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  1. #1
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    Anybody like the Garcia 1600 & 3600 reels? Pro Max, Black Max, Tournament, Morrum

    Anyone here fish the older (1980s and 90s) Ambassadeur 1600 and 3600 reels? I have a round Black Max 3600 and just bought a round Pro Max 1600 (isn't here yet).I really like this reels, these reels are just a bit smaller than the standard ambassadeur. And I like the fact that Garcia continues to support their reels.

    What is the general opinion of these smaller round baitcast reels? I use spinning reels to cast lightweight stuff, but really enjoy using a solid baitcast reel when I can.

    I understand the 1600, 3600, 5600, etc part. Narrow to wide spools.

    Do I have this right on the smaller round Abu Garcia baitcaster "quality"?
    Top of the line first, on down.

    Morrum
    T-Series Tournament
    Pro Max
    Black Max

    Are there any other versions of this series that I've missed?

  2. Member
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    #2
    Love the reels but switched to Revo's, promax is above the T series, If you are looking for more 3600, 1600 i have several just sitting around collecting dust.
    2002 Ranger 518 DVX
    Helix 12 and 1199
    80# fortrex
    Blue water pimped

  3. Member
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    #3
    I have a ProMax 3600C that I picked up at a yard sale for $5.00. After a little work (new line guide pawl, clean and polish, and swapping the white brake blocks for blue ones) it's a darn nice little reel. Your Black Max 3600 is essentially the same reel, just a couple less bearings. They're in a whole different league than the present-day "Max" series.

    Tom

  4. Member eyra_kid's Avatar
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    #4
    My first baitcaster was a Black Max 1600. It's still in use nearly 20 years later. ReelDoc on here told me how to tune it up nice. I added Boca ABEC5 bearings, carbontext drag, and changed to the lighter brake blocks. I also added a Revo Premier handle since the knobs were basically falling off the old one. It is a fantastic little reel for casting lighter baits, and I don't use it near as often as I should.

  5. Member
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    #5
    The Morrum is in a class by itself. I had a 3600 and worked on one of the Morrum spinning reels for a buddy. They are like a Swiss watch. Typically, because they are all machined aluminum, they are a little heavy. They are well made and very smooth.

  6. Member
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    #6
    I bought 2 1600 Black Max reels in the early '90's and they are still a great reel. I changed the 5:3-1 gears to 6:3-1 just to speed them up. I also have a couple of the M series Morrums and some SX Morrums (8 oz reels) in both 3600 and 1600 size. Great Reels.

  7. Member
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    #7
    Morrums are the bomb. I miss that old reel. I sent it in for service and Abu offered to let me trade it near even for a STX. I like the Stx as well, but that morrum was sure missed.

  8. Member
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    #8
    I'm trying not to get caught up in the "latest and greatest" craze, and stick with solid dependable performers. I used to work in a Sporting Goods store and still have several Fenwick HMG rods, some older Shimano low profile reels, older Ambassadeurs, etc. etc. I try to buy good equipment that will last. I love Ambassadeur reels because of the way they support even the old stuff.

    I've gone a little crazy and bought a 1600 Morrum and a 3600 Morrum, plus a couple of Pro Max 1600's.

    The Pro Max's are here, they are nice reels but don't seem much different from the Black Max. I am anxious to get my hands on the Morrum's.

    I found my old reels in a box in the attic, and have a second Black Max 3600, and a Tournament 5600, and a low profile Tournament 3000C.

    I think I'm pretty well set, but if anyone has any of these reels they want to sell cheap, shoot me a PM.

  9. Member
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    #9
    One more question, where do the "SM" series reels fit it?

    For example the SM3600C ???

  10. Member
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    #10
    I've got several of the round Ambassadeur Pro Max 1600's on Ebay and reconditioned them. ReelDoc recommended them to me 10 yrs ago. Although not as light as more modern reels, they are really sweet. The Pro Max retailed for $170 in 1970 and was top of the line. Lifetime warranty. 6 internal bearings. 5.3 gears are good for crankbaits but you can upgrade them to 6.0 gears if you want. I don't know exactly why - some magic engineering I guess - but they are the least backlashing reels I've ever owned - and I use mostly Shimanos and Revos. Put one brake block in it, loosen the cast control knob until you have a tiny bit of sideplay on the spool, and you can cast all day without a backlash. Try that with any modern reel! The only thing I disliked is that the bearings under the handle paddles are often fried when you get an old Pro Max. To fix that, I just bought some C3 3600 handles (no bearings) for a few bucks and replaced the original handles. I will say that the 1600 works best with light line because of its "Triple Cross" levelwind that scoots back and forth faster than average. But it makes for an excellent pitching reel with any size line. You can still get parts for these reels 40 yrs after manufacture.

  11. Member
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    #11
    One of the Pro Max 1600's I got originally had a "chrome" finish, but it's in pretty bad shape appearance wise. I wonder if Garcia would re-finish it? Or if it could be painted?

  12. Every Man A Wildcat!! ReelDoc's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
    I'm trying not to get caught up in the "latest and greatest" craze, and stick with solid dependable performers. I used to work in a Sporting Goods store and still have several Fenwick HMG rods, some older Shimano low profile reels, older Ambassadeurs, etc. etc. I try to buy good equipment that will last. I love Ambassadeur reels because of the way they support even the old stuff.

    I've gone a little crazy and bought a 1600 Morrum and a 3600 Morrum, plus a couple of Pro Max 1600's.

    The Pro Max's are here, they are nice reels but don't seem much different from the Black Max. I am anxious to get my hands on the Morrum's.

    I found my old reels in a box in the attic, and have a second Black Max 3600, and a Tournament 5600, and a low profile Tournament 3000C.

    I think I'm pretty well set, but if anyone has any of these reels they want to sell cheap, shoot me a PM.
    Differences between the round Pro Max and the Black Max reels:
    1) Black Max has 2 bearings on the spool plus the IAR (3 total). Pro Max adds 2 bearings in the handle knobs, 2 on the level wind worm shaft, and a pinion bearing in the set plate (8 total).
    2) Color - the Black Max was black (duh!) and the Pro Max was Silver (some were chrome). The black finish is MUCH more durable.

    Other than that they are IDENTICAL reels. Check the schematics and part numbers. The T3000 is a low profile reel with the same innards as the Pro Max.

    There were (last time I checked) three gears sets available for these reels - 4.7:1 (from the 6600W), 5.2:1 (most common), and 6.3:1 (from the "C" models). I still have three Pro Black Maxes (Black Max with Pro Max set plates with pinion bearing) - one with each gear ratio.

    As eyra_kid mentioned, swap out the stock white brakes for the blue brakes and it's a great little reel.


    SSgt, US Air Force, 1967-75

    Veteran - a person who at some time in their life wrote a blank check payable to "The United States of America" in the amount of "up to and including my life".

  13. Member
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
    One more question, where do the "SM" series reels fit it?

    For example the SM3600C ???



    if memory serves, the sm3600c had 6 bearings...the s3600c only 3.

  14. Member
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    #14
    Anyone know of a good reel mechanic who knows these reels? Or at least a place to buy upgraded bearings, brakes, handles, etc.

  15. Every Man A Wildcat!! ReelDoc's Avatar
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Warhawk View Post
    Anyone know of a good reel mechanic who knows these reels? Or at least a place to buy upgraded bearings, brakes, handles, etc.
    Bearings - they take two 3 x 10 x 4 mm bearings on the spool - the same size as most Shimanos. The Tackle Trap (just down the road from me) carries several different bearings this size. Boca orange seal ceramics are top notch, but expensive. Give Brian a call and he'll help you out. You can go directly to Abu Garcia for brakes, factory handles, etc. 1-800-ABU-GARCia. I can help with part numbers and schematics if you need them.

    Jim


    SSgt, US Air Force, 1967-75

    Veteran - a person who at some time in their life wrote a blank check payable to "The United States of America" in the amount of "up to and including my life".

  16. Member
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    #16
    Where does one get the 6.3 gears? Thanks.

  17. Member
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by ReelDoc View Post
    Bearings - they take two 3 x 10 x 4 mm bearings on the spool - the same size as most Shimanos. The Tackle Trap (just down the road from me) carries several different bearings this size. Boca orange seal ceramics are top notch, but expensive. Give Brian a call and he'll help you out. You can go directly to Abu Garcia for brakes, factory handles, etc. 1-800-ABU-GARCia. I can help with part numbers and schematics if you need them.

    Jim
    Thanks, I'd like to have the schematics and part numbers.

    PM sent

  18. Member
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    #18
    I know I am late contributing, but 1600's are great reels. I started using them in the late 90s. After a few years, I decided to find something newer to replace them. I bought Bantams (100 and 200 size), Calcuttas (50, 100, and 200 size), and even Revos. Nothing compares. I can cast a 1/8 ounce Norman deep tiny N all day long.

    I finally just gave up and resigned myself to a lifetime of 1600's. I buy every one I can lay my hands on (more than 50 at this point). The black and pro max's are basically the same reel. When I buy a black max, I replace the worm bushings with bearings (3x7x3) and I replace the bushing in the brake plate (8x12x3.5) though I do not recommend this for the feint of heart.

    Anything that wears can be replaced. The gears can be upgraded to 6.3 (#s 22222 and 22221). Change to blue brake blocks (20209), and you are in for an easy day of casting. I prefer Gator Grip's (G1 maybe?).

    I tried perforating the spool on one to mimic newer reels but I could not detect any difference. They are high quality reels that last forever. I use 3600's and 5600's (saltwater fishing) from time to time, but 1600's are my favorite.

  19. Member eyra_kid's Avatar
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    #19
    Thanks for that info, Unutt! Sounds like you have quite the collection of them. 50!

  20. Member
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    #20
    Unutt, glad you contributed to the thread. Bringing it up gives me a chance to add something as well.

    Last spring I picked up 3 of the Black Max 1600 reels as a package deal. Had been wanting to try a small Abu round reel. Probably would have bought just one if the seller had been selling them individually. Was glad I got all 3 once I had a chance to use one of them. They are amazing reels to throw into the wind. I had a small unweighted fluke on, and at one point was casting directly into a pretty stiff breeze. Managed one over-run when I got careless on a bomb.

    Picked up a new Morrum Mag SX1600C over the winter. Spooled up some 8# Big Game, mounted it on a new Quantum Tour Edition 7' Medium, and headed for the lake with a couple other new combos. Unfortunately the Morrum still hasn't been used. There was a hole in the dam. Lake is shallow when full. Got depressed after a few casts with a couple other combos and headed home.

    I want to change gears on 2 of the Black Max reels. Have already received Carbontex drags for all of them and one set of Ceramic bearings to try. May try making a handle for one. First I have see to what a knob looks like so I'll know whether or not I can make a handle. Never seen one off a reel.

    Anyone know what would be a good knob to order?
    Last edited by new2BC4bass; 06-19-2013 at 08:53 PM.

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