Winter effects on the Upper bay

[TideChaser]

Guys the topic of release boats have been discussed when tnxs are held out of NE. One problem is the cost and who will manage it. I would like to warn everyone about something. Be careful what you ask for!!!!!!!!!!!! Since when has our government made good decisions????? The MD Bass Nation ( old MBF ) has worked with DNR and Joe Love for many years in regards to these concerns. The fact is that DNR has no money and Owe/Malley continues to take from them every year to pay for more entitlements. So please understand, your concerns our well known and solutions are being considered. Just remember that if things start happening then we are all going to pay for it dearly either financially or restrictively and probably both. You already have to report via DNR website when your having a large tnx. It's only a matter of time before Owe'Malley starts sticking it to us all one way or another. You should talk to Dave about your concerns and ask him to spread his tnxs around further because if he don't the government will step in and I can guarantee none of us will like what they come up with. Dave has a good following and I think he will still have it if he spreads his launch sites around.
As far as the Elk River goes and putting in some jetties to make that launch site better and get used more there was an impact study performed at the cost of 75k if I remember correctly. It happened just before the recession and then there was no money. Estimated costs for the jetty would be well over one million. We pretty much heard nothing about the results. This past Fall my club launched at Elk Neck and spoke with a DNR officer about it. He said the study showed that it would create sand to gather and make the area shallow so they decided not to do it. I only took this with a grain of salt because I'm pretty sure I'm in the know more than he is about these things.
About hot weather tnxs out of NE. We have not heard of any large fish kills from tnxs in the NE from hot weather or handling. I'm pretty sure that place has more fish in it than any other and is extremely healthy. We all can help by using ramps in other locations like Tydings and running over there and bring them back to Tydings for weigh in.
Just remember, you and our government may have good intentions but the unintended consequences always make things worse. Practice good catch and release habits, encourage others to do the same and keep the government out of it. Imagine launch fee's of 20 bucks. Tnx taxs on all tnxs. Day, week and or month restrictions, the list goes on. Lets self police and get things done ourselves. Although it may seem like our fishery is be negaively impacted due to all the tnxs I don't think anyone can remember it being any better. Middle River ia another story. The salinity level in MR is to high for fingerlings and thus is not a good spawning area. That is why have been having succesful stocking program there for years, thanks to Scott Sewell. MR is starting to come back because the adult fish (10-12'') they are stocking can survive in that salinity level. You may contact me if you like for more information and if I don't have it off hand I can get it for you. Tight Lines in 2014 to all.

Tom
MBN 2nd Vice President

Totally understand what you are saying! That's why I rarely fish Hopatcong or Greenwood in NJ any more. I would rather drive down to the flats to either fun fish or do a tourney here or there! Being from central NJ, it takes me almost the same amount of time to drive south to MD as opposed to North NJ and pay $20 yes I said that $20 to launch the boat. It's ridiculous!

[RiverRatMD]

Quote: "You should talk to Dave about your concerns and ask him to spread his tnxs around further because if he don't the government will step in and I can guarantee none of us will like what they come up with. Dave has a good following and I think he will still have it if he spreads his launch sites around."


People did.....Dave did try a tourney trail down south.....Something like 8 boats showed up, then it dropped from there. That didn't last long - not much of a following (or Money) when Dave doesn't do what the Money Tournament anglers want to do. Dave knows that those guys won't come down south. That's why he continues to hold them at Tydings and Anchor - That's where everyone wants to fish & that's where the money is. And don't be mistaken, it IS about making money. It's a money-making BUSINESS. And I've seen fisheries get wiped-out by these money tournaments. The problem is, since these tournaments are ALL up north, certain southern fisheries have gotten fished out in just a few weeks and never re-plenished. Used up, and trashed. Then the local anglers that were fishing them for fun get screwed!

But I'm sure you know more than I do being in the Maryland Bass politics as long as you have (speaking of Gov't). I just think "do nothing" is a crappy option. Like I said, I like Dave. He's a nice guy. But he's gone money tournament crazy and it's impacting the fishery and habitat. I know that there's some stocking going on as i've been in touch with Mr Love as well. And I have offered my suggestions (which is all I would want anyone to do). I certainly wouldn't ask for his or anyones tournaments to be stopped - that would be ridiculous. I wouldn't focus on what we Can't do - I would suggest we focus on what we can do. One of my suggestions was to transport some of the 2-3 pound tournament fish from Anchor and Tydings to Stillpond for example. I think Mr Love should hear from the anglers and offer any help they can. You say MD Bass Nation has worked with Joe Love many years about these concerns. Has Mr Love or Md Bass offered any suggestions to Dave?

Luckily, right now the upper bay is in a very mature cycle and is full of quality bass. I hope it stays that way. If we treat her right and don't abuse it, it should stay great for a long time. I just wish the fisheries that have been fished out and abused can get some attention. It could be better, we just have to get it there.

Rat

[RiverRatMD]

One more thing, if anything is going to impact this fishery and the bay negatively it's the crap dumping in from the Susky. MD has implemented a "rain tax" to help the bay but all this is going to to is make us pay more taxes that will not do a dam thing to help the Bay. It will also put plenty of businesses out of business or make them leave. The fact is that 95% of the crap dumping into the bay from the Susky comes from PA and NY. To date these two states have done nothing to help. The Conowingo Dam is past capacity of it's sediment retention capability and needs to be cleaned up. The cost of that is in the tens of millions yet the power company wants to put the cost on the state of MD. Everyone wants to talk about what needs to be done but they don't want to pay for it. One day the sediment build up at the Dam will need to be cleaned up and guess what, we will be paying for that too probably with no help from Pa OR NY.

I agree 100% PA,NJ, & NY should pay up and do their part. I don't usually talk a bunch of politics and taxes because it's pointless....but someone in Annapolis needs to make this a priority. Pay up Tidechaser

[TideChaser]

I agree 100% PA,NJ, & NY should pay up and do their part. I don't usually talk a bunch of politics and taxes because it's pointless....but someone in Annapolis needs to make this a priority. Pay up Tidechaser

Let's go to Greenwood Lake and see how huge the lake is LOL. Then proceed to pay the $20 launch fee for a day out on the water and deal with the pleasure boaters and water turds.

[TJ20xd]

Politics aside. We all know you can discuss them forever and never agree on an outcome. Things can be done before the state even gets involved. Anchor could take more steps for tournaments. Install some holding tanks. Ask tournament directors to instruct anglers to use lower dock and not dump fish. On more then one occasion this year you could see as many as 5 bass floating. Just this thread is going to bring attention to the matter. People will get the message.

[TJ20xd]

The Conowingo Dam is past capacity of it's sediment retention capability and needs to be cleaned up. The cost of that is in the tens of millions yet the power company wants to put the cost on the state of MD. Everyone wants to talk about what needs to be done but they don't want to pay for it. One day the sediment build up at the Dam will need to be cleaned up and guess what, we will be paying for that too probably with no help from Pa OR NY.

The Conowingo is in big trouble with sediment, something needs to be done. They knew about this problem for years. But why did they stop the contract with the company to clean up debris in front of dam? No one should pay for this besides the company that made billions from it.

[tdt91]

Politics aside. We all know you can discuss them forever and never agree on an outcome. Things can be done before the state even gets involved. Anchor could take more steps for tournaments. Install some holding tanks. Ask tournament directors to instruct anglers to use lower dock and not dump fish. On more then one occasion this year you could see as many as 5 bass floating. Just this thread is going to bring attention to the matter. People will get the message.

I agree with you, Anchor could put in at a minimum a weigh in Station with tubs like the MBN put in at Dundee, Smallwood and Deep Creek. It would be nice for a holding tank as well so fish can be transported out to the flats and released. Joe Love has also told us he can issue letters to those in tnxs to be able to carry more than your limit of 5 fish when taking them back out to be leased rather than dumping them all at Anchor.

[tdt91]

John, my point is that we need to be careful what we ask for and this is from experience. Years ago when our license fee's went up it was because the MBN and other organizations had agree to not fight it if the extra money went to DNR to help manage the fishery. Owe'malley and the legislature lied to us and used the extra money for other things. I was never for the increase and voiced against it but it was a done deal.
Give an inch they take a mile.

[RiverRatMD]

I get you Tom, I understand what you're saying. I surely do. And I certainly would hate to see good intentions rewarded with punishing the very fishermen wanting to make a positive change. So if we need to be careful what we ask for....Do we then just never ask questions? Do you feel it's best at this point to leave matters as is? As in, It is what it is? Not trying to be a wisea$$ Tom, I seriously value your opinion.

[tdt91]

I'll bring it up at the next Exe board meeting and get opinions from others. Scott Sewell is the one tuned into this the most, he will know if anything is in the works.
We have seen the NE and flats loaded with fish for years now and it only seems to be getting better up there. As far as MR, Dundee and that part of the bay goes it's not what it used to be to say the least. We cannot forget what grass does for the fish and habitat. That part of the bay used to be very good but it used to have a lot of grass as well. With the lack of grass (or other cover) there is not as much food source for the food chain, thus not many bass. The Joppatowne area has plenty of grass and other cover and is still very good as you know. So in conjunction with tons of tnxs and good habitat the fish are loaded up North.

[Skeet'r89]

I agree with you, Anchor could put in at a minimum a weigh in Station with tubs like the MBN put in at Dundee, Smallwood and Deep Creek. It would be nice for a holding tank as well so fish can be transported out to the flats and released. Joe Love has also told us he can issue letters to those in tnxs to be able to carry more than your limit of 5 fish when taking them back out to be leased rather than dumping them all at Anchor.

I am pretty sure the owner of Anchor Marina could give two shits about how many fish die after a weight in or a means to help the problem. The only thing he cares about is the $10 a pop that we all pay to launch a boat. Cash money in his pocket, a little fib about how few boats he had launch last season and the IRS has no clue how much money he took in. He could buy a release boat from one days ramp fee charges if he wanted to help in any way.

[BNOVO]

I agree with nearly everything above. The SW rivers have been wiped out due to money hungry tournament organizations, and more and more of them are popping up every day. Once the tournaments stopped running out of Dundee and even MR, the fishing started getting really poor around 2005 or so. It's a business for these tournament organizations and they don't care one bit about the rivers that are being wiped out. Unless the MD DNR steps in, maybe forces the tournament organizations to run release boats, nothing will stop them.....and who is going to run a release boat with a 500 gallon+ tank all the way SW to Middle River, Seneca, and other rivers. Those of us who's home waters are around Middle River, Dundee and such are totally screwed. Every year since the 80's when I began striper fishing the fall season in middle river, I'd have 15/20 Lm caught by accident striper fishing. This past year, 2013, in over 20 trips in middle river, I didn't catch a single LM cranking points, grass, and rock. It's been rough....

[tdt91]

Thought this may fit in with this thread.
At the MBN Presidents conference this past Sunday we had the pleasure on Dr. Joe Love as a guest speaker. One of his topics was the Potomac and how the catch rate has been decreasing over the last few years. Many reasons they believe are the cause but without getting into all that I will just tell you what the powers that be are considering. They are considering lowering the per day catch to three bass during April, May, July and August. Not just on the Potomac but also on the Upper Bay as well. They say they don't want to cause confusion. As if all the other things government does don't confuse us. You ever read the hunting and crabbing regulations. The other thing on the table is to change the keep size to 15'' year round. Both idea's were disscussed throughly and we showed in both senerios how it wouldn't make a difference.
There would be a ot of negative that would come of it so it was obvious that no one at the conference was in favor or it.

[TideChaser]

We have always had a closed season for bass here in NJ from the middle of April till the middle of June. You can still fish for bass but you must immediately release them. One lake that I fish Assunpink is considered a trophy bass lake and the limit is 3 fish a person and they must be 15" compared to the normal 5 fish limit 12" fish else where in NJ. I think having a 3 fish limit 15" fish minimum during spawning time may help a little. I would be for catch and release only during the spawning time but I think that might hurt some of the local businesses due to less traffic on the water. I feel it's a situation where one thing may benefit and others lose out no matter how you slice it.

[RiverRatMD]

Thought this may fit in with this thread.
At the MBN Presidents conference this past Sunday we had the pleasure on Dr. Joe Love as a guest speaker. One of his topics was the Potomac and how the catch rate has been decreasing over the last few years. Many reasons they believe are the cause but without getting into all that I will just tell you what the powers that be are considering. They are considering lowering the per day catch to three bass during April, May, July and August. Not just on the Potomac but also on the Upper Bay as well. They say they don't want to cause confusion. As if all the other things government does don't confuse us. You ever read the hunting and crabbing regulations. The other thing on the table is to change the keep size to 15'' year round. Both idea's were disscussed throughly and we showed in both senerios how it wouldn't make a difference.
There would be a ot of negative that would come of it so it was obvious that no one at the conference was in favor or it.

Wow!!!! Very interesting. And further eye opening.

I wish I was there. Talk about not seeing the trees for the forrest! I love the line, Mr Politicians, how WE showed how both senerios wouldn't make a difference. I better start attending these conferences to see what the real agenda's are. Because the agenda of ((Protecting the fish and habitat)) sure seems to have a lot of opposition. WTH!!! I thought better of how our resources were being protected.....Now i'm definately having second thoughts after hearing some of the things I'm hearing. I'm now not so sure the current way of thinking is what is best for our Chesapeake Bay. I'm becoming pretty disappointed the more I hear. I would love to sit down and talk with Dr Love for awhile.....Something tells me he's up against more than is being led on.

[FlyingDogfish]

Master of puppets are pulling they're strings

[boneil]

Why wouldn't a 15" year round and 3 fish limit help? I would think that those limitations would reduce the amount of fish that are taken away from an area during tournaments.

[tdt91]

We have always had a closed season for bass here in NJ from the middle of April till the middle of June. You can still fish for bass but you must immediately release them. One lake that I fish Assunpink is considered a trophy bass lake and the limit is 3 fish a person and they must be 15" compared to the normal 5 fish limit 12" fish else where in NJ. I think having a 3 fish limit 15" fish minimum during spawning time may help a little. I would be for catch and release only during the spawning time but I think that might hurt some of the local businesses due to less traffic on the water. I feel it's a situation where one thing may benefit and others lose out no matter how you slice it.

Last thing most of us want to do is copy anything the socialist state of NJ does but hey, we are run by socialist to so why not. You are correct about the money part. Think about the millions that Charles county brings in when the pro's come to town. FLW & BASS have said they will not come if there is a 3 fish limit. Thats a lot of cash to loose for an unproven idea. The Potomac has grass issues and Snake Head issues. Many don't think a 3 fish limit will do any good. Some say the fish have moved to off shore structure away from the Snake Heads.

[tdt91]

Wow!!!! Very interesting. And further eye opening.

I wish I was there. Talk about not seeing the trees for the forrest! I love the line, Mr Politicians, how WE showed how both senerios wouldn't make a difference. I better start attending these conferences to see what the real agenda's are. Because the agenda of ((Protecting the fish and habitat)) sure seems to have a lot of opposition. WTH!!! I thought better of how our resources were being protected.....Now i'm definately having second thoughts after hearing some of the things I'm hearing. I'm now not so sure the current way of thinking is what is best for our Chesapeake Bay. I'm becoming pretty disappointed the more I hear. I would love to sit down and talk with Dr Love for awhile.....Something tells me he's up against more than is being led on.

Yeah, Joe has a lot of work in front of him. He's in a tough spot because the powers demand something be done because there are (certain) people complaining about the Potomac. We know who one of them is and he is in it for him self and his profits. Fact is they have no real proof of anything, but they will prolly do something to appease.

[tdt91]

Why wouldn't a 15" year round and 3 fish limit help? I would think that those limitations would reduce the amount of fish that are taken away from an area during tournaments.

The problem was lower catch rates on the Potomac. No proof that tnx fishing is killing them however we have the biggest faces so get blamed. Low grass levels and Snake Heads are a huge reason. Yet they want to lower catch rates even though we release them. I won't come out and say it hear but there are complainers that are connected and lower catch rates affect thier income. They notoriously blaim tnx fisherman.