thanks for the comparison. if you look at the position of my trigger compared to yours you will see that I cannot go any farther to the left. that is my problem. I need to retard the timing some more but I physically cannot do it.
thanks for the comparison. if you look at the position of my trigger compared to yours you will see that I cannot go any farther to the left. that is my problem. I need to retard the timing some more but I physically cannot do it.
Strange problem, compared to mine your timing should already be retarded too much.
Please also include a picture of the THROTTLE CAM AND ROLLER (throttle arm all the way against the idle stop). I suspect your problem is directly related to that particular step (lower idle screw too far advanced, preventing you from properly adjusting idle timing).Originally Posted by Chadrap
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
Difficult to see through the 90 degree fitting at bottom of VST... but it does not appear that the throttle cam and roller are properly aligned (which would result in needing to excessively adjust idle timing).
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
The line on the cam lines right up half way with the roller, so no problem there. Something is causing the timing to be advanced in a linear fashion throughout the RPM range. from idle, to max, its at least 5 degrees too advanced at any setting. I'm leaning to a wire or bad component somewhere, but I have been unsuccessful this far in finding it.
Chadrap,
Because this problem seems to be so evasive I looked at my Mercury ADI system notes and have found the following conditions that may affect timing. If the problem isn’t the mechanical aspects of the sync and link adjustments these items may be causing the advanced timing condition:
Reduction of bias voltage results in an increase in timing advance
Check bias voltage on the DC meter range not DVA range which will hold peak value and not show intermittent bias voltage problem
Symptoms of a bias voltage problem include too fast an idle speed and erratic timing.
The idle stabilization module can advance timing 9 degrees, may be worth disconnecting to see if timing changes.
Hope you and Don get this resolved. I can't wait to find out what the problem is.
Last edited by Ba$$n; 04-09-2014 at 01:33 PM.
Thank you very much for passing that info along. I feel like I have exhausted the mechanical aspects of timing adjustment. I have tested with the idle stabilizer both connected, and disconnected. I still cannot get timing back down within range. It does not seem to be erratic. I am consistently getting readings 5 or more degrees too advanced, despite the trigger being bottomed out as far as it will go. It looks like I am going to have to start troubleshooting ignition components with the volt meter. I don't understand how any of them just went bad in the two months they were not used. I never removed switchboxes, unhooked trigger or stator leads when I pulled the powerhead. That's why I'm confident that I didn't miss a wire or misplace one. I'll keep you posted with what I find. I hate troubleshooting ignition. I've been through this before with an old omc and I know how hard it can be to diagnose specific components with similar symptoms.
I popped off the flywheel and removed the trigger. Everything looks normal to me. Could it possibly be either set of magnets on the flywheel? Is there any way to test them?
My eyes are not that good on little bitty pics and some aren't close enough to tell. Its up to you to determine discoloration of bullet leads, or any signs of damage to magnets, windings etc. At this point (been years though) I take a wire brush and clean up the magnets to get any rust etc off of them then wipe it clean with electric cleaner. But I thought I could see a couple of discolored bullet connectors which indicates a lot of heat issues on the wires. Don or other youngins will have to give their input with young eyes - I can't see squat in dim light.
Click on the picture and they blow up pretty good.
Did, too small still, needs to be 3 times bigger with MORE light. I could save it then blow it up on my computer but figured I'll let the youngins view it and determine what they seeto me some of those connectors are discolored but don't know for sure.
Chadrap:
Bassn is correct above in his comments about Bias Voltage and/or advance module/idle stabilizer being possible culprits.
Coming from previous conversations, it was my understanding that you REMOVED the idle stabilizer (or advance module), and installed a white w/black stripe jumper between the switchboxes (and ONLY that jumper wire on those terminals).
The module is either ON THE ENGINE, or OFF THE ENGINE. My suggestion is OFF, Gone, nearest refuse receptacle.
Please provide a clear picture of your trigger adjustment arm, with a clearly marked measuring stick next to it for reference (similar to what is shown in the OEM Mercury Repair Manual). Your problem is almost certainly there. If you're more than 1 TURN off, you will not have adequate adjustment to achieve proper timing.
Pay special note to the appropriate measuring surfaces... my manual shows this on Page 2A-24 (have to study the picture carefully).
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
Thanks again for the continued support. I made my timing adjustments with the idle stabilizer mounted on the motor, black and white bullet unplugged, and jumper wire installed on black white terminals between the switch boxes. Tonight I will scrap the module and make more pics and observations. I've read that the mercury triggers are not usually prone to going bad. It looks like it was put on properly just as it came off, same goes for the flywheel.
After the previous post I did inspect my bullet connections near the ignition coils and several of those are discolored which might be a symptom for my problem.
I will post more pics of the trigger adjustment and bullet connectors as well as anything else I encounter tonight.
Thanks again!
I reinstalled that trigger, stator, and flywheel tonight as well as removed that idle module from the motor completely. Now the factory marks line up with tdc and the timing light shows #1 firing right where it should, easily within adjustment. Only thing I can think of is that the flywheel was misaligned, despite being keyed. I don't know how that is remotely possible but I don't have any other explanation. Thanks again for the help, I will update after getting on the water again Saturday.
Flywheel is not keyed- it is SPLINED. There is simply no way to install the hub portion of the flywheel incorrectly, without substantial force (and damage to the splines).
The outer ring of the flywheel "might" be misoriented... but you would readily recognize that when setting up the dial indicator.
I suspect you were off slightly on your 11/16" Trigger Arm measurement... and once corrected, it brought you right back to where you should be.
Dual Mercury Master Technician- for Mercury Outboards, Mercruiser and Mercury Racing at European Marine in Greenville, SC.
Still consider myself a "Marine Apprentice" after 47 years (learn something new every day).
Mercury Parts, Mercury Outboards, Smartcraft & Accessories, Injector Service, TDR Reeds- BBC Sponsor
Flywheel is not keyed- it is SPLINED. There is simply no way to install the hub portion of the flywheel incorrectly, without substantial force (and damage to the splines).
The outer ring of the flywheel "might" be misoriented... but you would readily recognize that when setting up the dial indicator.
I suspect you were off slightly on your 11/16" Trigger Arm measurement... and once corrected, it brought you right back to where you should be.
Well initially I realized that the existing flywheel marks were way off from where they should be when I was finding TDC and .462 using the dial. I just made new marks with a paint marker and timed it from there. After reinstalling the flywheel, trigger, and stator last night, and rechecking tdc and .462, the original flywheel marks were right where they should've been from the start. The only explanation I can think of is that the flywheel was not lined up.
LetsEverything Works LikE New, Hoping For Another 14 Years!
Really doesn't make sense that it was the flywheel. You wouldn't have been able to get it seated if it was not aligned correctly and removing it would have been really difficult if it was seated incorrectly.
I would monitor the timing the next few trips to be sure nothing changes.
Hope she runs great.
Fished both days this weekend, motor runs great. I agree with you Ba$$n. Not sure what the problem was. Just know its resolved. I did remove the stator and trigger, so its possible they were the culprit. However, they all went back on just like they came off.
Anyway, today I got hit with one more problem. I'm guessing it has something to do with it being the first time at prolonged WOT since rebuild. I pulled cowl when I got home and found fuel/oil coating on almost everything inside. So clearly I have a leak somewhere. Not sure where. Hard to tell where since vacuum effect sucked the liquid all throughout inside. Anyone got a good starting point? I fired it up on muffs, no spray, drip, or visual leaking. hoses are all zip tied tight. Never experienced this, so I'm seeking advice. Not too worried just need a starting point.
thanks!
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