I didn't know lowrance did SI.Originally Posted by grout-scout
Just clownin with ya
I didn't know lowrance did SI.
Just clownin with ya
I don't know if you ever read the Garmin forum or not but you should take a peep at some of their SI pics. Man, they shoot out 300' each direction and it's so clear. Anyways, I know off topic.
Hi guys,
I'm historian who is been researching Old Birmingham, and my family has a home in Old Eddyville on Lake Barkley. I've been hoping to find some side view imaging of OldBirmingham under Kentucky lake. This is awesome. Do you have any other images?
I do have photographs of the old town that I'd be happy to share here if anyone is interested.
Thanks, everyone.
Ready to have your mind blown? If I'm reading the little navigational map correctly next to your side view image of that building foundation above in Old Birmingham ... and if I'm placing it on the old topographical layout of the town accurately, I know which building that is. Not only that, I have a photograph of it.
Before I alter the conversation with my opinion, though, review your own data. Where do you think that building stands on the old Birmingham topographical map?
Thanks for the information. I think the building is the old Birmingham School. I don't have any more shots
Hey, papical. If you are interested. I would be glad to take you out on the site this summer with my boat and help you document some of that stuff. There are dozens of foundations out there.
Yes, that's my conclusion too. It's incredible that of all the structures you just happened to scan around Old Birmingham (and then post on here) it's sonar footage of the old school.
The map layout suggests it is the school building, but there's a lot of circumstantial evidence that points to it being the school as well. First of all, someone above commented that you could almost see the pebbles around the foundation. Those are not pebbles -- it's masonry. I know the look of it on side imaging sonar, because I researched and located one of the oldest buildings in Lyon County, now under lake Barkley, last year. Just this past January, I led a search team to recover 200-year-old, slave-made brick, a hearth stone, and more, from the site under the lake (using subzero wetsuits). My own side imaging showed the same, crumbled brick pattern shown in your sonar image above, at the site on Barkley. This all leads to the fact that we know the Old Birmingham school building was made of brick. How do we know this -- because I have a photograph of the building itself. Not only is it made of brick, but there is already a pile of masonry to the left of the (then-closed) school building in the old photograph, almost exactly where one appears next to the foundation in your sonar footage.
That's the first point. Second, studying the photograph of the school carefully, it's apparent that the shape of the building is similar to what appears in your sonar image. ( The school was long in front, with a central entrance, and had a second, but larger building section at the rear, that was just slightly narrower than the front strip. This is also what appears in your sonar shot.)
Third, the symmetrical room divisions along the foundation in your sonar image are unusual for a house. The layout matches a public building, really more like a school than a church, with a central hallway.
Fourth, the sheer size of the foundation, as others have mentioned here, suggest it is too big to be a normal house. Not only that, but the c. 1931 photograph of the school I have also shows an old basketball rim standing next to the building. Assuming that that rim was approximately 10 feet tall, you can look at the building pictured, and determine its massive size. It appears to match the size of the foundation in your sonar footage. *A neat sidenote: NBA legend Jumpin' Joe Fulks, who was born and spent part of his childhood in Old Birmingham, may have shot around on the old basketball net pictured in this photograph on the side of the school building.
(This sort of photographic analysis is what comes with historical research, for better or for worse.)
As I said above, I'm stunned that of all the places you could have recorded and shared here around Old Birmingham, it happens to be that school building. Well done. If you ever go back there, please let me know if you record more footage of that school foundation, and any other areas of town.
I'd love that. Thanks for the kind offer. In fact, I know at least one Old Birmingham survivor (there aren't many left) who might be blown away at the opportunity to do this.
Back to the subject of the forum, I own a Garmin 70DV with Sidevu and Downvu imaging. I don't own a boat yet, though. I use the sonar on friends' boats to explore historical sites under Lake Barkley for research, in part for a book I'm cowriting. I've been planning to get over to Kentucky Lake for fun to explore Old Birmingham for years now, just haven't gotten to it yet. I don't live in Kentucky...my fiancé's family owns the Prince Estate in Old Eddyville, one of the few places that wasn't destroyed by the Corps of Engineers to make Lake Barkley. So we visit Eddyville several times a year, and I have a lot of good friends now in Eddyville and Kuttawa who, thankfully, let me borrow boats when needed.
I'm trying to upload this photo of the Old Birmingham High School from my iPad, and the forum isn't letting me do it. I'll post it from my laptop later today.
When I took the screenshot, I was actually looking for the school building as it was shown on this old topo. The school symbol is on the south side of town, I sorta guessed at the location using my Navionics East map chip which did not have the school symbol displayed, Here is part of the pre-impoundment topo I was working from.
If there is anything else you are looking for let me know. As I said above, I would be glad to take you out on the lake to help with your research.
I have looked at a lot of foundations around the lake from a fishing perspective. Many of the home sites displayed still have nice foundation walls standing, however, many houses were just built on stone piers and these are all that remain. It is still possible to find them though.
papical, If you are interested in underwater KY Lake, google a report titled "A River in Name Only, Assessing Submerged Historic Resources in Kentucky Lake". Surveys in this study were conducted in the Paris Tn/Big Sandy area,
Here's the Old Birmingham school building, right before it was demolished in the late 1930s. As you can tell, it's a definite match for your sonar screen capture. (Again, if you look closely, you'll even see a pile of brick to the left of the school, exactly where a similar pile appears outside of the foundation in your sonar shot.)
http://oi68.tinypic.com/2jfxfme.jpg
csurp, A couple of years ago I launched a Facebook group that's dedicated to the history and stories of Lyon County. It has thousands of members now, including author and KY Supreme Court justice Bill Cunningham and his wife, historians, scholars, Old Eddyville survivors, Kuttawa survivors, Confederate and Lamasco survivors, Between the Rivers survivors, and others. People post hundreds of rare images of the old towns there. I'm friends with my Marshall County historian counterpart who does the same sort of research I do, and is roughly my age. He's also in the Facebook group, and we share history from outside of Lyon County too. I know he would be fascinated by your sonar image of all Birmingham, and so what everyone else in the group. If you're on Facebook, you're welcome to join. Do you mind if I share your picture there?
Thanks for the info on the facebook page...no problem posting the image. I think it would be possible to actually assemble a side scan sonar map of the entire town. I would need some help/expertise to do that. Do you know of an old map that actually has the street names of the town(Birmingham)? What is the name of the Facebook group?
The group is located here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Lyon...ref=ts&fref=ts
A sidescan map of the whole town site would be amazing. I hadn't even thought of that. I believe a map of Birmingham, the way you describe it, does exist. In fact, this morning I'd just written my historian counterpart in Marshall County, because he knows a man who is featured in a local NBC story about Birmingham a few years back. I'm pretty sure that elderly gentleman created such a map. We could reach out to him on Facebook.
Do you ever put your boat in Lake Barkley? It would be fascinating to make a side image map like that of Old Eddyville. The actual area of Eddyville that is under the lake is smaller than the Birmingham site. And, of course, there are thousands more survivors from Old Eddyville who are alive and well (compared to Birmingham), who would be very moved to see what it looks like now on the streets where they grew up and were forced to leave.
papical, I joined the Lyon co group, I notice there is a guy doing some diving on an old Eddyville site. He picked up a few artifacts.
Hi csurp, yes that guy was me :). Several years of research in the making. It was fascinating; media, scholars and family descendants of the 1820s mansion were on hand that day, in 20ish degree weather.
Btw, I located detailed TVA and survivor maps of Old Birmingham. Available in a local book, whose author I just met. I'll share that info in the group in the next couple of days.
Last edited by papical; 04-04-2017 at 10:31 PM.
Man irk have a clue how y'all get them that clear.
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