggins's Avatar
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    #43
    Disagree..they have on board diagnostics that regulate the output.

  4. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #44
    For the entire series not for each battery. I would want to see the specs on the charger.

  5. Member dhuggins's Avatar
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    #45
    As long as they are of the same type, age and state of charge then it is ok. If there were huge voltage inbalances then there would be issues but then the processor would shut it down because the current would spike. But the charger does no know the difference in how many plates are in the battery configuration.

  6. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #46
    That is the reason for the Delta Volt and an individual charger for each battery. I just came back and in <15 minutes the cranking battery was green/topped off. TM one 3 out of 5 leds, TM two & three 4 of 5. Crank is a year newer than the rest and the TM batteries are always discharged more than the cranking battery.

  7. Member Mocatt's Avatar
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    #47
    Lester makes a charger that plugs into your trolling motor receptacle that is available in 24V or 36V. I know a lot of the pros that use a Lester charger and have great results. Granted it doesn't charge your crank battery but, that's a pretty easy fix with a 10amp automatic charger. If you go to Basscat's website you can order and or view the charger I'm referring to.

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    #48
    Mike I sent you a PM

  9. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #49
    Response there Ted.

  10. Member
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by mikesxpress View Post
    .....My only concern was voltage drop and effect on Delta Volt battery profiling. That's why I talked to the OEM 1st. They already offer extension cabling that is 14 AWG as they determined it has no charging degradation.
    Mike, thanks for sharing your setup.

    Charging Systems suggesting the use of custom 14 AWG wire extensions seems acceptable as that size of wire on a 15 amp bank will not result in enough overheating to be a wiring fire concern. Also 14 AWG wiring extensions seems will not prevent the DeltaVolt charging profile from progressing to completion and fully recharging batteries.

    No voltage drop in the 20' cable or waterproof plug
    There will be a couple of charging related outcomes resultant of adding 20 foot extensions (voltage drops can occur) more notable when charging large, heavily discharged batteries.......

    1) The 20 foot, 14AWG wiring extensions (40 feet total length of added copper) will in the beginning of the up to 15 amp bulk stage cycle will result in wire voltage drops of up to about 25% (~3V) for heavily discharged batteries. (ohm's law or wire losses calculator)

    So the initial charging voltages reaching the battery during early charging could be only about 75% of typical. The heavily depleted battery will still take charge, albeit somewhat slower for a while until the Dual Pro's bulk charge stage is able to fully complete. There after, the 15 amp rating of the charger and any wiring losses become reduced until meaningless as the remainder of stages occur at decreasing amperage.

    Charging times for bigger deep cycled batteries will increase some which could benefit if heavier wire were used.

    2. At the end of the Dual Pros main profile is a timed battery electrolyte stirring (bubbling) stage with higher applied charging voltages referred to as battery equalization charging. This stage results in brief significant charging currents which would be negatively affected by wiring voltage losses in the newly added 14AWG extension wiring. The volume of electrolyte bubbling would be lessened.

    While the amount of electrolyte stirring is certain to be reduced, seems Dual Pro's endorsement for the extensions suggests they do not consider the reduction significant enough to be a concern to battery health. They only have the charger perform it once every 30 days. Reduced equalization would only affect those that long time store their boats as frequent trailering or wave actions on the water easily prevent and eliminate any electrolyte stratification. After the battery is charged and equalization time completed, the chargers current becomes zero entering a monitor and no charging period for 30 days until the cycle restarts. As the current is then zero, the voltages at the battery and the charger's sensing are the same with the extension wiring now having no voltage losses.
    Last edited by Lou r Pitcher; 12-06-2016 at 12:38 AM.

  11. Member
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    #51
    ....the cranking battery was green/topped off.
    There is association of a charger's "Green" indicator and the charging being complete with the battery being "topped off" however the charging continues on.....

    Pro Charging Systems (design) has indicated that their lights illuminate based on charger's corresponding charging voltages as they are being applied. Previously was provided a table of voltages along with the details of the Delta Volt profile's charging stages.

    The Green light illuminates (flashes) as the charging is able to raise the voltage to a level of ~14.52 - 15.49 volts , a level that corresponds to the ending of the Bulk (increasing voltages) and Absorption (constant voltage) charging stages.

    So a flashing green light represents the battery reaching at least 90% of its' actual full capacity and needing additional time for the remaining Finish Stage to complete before entering for a while Maintenance charging indicated by a solid Green and a corresponding drop in voltage to ~13.5V.

    Following Maintenance charging is an Equalization stage that occurs prior to entering a lengthy 30 day 'environmental float' stage. Then the charging cycles through again.

    It's another reason best to leave this charger ( located inside or out of boat) plugged in after 1st seeing a green light, powered 24/7 whenever possible or at least let it remain over-night when used on heavily discharged batteries.
    Last edited by Lou r Pitcher; 12-06-2016 at 11:39 AM.

  12. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Lou r Pitcher View Post
    I have obtained a table of their voltages along with the details of the Delta Volt profile charging stages.
    Lou could you please share the table?

  13. Member
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    #53
    Sure....moved to start a new topic....

    http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread....07#post7907907
    Last edited by Lou r Pitcher; 12-06-2016 at 11:58 AM.

  14. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #54
    As most of us are using AGM's/PM1's what would the % be for those?

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    #55
    I understood that the Dual-Pro has a thermal sensor in the cable, did you cut that out or relocate it?

    Their FAQ says it is OK to extend the cable, but it needs to be done at the ring lug end, not at the charger side.

    http://www.dualpro.com/support/faq-troubleshooting/

    Q: Can I extend the charge cables on my PCS charger?

    A: Yes, you can extend the charge cables, but it is very important that you do so by adding the cable at the ring terminal location and NOT by cutting into the black casing that the red and black wires emerge from. The temperature sensor is located in the epoxied area where the black casing terminates and if you cut the cable between this area and the charger, that bank of the charger will not operate correctly. It is recommended that a minimum of 14 AWG cable be used for lengthening.


    Thanks

  16. Mechanical Engineer mikesxpress's Avatar
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    #56
    Mine has been relocated since last year. I did not use the small thermal sensor wires. Terminated them at the cut. Each terminal is fused and that covers the safety aspect. The 25' run and that small gage thermal sensor wire effectively made it useless IMO. The charger continues to operate flawlessly.

  17. Member
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by rzone
    http://www.dualpro.com/support/faq-troubleshooting/
    Q: Can I extend the charge cables on my PCS charger?

    A: Yes, you can extend the charge cables, but it is very important that you do so by adding the cable at the ring terminal location and NOT by cutting into the black casing that the red and black wires emerge from. The temperature sensor is located in the epoxied area where the black casing terminates and if you cut the cable between this area and the charger, that bank of the charger will not operate correctly.
    Rzone makes a good point of Dual Pros recommendation to not cut the provided wiring and only extend the wires.

    Cutting the wiring (before the Y) as done in this thread eliminates the temperature sensor signal from the wiring. That results in the Dual Pro being unable to correctly temperature compensate the charging voltages being applied to the battery.

    Temp compensation allows the charger to fully charge a battery without over-charging or boiling away the electrolyte needlessly or possibly damaging an AGM causing it to vent its normally sealed gasses. The sensor included at the 'Y' junction in the Dual Pro charging lead does not have to be physically at the battery....just exposed to the same ambient temperatures as the battery.

    For others considering to mount their charger outside of the boat, by cutting/splicing their charger's wires for extension after the black casing 'Y' and before the fuse holders/ ring terminals would still permit reuse of the fuse holders and ring terminals while successfully retaining their charger's important temp sensing/compensation feature.
    Last edited by Lou r Pitcher; 03-17-2017 at 12:36 PM.

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