Buying a house with unpermitted additions

[191 champ]

Looking at a house with an obviously added detached garage. Possibly the attached garage was added as well. It was built in 1956 and updated probably numerous times.

I called the permitting office and they had no permits issued for that address. They suggested calling the tax assessment office and I called and left a message.

The house is in Winston Salem NC. Google says that the new owner can be fined and potentially remove the property depending on what might be found in NC. I am sure that this is not the only house built in the 50s that might have unpermitted work, or missing permits at the records office.

Have you ever knew someone that had to have additions inspected after the fact?

Going to look at it this afternoon and might have a better idea of how old the additions are.

[mean_dean]

Make it part of the sale, current owner must get and pay for all permits for any upgrades before the sale.

[Ranger Rod]

Does it show the garage on the survey?

[RoadrashPaul]

Are you worried the work isn't up to code standards? If you really like the house have it inspected and see how bad it is.

[C0MRAD]

I owned a house that had additions from before the city was incorporated, so all the work was unpermitted. The city knew this and didn't care. They said everything that was done prior to a certain date was grandfathered in. Every jurisdiction is different though. Call your local city/county permitting offices and ask them.

[Gthunter5]

people finish their basements all the time without pulling permit..

[RangrSkipr]

Are you worried the work isn't up to code standards? If you really like the house have it inspected and see how bad it is.

This ^^^ Hire a home inspector to ensure all systems, construction and wiring are up to code. The home inspector will not research permits. He may if you ask and are willing to pay but really he couldn't care less. The county assessor will do his thing and revaluate the property accordingly once the sale is completed. The assessor uses permits to increase the tax valuation of any property and may require an on site valuation depending on when the sellers last valuation occurred. Ask. Either of these has the potential of being used as a negotiating tool by you the buyer.

If the sell of every home thats been remodeled or addition was contingent on permits being pulled nothing would ever get sold. Insurance and your lender if borrowing money will be your biggest hurdle but easily worked out depending on how major or minor any home inspection violations might be.

[SLIM-285]

If it is that old are you not buying it as is ?
If you make the county aware of the add ons your taxes might just go up .

[191 champ]

Are you worried the work isn't up to code standards? If you really like the house have it inspected and see how bad it is.

Not as concerned about poor workmanship as I am about the city permitting office asking to inspect unpermitted additions.

My concern stems from a conversation I had with a couple Realtors 10+ years ago who said that they are starting to see that after a sale, the city/county assessor sees that there is now a finished basement or added garage, and then notifies the permitting office. They had said that the permitting office in some cases would bust out sheetrock etc. to inspect post construction. I am sure this "could" happen but in reality how often does it really happen.

Has anyone actually seen this happen? A city permitting office asking to perform inspection of unpermitted work?

[The5thDutton]

Different state, but a friend of mine bought a lake house several years ago. Docks on this particular lake are permitted by sq ft. At some point before he bought the place, the dock was expanded beyond the size scoped in the original permit. After he took possession, shortly thereafter the permitting agency caught wind. He was forced to deconstruct a portion of the dock to return it to its permitted size.

[link30240]

Cities only care about permits for tax purposes, they are always looking for ways to get into your wallet. No way would I ever involve more then necessary the city or county in any business deal including buying a house. If you like the house have a home inspection done to see if its up to code and buy it or negotiate the price down to cover repairs. But leave the city/county out of it, they are not looking out for your interests!

[Mark Perry]

Can it even legally be sold without it being addressed?

[NitroZ7]

Think about when you may want to sell. What may your buyer require if they are aware of this? If something was done without a permit then the city/county may require you to pull a permit, and do inspections and close a permit. In a worst case scenario they could require you to remove the improvement or partially remove something for an inspection. If for some reason the county/city becomes aware of the un permitted work they could file a code enforcement lien. I would probably require the Seller to get it sorted out.

[bdog7198]

If there is nothing special about the house why bother dealing with it? Plenty of houses out there.

[sushi520vx]

It depends on the local laws. Some jurisdictions could care less while others will make the homeowner tear it down or bring it up to code. A friend of mine was a realtor and I had to bring a few properties up to code before the house could be sold.

As Gthunter5 mentioned above, a lot of basements are finished or remodeled without permits and are sold without any issues. Ive heard a few reasons they dont look at basements, 1) they are non structural, and 2) due to moisture, most basement finishing wont last more than 20yrs. Again, it depends on the jurisdiction. Most want that tax money.

[mflora98ss]

Something to be concerned about is if you ever have an insurance claim on your home for fire or flood then the insurance company can pull permits and deny your claim if no permits for electrical, plumbing, or structural had ever been performed.

[mattmann7]

Not as concerned about poor workmanship as I am about the city permitting office asking to inspect unpermitted additions.

My concern stems from a conversation I had with a couple Realtors 10+ years ago who said that they are starting to see that after a sale, the city/county assessor sees that there is now a finished basement or added garage, and then notifies the permitting office. They had said that the permitting office in some cases would bust out sheetrock etc. to inspect post construction. I am sure this "could" happen but in reality how often does it really happen.

Has anyone actually seen this happen? A city permitting office asking to perform inspection of unpermitted work?

Yes . My last big remodel the owner was selling the house after I finished. The town forced her to remove the back porch and rebuild it. It was the third time the porch was rebuilt. First time without a permit by original owner. Second time the woman I worked for had it done over prior to sale without a permit. Inspector forced her to tear it down and rebuild with a permit. It was less than a month old.

I was threatened to be arrested on a job I subcontracted via a Real estate agent I did work for. The home was 25 years old and the back porch was never permitted. Being a raised ranch with a porch toward the back entrance the thought of a non permitted structure never crossed my mind. I was hired by the agent to replace the porch like for like except using pressure treated. At final inspection the town did not find any permits on the porch from day the home was built forward. I was called and threatened. I argued my case that I was a third party subcontractor and not responsible for permitting work. The agent paid for the permits and I was reprimanded about future projects in that town.


The town I live in has a grid in clear plastic that is made to the same scale as the street maps which are laying out property boundaries and permanant structures. They drop it on the street map and can attest to all existing projects done with their knowledge. If they hire to update the grid by aerial or satelitte imagary they can find all the non permitted projects.


I would have a theoretical conversation with a city planner or similar about the issue and how the town deals with your circumstance. Things can get stupid real fast if the town knows someone is trying to be non compliant. I have never had an issue with compliance at the city level as long as I was upfront. In general they have to cover the ass of the towns liabilities. Given the oppurtunity most are happy to work a structure into compliance has been my experience. As long as you know who the final word belongs to. I live in a historical district and the trend now is to lawyer up to get zoning tweeks.

[Rangerdeepv]

That would be a house I would walk away from.............

[191 champ]

Something to be concerned about is if you ever have an insurance claim on your home for fire or flood then the insurance company can pull permits and deny your claim if no permits for electrical, plumbing, or structural had ever been performed.

I read this online too and thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate all of the input.

Definitely passing this one by. The attached garage looked like it was added at least a couple decades ago and there was no sign of settling, cracks in the floor, sheetrock, etc. However, I walked into the kitchen and there is a window to the attached garage. There's your sign! The attached garage, the detached garage, the basement, and it looked like what was the porch had been encompassed into the kitchen. Numerous little things beside the window. Just too much liability.

The realtor said that she'd seen the scenario I was concerned about several times but said that it was usually when someone informed the permitting office. Knowing my luck, someone from the permitting office would be interested in the house and be pissed if I got it first.

[Fishingfarmer]

I would wonder if they even needed permits in 1956.