Yamaha Lower Unit / warranty

[ql0j0lp]

I'm not the type to ask for help but I am hoping some of you can give advice on how to deal with my situation when dealing with Yamaha.

I bought a 19' Xpress boat with a 2006 150 HP carburated Yamaha.

I live in Illinois and traveled to Bossier City Louisiana to buy the boat I found on line because the price was right and it was a bare bones boat I could modify as needed to fit my style of fishing.

I am a shallow water fanatic who also loves to fish deep when the fish pull off shore.

I have only fished a couple of tournaments with the boat and spent a week pre fishing the Alexandria chain of lakes in Minnesota for the 12 man northern regional to be held in September.

I won the first tournament I fished out of the new boat. It was an ESPN Outdoors weekend series tournament 'Hawkeye Division" held on Mississippi river pool 19 out of Fort Madison Iowa. "Some times life is really really good".

I then pre fished at Alexandria, were I did rub some of the paint off the skeg in the sand because of the shallow water going under the bridges.

The next tournament was at Dubuque Iowa on the Mississippi river. This was the second tournament with the Hawkeye division.

Until the take off at Dubuque I had been breaking the motor in and was taking care to break the motor in per Yamaha's instructions. While pre fishing for Dubuque and idling in and out of some of the shallow water places I wanted to try I did bump a couple of stumps. This was at less than 1200 rpm. I got stuck once while on the trolling motor and had to use the big motor to push out of the shallow area I was stuck in. Again since I was still breaking the motor in I never ran the motor over 4,000 rpm and only had to travel about 20 ft to get unstuck.

<U>This is were things seem a little strange</U>. The first time I took the boat out to start the break in period I noticed some vibration that I could feel coming from the motor. I ran the motor the first couple hours at Yamaha's recommendations then ran the motor up to 50 mph at 5,000 rpm. As I tried to go faster the rpm would go up but the speed did not. After that I put the boat on the trailer and went home.

I started looking into what prop should be on the boat and discovered the boat came with a 20 pitch prop that was meant for a 115 to 130 hp motor. Needless to say I started smelling a rat as far as the prop was concerned. I tried on several occasions to contact Xpress to find out what prop was supposed to come with the
150 HP motor. We played phone tag for a couple of weeks and I never did get my answer.

I borrowed a spare prop from my dad to use till I got my prop situation straightened out and had been using it till after the Dubuque tournament. The vibration problem seemed to go away with this prop.

The run to my fishing spot at Dubuque was apx 20 miles long. This was the first time I ran wide open for more than a couple minutes at a time. Engine RPM was 5300 - 5400 rpm. Got to my spot with no problems. After a few hours fishing at the first spot I had to idle out to deeper water and noticed I could hear a strange sound that made me think I had a jack plate or transom problem. The sound I heard was intermittent and could only be heard every once in awhile.

I then put the boat on plane and went apx half mile to my next spot. I heard no noises till I got off plane and was idling up to my next spot. Again I heard those noises, they were still irregular but more frequent. I looked over the transom and jack plate but could find nothing wrong.

Going to the next spot I heard the noise again as I put the boat on plane but could hear no noise while on plane. Went another half mile and fished. Decided to go to the next spot, now the noise was getting worse and I could hear it while on plane. I stopped the boat and, raised the motor up so I could inspect the prop. I thought maybe I would find a cracked blade but found nothing unusual. I told my partner we were going to start heading back to the ramp cause I did not know what was going on. The noise did not seem to becoming from the lower unit but we had fish and I wanted to protect my points lead. I put the boat on plane and ran apx 3,500 rpm stopping occasionally to try and figure out were the noise was coming from. The noise was intermittent then suddenly it sounded like a rod came out the side of the motor but there was no loss of power. I turned to look at the motor, then there was a terrible crunch sound that was definatly from the lower end. (I lost a lower unit on another boat and heard that noise before. I shut the motor down as fast as I could and never restarted.

I have taken the boat and motor to a local Yamaha dealer. He sent a report and pictures to Yamaha. The prop shaft was slightly bent but did not cause any seal or bearing damage. (I did not bend this shaft!)

Yamaha has turned down my warranty claim saying the damage was caused by impact damage. They are basing their decision on the fact that the shaft was slightly bent. I explained to them I did nothing to bend the shaft and there was no vibration using the borrowed prop. The shaft was not twisted, this is common in impact failures. There was no visible wobble when spinning the prop on the shaft.

I talked to the mechanic the other day and he said that when he went to pull the pinion gear off the shaft the NUT WAS LOOSE. Yamaha blew this off saying the Broken gear teeth debris caused the nut to come loose.

Part of my job is analyzing fuel system failures for a major engine manufacturer. I have taken the pinion and forward drive gear and examined them. The gear breakage on both could very well indicate that the pinion gear did drop low enough on to the drive gear to break the teeth toward the center of the drive gear, and the teeth on the pinion gear tended to break at the top, again indicating the pinion may have dropped to low on the drive gear. I will admit this may have not been the start of the failure mode but did contribute to the catastrophic failure of the lower unit.

The mechanic also told me the clutch retainer? was torn up, he said this was unusual.

I called Yamahas customer service center and explained to them that I never hit anything that would bend the shaft and that the shaft was not twisted. They are still refusing my claim.

I have been told the shaft could have been bent during the rigging procedure, or it could have been bent at the dealership I bought it at before I picked it up. I could not test drive the boat the day I picked it up cause it was raining about as hard as I have ever seen it rain.

To date this failure cost me a shot at the win on POOL 12 (apx. $2000.00). I did finish 8th and held on to the point lead thanks to another competitor giving me and my partner a ride back to the weigh in. I have also made three trips to the dealer (apx 200 miles total). And of coarse my time spent trying to find out what really happened to this lower unit.

Yamaha has told me to turn my claim into insurance. How do I turn in a claim when I tell the insurance company the failure was not caused by an impact that I am not aware of?

Some times life really, really sucks.

I would appreciate any replies.

Thanks for reading

A J Menssen

[WDBrand]

Man...that was a long post, you must have typers cramp.
Sounds like an insurance claim to me. I would tell my insurance co. that I hit underwater objects (like you described) that must have bent the prop shaft thus resulting in LU failure. Your proof is in the bent prop shaft, the scrapes on the skeg/LU and the dealer that is doing the work. I'm suprised the dealer did not suggest this. I would expect dealers go through this at times. Good Luck!

[FishinIsHeaven]

Why did the dealer have the wrong prop on your engine to begin with? It almost sounds like they damaged the original and put the lower pitched on because thats what they had laying around. I'm not saying its their fault but something sounds hokey. Good luck with your insurance coompany and I hope you get back on the water real soon!

Blake

[OkieBoatMech]

A slight bend in a prop. shaft not corrected can cause vibration and harmonics to build up after some time eventually causing internal damage to the bearings and gears. Place an insurance claim for impact damage and you should be covered.

[Mike Daleo]

I am not suprised that the dealer set your boat up with the wrong prop. not all dealers do this, but my old dealer did it to me and it could have been a mistake but I doubt it. If Yamaha claims that you made an impact, that should be good enough for your insurance company. I would go that route, maybe even get it in writing from the dealer that an impct caused the damage so you can give it to your agent.

[ql0j0lp]

Weellll Geeezzzz

I thought maybe most of the replies would be in favor of going after Yamaha for the warranty since there was no vibration with the borrowed prop, right up till things let loose.

I took the pinion gear and forward drive gear to work and examined them. It looks like the pinion gear did indeed drop down (loose nut) and probably started the detonation process.

Had the seal leaked oil or there had been enough bend in the shaft that I could see a wobble with the prop on the shaft I would never have questioned the impact diagnosis.

Thanks for the replies.

I guess I will have to carry a spare lower unit.

A J Menssen

[ql0j0lp]

I Just looked at the lower unit on the Yamaha that I borrowed the prop from. It has at least .120" total run out on the shaft that has probably been there since the prop was replaced with a new one several years ago.

You can't see my shaft wobble with out putting a dial indicator on it (unless you have really good eyes). it only has .018" total run out.

I'm more convinced than ever this was not an impact failure.

The Yamaha Tech has only seen pictures and not fully inspected himself. Still denying warranty.

Insurance company said they will not cover the lower unit if there is only normal wear and tear on the skeg and shaft. They are aware that the prop was a borrowed spare prop and had a few dings in it.

Has anyone else had problems with Yamaha warranty?

A J Menssen

[rockangler]

Sorry about your bad luck, but I can only praise yamahas warenty. I had my 2004 hpdi for only about 3 months when my lower unit went down. There was now visible sign that would have given advanced warrning. Happend on a wensday, called my dealer from the lake and headed that way. Soon as I got there they started tearing it down, and said that we let me know what they found and what yamaha had to say. Figured I would be down a couple weeks at best. Dealer called me Friday. Said come get your boat. Yamaha had overnighted lower unit and was ready to go. As far as your insurance, A buddy and I where fishing a tourny out of his boat. The day before while practicing we hit a stump at low speed. Raised the motor, inspected everything really well. Could find nothing. Not even a scratch on skeg or prop. Fished all day. Next day while making about a 45 Min. run started hearing a noise. Buddy thought it was a fouled plug. Never felt any vibration until we shut down at our first spot and it about shook us out of the boat.Insurance replaced everything. My point was (no visiable damage) Sounds as if you need A new insurance man. Good luck and good fishing!! Gary

[toledo bend jim]

Have been running Hammers since '91 and outside of water pumps the dealer/factory have taken care of everything. Even brought a 150 Yammie with 13 days left in warranty for what i thought was a bad alternator and wound up leaving with a brand new H/T power head- complete! No parts,no labor, no freight, FREE!!! Gotta love my rice burner. Later Jim

[Mike Daleo]

Just had a lower unit go out on me and was warned of Yamahas strict "no Impact" policy for warranties on lower units. I knew I hit nothing and they came through with the warranty for me. The dealer had to take tons of pics and send them into Yamaha but in the end they took care of me.

[ql0j0lp]

Thanks everyone for all the input.

I have a couple tournaments coming up the next couple of weeks.

Guess what hats not going back on my head till this all gets straightened out, if ever again.

Kinda liked that hat.

A J Menssen