Where can an agnostic go to discuss questions/doubts?

[CajunBass]

Just a few random thoughts.

I don't believe there is any way we can know everything about our infinite God. His "being" is way beyond our comprehension, and something we can not fathom.

If we, with our limited understanding of anything, could fully understand the nature of God, He wouldn't BE God.

Here's the rub. Evolution has us as descendants of single cell organisms which themselves were a fluke of particles and gases coming together. Random chance. Hence, no accountability.

When I hear this I have to wonder/ask...Even if we assume that we "evolved"..."Where did those particles and gases come from?"

How about the rest of the universe? Life on other planets?

Frankly I have no idea. But rather there is or not, is not essential to my understanding of God or for my salvation. If there is other life, it's there because God wanted it there. If there isn't, God didn't want it. God is God, and He gets to make the rules.

[msethsmile]

Define or explain the Trinity. Good luck. We just had Trinity Sunday and had the Athanasian Creed (not meant to 'explain' God but rather refute some heresies at the time it was written --A.D. 400). MN1965-Athanasian Creed would be a good reference because it agrees with Scripture.

Brison--you might check on LCMS's definition of "Church" as related to 'where two or three are gathered in my name.' Missouri defines "Church" as the congregation, not "two or three". That's why Synodical Conventions and Seminaries don't offer Communion, there must be a 'host' congregation in order to have Communion at such events/places. If you believe 'Church' is anywhere "two or three are gathered in my name" then you are not in agreement with LCMS. No big deal? Affects fellowship and church discipline issues.

[duane1982]

Does a forum exist where religious issues can be discussed in a respectful, but analytical way without feelings being hurt?

This would be a really great thing.
I'd love to talk about all the things that God commanded us to do that we no longer do , how we no longer keep his appointed times, sabbaths and high sabbaths. How Jesus and Paul kept the sabbaths , holy days and feast.
My walk has taken me to a messianic walk where I believe God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and his commandments are forever.

[MN1965]

I'd love to talk about all the things that God commanded us to do that we no longer do , how we no longer keep his appointed times, sabbaths and high sabbaths. How Jesus and Paul kept the sabbaths , holy days and feast.
My walk has taken me to a messianic walk where I believe God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and his commandments are forever.

I don't want to put words in your mouth (or keyboard). Are you saying the rules of the Old Testament should still be followed?

[duane1982]

In a nutshell yes. Yeshua (Jesus) was our sacrifice so we no longer have the altar.
People say the law is bondage but that is a lie. I can show you many of us who are very very happy following shabbat, the feasts of the lord and doing his work and could be judged by our fruit.
There has to be a balance of spirit and law. Paul says without love the law is useless.
Paul was also a pharisee who was taught under Gameliel. Paul also says he was a pharisee of pharisees. Paul had the entire Torah memorized which is absolutely amazing.
If you would like some teachings by a close friend of mine I would be happy to direct message you.

[MN1965]

Please forgive my ignorance. Isn't a central premise of the New Testament that it eliminated or modified many of the OT rules?

[duane1982]

Please forgive my ignorance. Isn't a central premise of the New Testament that it eliminated or modified many of the OT rules?

Many would have you thinking that but if you read the bible itself in context that's not the case. Paul is usually taken out of context to achieve ot laws being no more.

[csurp]

I think one of Paul's greatest contributions to the spread of Christianity was determining pagans need not become Jewish first and be circumcised before becoming Christians. Gain without pain, so to speak.

[msethsmile]

Duane--Paul considered his previous teachings (before conversion) to be 'rubbish". Philippians 3. Circumcision, Tribe of Benjamin, Hebrew of Hebrews, Pharisee, trained under Gameliel, legalistic righteousness--all "rubbish".

MN1965--The Old Testament is always interpreted thru the prism of the New Testament. Three types of OT law about Israel: Ceremonial (Temple), Civil, and Moral (10 Commandments).
The first two no longer apply. Temple been replaced (new covenant thru Christ) and ancient Israel no longer a nation--does not exist. The Moral Law stands forever.

The purpose of many of the OT Ceremonial laws were to point to the coming Messiah. Since He came, no longer needed.They fulfilled their purpose. Passover (freedom of bondage from Egyptians, angel of death passing over, sacrificed unblemished lamb, blood on doorposts ---all point towards---freedom from bondage of sin, no more (eternal) death AKA hell, Christ the perfect sacrificial lamb, where there is blood there is forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

[cliffordallen]

Also, Jesus Himself told the disciples to eat whatever food was put in front of them, whether it was "unclean" or not. Jesus did away with the old law concerning food. The ripping of the temple veil at His crucifixion did away with the need to "confess sins to another man,ie the head of the family and then the tribe of Levite priests.
Jesus fulfilled the law and all prophecy so that we no longer needed to live under the old testament restrictions on ceremonies but we were to still keep the commandments holy. We now have a "personal" relationship with Jesus, we do not need other sacrifices, Jesus has provided the only sacrifice that will ever be needed.

[duane1982]

I disagree with the above statements. I can discuss when I have more time.

[msethsmile]

BTW, Temple Veil ripped from top to bottom. God does the work. Divine monnergy. (spelling?)

More sacrifices needed? "It is finished."--Christ from the cross, referring to full atonement for man by Christ's perfect life (active obedience) and sacrificial death (passive obedience). Validated (accepted) by the Father by Christ's resurrection.

MN1965--given the above, if you're inclined to look for a church--avoid ones that demand further 'sacrifice' to gain salvation.

Duane--Sola Scriptura--Scripture Alone. Sure, there's disagreements (consequence of our sinful nature). There's only one measuring stick or referee--Scripture. No preacher's opinions, no committee recommendations, etc.

[rds_nc]

So God did all that stuff for the goat herders in the desert 2000 years ago and washed his hands of it? All the bad stuff that goes on he doesn't care about or is it God's plan? I always hear it preached we're made in His image but everyone looks down on certain groups. How about birth defects? He just likes seeing people live incomplete lives?

[rds_nc]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

– Epicurus [341–270 B.C.

[cliffordallen]

God has a plan and he gave us a choice. Sin is what causes death. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and let satan convince them to do what they wanted, not what God had told them to do.
All God hating people cannot accept the fact that we are sinful people. God has given us rules to live by and we as people chose to not live as God wants.
EVERYONE suffers because of sin in the world. What God thinks and what men thinks are 2 very different things. God is not going to do what you want just to prove to you He is real. Timothy 4 1-6 tells exactly what is going on today..people have turned their ears away from the truth and will listen to fables. Sound doctrine is in the Word of God and condoning or teaching anything not allowed or condoned in the Word is FALSE TEACHINGS. You will pay the ultimate price in the end for not knowing Jesus Christ.
All teachers and preachers that teach anything contrary to the Word of God will also pay the ultimate price. These so called gay preachers are teaching that an abomination in Gods eyes is ok. They are solidly in the devils grasp and taking people with them. All teachers and Preachers are held to a higher degree of following the Word and telling the Word.
Jesus was tempted by Satan, yet He resisted the devil. As people, we are willing to succumb to out desires, letting the devil win.
I am not going to argue with you, as I have read other remarks you have made. You will not look at anything with an open mind and so I will just pray that someday you might. I want to see no one send himself to be apart from god for an eternity

[MN1965]

What God thinks and what men thinks are 2 very different things.

Unless one claims to know the mind of God, how can we be certain of that? He may think EXACTLY as we do or not, there is no way to know.

[rds_nc]

God has a plan and he gave us a choice. Sin is what causes death. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and let satan convince them to do what they wanted, not what God had told them to do.
All God hating people cannot accept the fact that we are sinful people. God has given us rules to live by and we as people chose to not live as God wants.
EVERYONE suffers because of sin in the world. What God thinks and what men thinks are 2 very different things. God is not going to do what you want just to prove to you He is real. Timothy 4 1-6 tells exactly what is going on today..people have turned their ears away from the truth and will listen to fables. Sound doctrine is in the Word of God and condoning or teaching anything not allowed or condoned in the Word is FALSE TEACHINGS. You will pay the ultimate price in the end for not knowing Jesus Christ.
All teachers and preachers that teach anything contrary to the Word of God will also pay the ultimate price. These so called gay preachers are teaching that an abomination in Gods eyes is ok. They are solidly in the devils grasp and taking people with them. All teachers and Preachers are held to a higher degree of following the Word and telling the Word.
Jesus was tempted by Satan, yet He resisted the devil. As people, we are willing to succumb to out desires, letting the devil win.
I am not going to argue with you, as I have read other remarks you have made. You will not look at anything with an open mind and so I will just pray that someday you might. I want to see no one send himself to be apart from god for an eternity

That's a convenient position to hold when you're the one leading the church, isn't it? Pope is God's chosen on Earth and then the Catholic Church goes on to become the largest owner of wealth and land. That doesn't seem fishy? Then someone wises up and doesn't like the rules so he just starts an entire new Church waayyy after Jesus is gone? I'm sure nothing got lost in translation.

[rds_nc]

Unless one claims to know the mind of God, how can we be certain of that? He may think EXACTLY as we do or not, there is no way to know.

He MUST think exactly like us, we're made in his image after all.

[sdbrison]

Richard, it is good to see our little segment of the board touches so many. You are correct, crazy unbelievable story with lots of unanswered questions that no one will be able to answer. As the Word says, the power of the cross is foolishness, I understand why so many people think so. Thanks for reading.
Scott

[Jeff La]

I have pondered the question many times as to why God has let certain things happen, why certain people are born certain ways or why is there such destruction and hate in this world. If you believe in the concept of good and evil, right and wrong and love and hate this all proves there is God and the devil. The concept of the Bible is good (God) verses evil (devil) and how as humans we are to deal with it.

Through faith we are saved, that faith is proven through love. The love we show to those who are born with afflictions, physical defects and those who are less fortunate. The love we show our fellow man as given in the golden rule. We are given opportunities every day to show God's love to others and allows our faith to shine through.

Being a christian I don't condone the actions of others that is against biblical principle, but I don't condemn them either, that's not my job. My job is to lead by example and tell of God's word to those who listen. There are many things we can ask why, many things we can't explain yet if we live a life devoted to Jesus and His love we can only be a positive force showing the power of love.

Having been born and raised a catholic and will die with that title, that does not prevent anyone from doing wrong. Being the pope does not exclude you from sin. We are all human and sin is our nature. The Twelve Apostles were personally chosen by Jesus yet they all sinned and one betrayed Him to death. The pope is responsible for his teachings as well as any other who leads. It is for us as individuals to make sure the teachings we hear are true to God's word. This is how we grow as Christians.