Does a forum exist where religious issues can be discussed in a respectful, but analytical way without feelings being hurt?
Does a forum exist where religious issues can be discussed in a respectful, but analytical way without feelings being hurt?
There's a reason for the old adage of not discussing religion or politics and it is just as you stated, people are going to get there feelings hurt and the discussions don't go well. Most people are very passionate (myself included) about their beliefs, so it's understandable why things go awry when others don't agree with a point of view. With that said.... if you have questions feel free to ask here. I, and I would think some others, will at least give you a response to think about whether we agree or not. I for one will not call you an idiot for not agreeing with me and you may make me look at my beliefs from another perspective.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
I would like to think honest, respectful questions would be answered in an honest, respectful manner.
There are 7 billion people in the world with 7 billion different opinions on God, salvation and the like. God wants us to have certainty of salvation, not the murkiness of different opinions. Furthermore man's reason, tradition, experience, et al have been tainted by sin and are therefore unreliable in spiritual matters. Therefore He provided Scripture which defines us (Ephesians 2:1), not the other way around. It also defines Him (Exodus 34:6-7).
Why Scripture and not another book? (lumping Scripture with other 'books' is not a legitamate comparison--they weren't divinely inspired) 1. No other book has a similar message. God becomes man an suffers our punishment. Other religions have man becoming god. 2. Predictive prophecy. Cyrus named as releasing the Jews from captivity well before his birth. Nahum predicting the fall of Assyria in detail. The big one--all the prophecies about Christ. Read Isaiah 53. God even mocks other gods asking them to predict if they can. He declares only He can predict perfectly (Isaiah 42:8-9). BTW, the Hebrew word for 'idol' (false god) means 'nothing'.
Why is it we are all concerned about other's feelings but think nothing of trouncing on God and His Word?--because we're sinful.
"All men are like grass...The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the word of our God stands forever." Isaiah 40:7-8
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-20-2016 at 08:46 AM.
I guess that's as good a question to start with as any. Even beyond the 7 billion people on Earth you referenced, we would need to consider the beliefs of all those that have lived before the Bible was written. Certainly, they also believed that their holy texts and beliefs were correct. How about life in other parts of the Universe? In universal time and space, our history is the blink of an eye and what we know beyond our planet is so tiny as to be insignificant. How can we be sure our version is even close to correct?Originally Posted by msethsmile
Assuming by "our version" you mean the biblical version, there is only one way and it is Faith alone. Pretty crazy story if you use logic and reason. God created man, man screwed up, there is a group of people God chose to save men from their own screw up, and He does it thru a poor carpenter's son who was followed around by fisherman, tax collectors, and other known rascals. How could anyone believe this is the truth?
Only by faith. Paul writes in Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God". Luther states "I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith". I don't believe there is any other way. If you are looking for a solid physical and scientific evidence beyond reproof it is not in this world and you will be sorely disappointed, but if you look at the evidence it's overwhelming that the story is true. Mere Christianity by CS Lewis is a great read how he came to believe this truth. It has taken many years to get to where I am now in my own faith, and I am not a percent of the mustard seed yet. It is good see questions like yours, not because what I am saying will necessarily change your mind, but it makes me question, think about, and study my faith, and I have come to find that this will always make my faith stronger.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
I tend to agree with sdbrison. Faith is exactly that...faith. If there were absolute proof that everything the Bible says is true, then there would be no need for faith. God doesn't work that way. He wants His followers to place their trust in Him. There is something powerful about believing in something you cannot prove. Some would say this makes you a fool, but I disagree.
You brought up all the other religions. While I respect everyone's right to believe how they choose, I will say this: If I weren't a Christian, I'd be an atheist. The reason is simple. True Biblical Christianity teaches that man is too wicked to save himself (all you have to do is look around the world to know this is true) while other religions teach that you can "work" or be "good enough" to save yourself. I just don't buy that at all and that's not what the Bible teaches. So if I didn't believe in Christ and His sacrifice for us (which I do), I wouldn't believe in anything, because, quite frankly, none of the other religion's teachings pass the common sense test to me.
You describe yourself as an agnostic, so I think the first question you need to find the answer to is: Is God real? Now, I would be lying to you if I said that I had never had doubts myself. I have. I suspect most Christians if they were honest with you would admit the same thing. However, the one thing that always draws me back when I begin to doubt is the evidence God left of Himself in His creation. You see, if there is no God, then all this world surrounding us just happened by chance. I know that agnostics and atheists will claim that the universe is so vast with billions of solar systems that eventually somewhere everything would come together perfectly all on its own. I just cannot buy that argument. If I told you that I planned to blow up a billion automotive junk yards and out of all that mess at least one mint condition Corvette would emerge, would you believe me? I doubt it. I sure wouldn't believe it. That's the same reason I cannot believe in a world without a Creator. To me, you have to suspend all reasonable thought to believe this incredibly complex creation came together without God's guiding hand.
But I applaud you for asking questions, at least you are searching for the truth. So many today have closed their hearts and minds completely to the thought that God is actually real. I say ask all the questions you want on here. Trust me, I've heard it all before so you aren't going to hurt my feelings.
In universal time and space, our history is the blink of an eye and what we know beyond our planet is so tiny as to be insignificant.
Are You looking at 'time' being linear?
Our history is not a mere blink of an eye. The earth is only 6 to 8 thousand years old. No science has ever proven otherwise. too many opinions added to their calculations. When tested with true science, fossils still have carbon, all "early man" findings have been farces, everythinf from leaving jawbones out of siocket to different species on animals put together to "make" a sub human". I have been studying apologetics for 15 years and everything can be accounted for in that short time frame. I can give other exaples of mini grand canyons formed in 24 hours and other things that explain fossils and everything else.
If you have any questions and do not want to post it, PM me. I will find what I need to answer your questions.
Every person has at 1 time or another wondered about if God is real. I can only tell you that when you accept Christ as your personal savior, you will then know beyond a shadow of doubt that He is real and that the Bible is His Word. It is not something you can understand from ..."the outside". Do not worry about being called an idiot or anything else, because a true follower of Christ will not do that, they will only try to answer your questions. That is our purpose, to tell others about Jesus. and hope that you make the decision to accept Him as the leader of your life.
MN1965--inlaws from New Ulm. Brison is correct--ultimately accepted on faith. So the theory of evolution is not accepted by some on faith?
Scripture. Read the Isaiah 40 text again. "...the word of our God stands forever." Scripture stands outside of time. God created time so mere man and his limited intellect wouldn't go batty. The reference for man is Christ lived and died 2000 years ago in a place called Palestine (B.C./A.D.). True enough, Scripture was 'recorded' starting with Moses. How did Moses know the details of Eden when he wasn't even there? Divinely inspired. "...no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." (2 Peter 1:20) Read Isaiah 53 again. It was written 700 years before the Christ and yet it is as if Isaiah is standing at the foot of the cross. Same for David and Psalm 22, 1000 years before the Christ. Lucky guesses?
True enough, there were those in ancient times with their counterfeit holy books. Same today. The ancient Christians believed the Christ would someday come. Christians today believe He has come. The true children of Abraham--by faith.
The mode that all religions, Gods, holy books are equal so just pick one has a flaw. Sooner or later you run into the real one. Sennacherib's Assyrian army learned that lesson. His commander shouted to Jerusalem, "Do not listen to (King) Hezekiah, for he is misleading you when he says, 'The LORD will deliver us.' Has the god of any nation ever delivered his land from the hand of the king of Assyria?" (2 Kings 18:32b-33) Their record of military conquest was impressive over lands, peoples and gods. They're all the same, right? Oops, forgot something.
"That night the angel of the LORD went out and put to death a hundred and eighty-five thousand men in the Assyrian camp." (2 Kings 19:35) As was predicted, no arrow ever fell on Jerusalem from the mighty Assyrian army.
As to which Scripture version is correct, again a faith issue. God has guided time and events and surely guided recording Scripture. God doesn't have His hand on time? Jacob/Israel predicted the Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Centuries later, only one of the original 12 tribes remained intact, you guessed it--Judah.
How about the rest of the universe? Life on other planets?
If you could examine Adam 30 seconds after creation, how old would he be? 30 years? 25 years? If God could create a star 50,000 light years from earth, couldn't He also create the light that passes between it and earth? (a measure of time). God created it and therefore has authority over it and its physical laws. God made the sun stand still so that the Israelites could complete a battle (Joshua 10). An even bigger example of suspending laws: resurrection of the dead (Lazarus, Christ, and even us-physically and spiritually).
Here's the rub. Evolution has us as descendants of single cell organisms which themselves were a fluke of particles and gases coming together. Random chance. Hence, no accountability.
In creation, we are accountable to God. Hard on the ego. That's why many churches are light on the Law (Ten Commandments). It offends people. --"You mean I can't do this because it infuriates God? My sinful actions caused Christ pain on the cross? Well, that stinks. I'll go to another church." If you're inclined to look for a church, take your Bible with you. Judge everything there on the basis of Scripture. That is THE measuring stick. If you hear unscriptural things from the pulpit (assuming they have a pulpit)--run for the door.
Last edited by msethsmile; 05-23-2016 at 09:16 AM.
None of that necessarily precludes the possibility of life on other planets. If we proceed from the assumption of Creation rather than the Big Bang, couldn't God have created trillions of life forms on billions of planets all of whom assume (or have been told through their own Scripture) that they are unique and the chosen ones?
A fella called Catholic Answers, and asked a similar question. Dr. David Enders , Catholic Appoligist, answered the question with facts. Not opinions or hearsay.
I think the radio show is called Call to Communion and it comes on EWTN RADIO at 1:00 pm eastern time zone. It is for people who doubt the existence of God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Weather or not there are beings on other planets or stars is a good question. However, I do not think so. If there is life on other planets the God Inspired Holy Bible would mention such life.
It is very good for you to ask these questions. Makes me research to find answers. Thank you Sir.
[QUOTE=Finnegan;7363390]A fella called Catholic Answers, and asked a similar question. Dr. David Enders , Catholic Appoligist, answered the question with facts. Not opinions or hearsay.
And what was the factual answer? If You're quoting Dr. Enders when You type "However, I do not "think" so." Wouldn't that be answered differently if it was indeed a "fact"?. Wouldn't 'think' be replaced by 'know'?
So if there are billions of planets with life then there would be billions of Christs? Sounds rather...common.
Why not? A being with the power to create the Universe could manage as many planets and life forms as it wanted.
The One Infinite Creator, Hunab Ku. And each will return from whence they came...
Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with having faith and saying our understanding is limited or we plan don't know.
There could def be other things out there God created they we aren't nor will be privy to.
Matthew 19:26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. (emphasis mine)
Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
I don't believe there is any way we can know everything about our infinite God. His "being" is way beyond our comprehension, and something we can not fathom. How did He describe himself to Moses in Exodus 3:14, God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.'" To me that says God is everything you can imagine plus some, now get on with it. St. John wrote about Jesus that "I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written." (John 21:25). Does that not say we can't write or understand it all? Jesus was born of a virgin, if you can accept and believe that (and I do) can't you pretty much accept any possibility. Heck, I can't even really understand Einstein's theory of relativity and how he equated time and space, so I surely can't fully understand the workings of a God whose foolishness is greater than the wisdom of man (1 Corinthians 1:25). Here is what is important, we can find our God where He promises to be... in His Word, where two or more are gathered in His name, in the sacraments of the bread and wine of communion and the water of baptism. All the other stuff is at best an educated guess, and at worse takes our minds and hearts away from what matters.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
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