Here you go-Hank Parker says what needs to be said on FFS!

[billnorman1]

I love the way some folks attribute attitudes and motives to folks who disagree with them..."They're just jealous;" "They're old and can't adapt;" etc. There are a much deeper issues that lie behind those who are critical of FFS and Hank stated a primary one his own way, "It's hurting our sport." .................................................. ................................. dispense with the ad hominem comments directed at those with which we disagree, we're not going to get anywhere in resolving the debate and will continue "talking past" each other.

Jeff, that is a great well thought out composition.

I still stand by my opinion although roundly criticized, video gaming.

[Jbass123]

Do the bass know they’re digital?

[Toni]

Since many of you are pro-FFS, pro-electronics and hunters also, I say we legalize electronic duck calls so young hunters who don't know how to call get a chance to shoot at more ducks. As long as we're using electronics to take "fair chase" away from fish, might as well use it to take it away from ducks. Just think, there'd be more duck hunters shooting a lot more ducks...that's a good thing....isn't it?

It's not "good" or "bad." It just is.

Therein lies the problem. People want to judge something that is just a thing. Make it into everything it's not. Mostly based on how they see it impacting them personally. Hank says in high school angling tournaments the playing field isn't level, one or two have it, then most have not and can't afford it. So? Are we trying to eliminate jealousy from tournament fishing at all levels now?

Some kids get 250 HP outboards on their boats daddy buys them, or daddy buys and lets them fish out of. Other do not. Is he for limiting HP on the outboard to keep things fair at blastoff when they all run off to the best holes on the lake and it's a race to see who can get to one first? How about rods and reels on the deck, some kids have multiple multiples, others have a handful and have to make do with less. Do we limit rod and reels so no one has an unfair advantage of just picking up the next combo already set to cast the next bait while others kids lose time having to retie more often? That's not fair. Some have expensive reels that cast farther, retrieve better, rods that are more sensitive than others and cost more. Do we have to address the differences there too, make it "fair" for everyone?

In other high school sports some kids have personalized trainers, specific batting coaches, fielding coaches, kicking coaches, etc while others don't. Do we limit those too to make the playing field fair?

He goes on to say that some of these younger anglers, they aren't really good anglers, they're just good with FFS. Well, what were the young guns good at back when they were pushing the old guard out? I am pretty sure the old farts with limited funds were not happy when Rick Clunn et al were booking flights over the lakes to gain an advantage too. Or when Blaukat flooded his boat for access to a part of a body of water for the win, I am sure there were some who were saying "boats weren't meant to be sunk!!!!" and they were just mad they didn't think of it and lost to the guy who did.

He's wrong. Modern tournament angling in this era is FFS angling. Period. Get with the program or get left behind, it's that simple. Change isn't hurting the sport, it's just changing it. And people need to start seeing the difference and quit arguing its something its not.

[WAWI]

Someone should do a grumpy old men meme with randy and hank.....

[JTN]

Since many of you are pro-FFS, pro-electronics and hunters also, I say we legalize electronic duck calls so young hunters who don't know how to call get a chance to shoot at more ducks. As long as we're using electronics to take "fair chase" away from fish, might as well use it to take it away from ducks. Just think, there'd be more duck hunters shooting a lot more ducks...that's a good thing....isn't it?

9

No worries the way the states are lining up to remove all of are firearms…in 50 years the only hunting will be hunting through photo albums of the old days… Once the anti’s get that accomplished fishing will be next.

[Quillback]

Hank has certainly earned his opinion, but I find some of the arguments to be bs. The “think of the poor children” expense part is bs to me. In the grand scheme of tournament fishing it really isn’t that expensive. I think if the market demands ffs tournaments, they will pop up and become popular. If nationwide ffs free tournaments became a big draw, I certainly think it’d be worth looking into changing rules. I just don’t have any faith that those that complain the most will actually pony up entry fees.

Yeah if you want the "poor children" to be competitive, better set limits on boats - nothing over a $300 WalMart kayak is allowed.

[Rumour2u]

He needs to stick to stealing other peoples bait designs

[Bass in the grass]

Has anyone explained how it’s “hurting the sport”? Randy’s claim was that tournament weights were down, that opinion has been completely blown out of the water.

All the pros have the same equipment, but yet only a few can actually use it. Maybe they should quit sitting off during the fall/winter months and try practicing with it. One of the anglers during the Fork event said, that “he hadn’t picked up a rod since the last BASS tournament in the fall”. These kids and the Japanese anglers are simply out working the crybaby “pros”.

[LDraper]

The FFS debate continues while we have "Pros" running over other boats and college kids losing their life during practice. Seems like there could be other issues more important than FFS.

[Mcjenson]

That's a good point and I don't think that there's a distinct point in time that can be pointed to. But, I think the points I made in a thread a couple weeks back may apply here.

https://www.bbcboards.net/showthread...light=Tom+Mann

Historically, it seems that the types of electronic technology that are readily adopted are the types that helps anglers find fish. In contrast, the types of electronic technology that helps anglers catch fish are generally rejected. The later would include things like the Color-C-Lector and similar devices. However, with depthfinders (often called fish finders), it's more of a continuum than a dichotomy. Historically, most electronics were designed to help an angler find the types of places where fish are likely to live. Yes, you could use them to actually catch a fish, but that wasn't their primary function and they were not very productive to use in that fashion. (Even a flasher could be used to pinpoint a fish, but it was not a very effective tool to use in that manner.) As the technology got better, it could be increasingly used to catch fish...modern 2D sonar being the best example. But, it's was primarily designed and used to find structure. However, FFS was designed and is being used specifically to help angler catch fish. We have slowly progressed along this continuum and have reached the point that many have defined the latest technologies as crossing the line of being "sporting" because instead of supplementing an angler's skill and knowledge, they have become a substitute for skill and knowledge. No doubt, it takes skill to use FFS, but it is not a skill that is a core skill for being an angler that is developed by years of experience in the outdoors, but years of experience behind a video game controller or computer screen.

The ole good at video games / computer not fishing argument.

JT Thompkins put 700 hours on his outboard last year. Tyler Williams spend 36 days straight pre fishing for the classic last winter. Milliken puts in 4-5 14 hour days shooting YouTube videos per week. These guys didn’t get good playing fortnight, they are out working the veterans.

[Quillback]

Has anyone explained how it’s “hurting the sport”? Randy’s claim was that tournament weights were down, that opinion has been completely blown out of the water.

All the pros have the same equipment, but yet only a few can actually use it. Maybe they should quit sitting off during the fall/winter months and try practicing with it. One of the anglers during the Fork event said, that “he hadn’t picked up a rod since the last BASS tournament in the fall”. These kids and the Japanese anglers are simply out working the crybaby “pros”.

It ain't hurting the sport around here. if anything it has added more fishermen. Young kid just won the OMTT on Table Rock last week with a 30 lb. bag. The only thing getting hurt sround here are the old guys egos that are getting whupped by the teenagers.

[Gsmith223]

I always thought that the guys who didnt work and could go out 4-5 days a week had a huge advantage. I think that FFS has filled that gap and thats why the retired old dudes have such a problem with it. Their advantage is gone. I mean who cant catch fish when you are on the water 24 x 7 365?

[250bassFL]

And he says he agrees with Randy, this is really going to make some heads explode, I love it.

[Okie74133]

That's a good point and I don't think that there's a distinct point in time that can be pointed to. But, I think the points I made in a thread a couple weeks back may apply here.

https://www.bbcboards.net/showthread...light=Tom+Mann

Historically, it seems that the types of electronic technology that are readily adopted are the types that helps anglers find fish. In contrast, the types of electronic technology that helps anglers catch fish are generally rejected. The later would include things like the Color-C-Lector and similar devices. However, with depthfinders (often called fish finders), it's more of a continuum than a dichotomy. Historically, most electronics were designed to help an angler find the types of places where fish are likely to live. Yes, you could use them to actually catch a fish, but that wasn't their primary function and they were not very productive to use in that fashion. (Even a flasher could be used to pinpoint a fish, but it was not a very effective tool to use in that manner.) As the technology got better, it could be increasingly used to catch fish...modern 2D sonar being the best example. But, it's was primarily designed and used to find structure. However, FFS was designed and is being used specifically to help angler catch fish. We have slowly progressed along this continuum and have reached the point that many have defined the latest technologies as crossing the line of being "sporting" because instead of supplementing an angler's skill and knowledge, they have become a substitute for skill and knowledge. No doubt, it takes skill to use FFS, but it is not a skill that is a core skill for being an angler that is developed by years of experience in the outdoors, but years of experience behind a video game controller or computer screen.

I think the idea that the young guys having success with FFS have no core skills or instincts is a little exaggerated and unfair. FFS technology is still too new for it to be the only way they have fished. Isn't it possible that they have instincts and core knowledge, and are simply supplementing it with FFS? There seems to be a broad assumption that if you took FFS away from these guys they would just blindly drift around a lake without any clue about seasonal bass behavior. I seriously doubt that's true. They may not have the many years of experience the older guys do but they obviously know the areas to look at, unless they are just cluelessly scanning a 70,000 acre lake staring at the ramp. I think the "no instincts" argument could be valid in 20 years because at that time there will likely be young fishermen who never fished without FFS, but that time isn't right now.

[Mark Perry]

Has anyone explained how it’s “hurting the sport”? Randy’s claim was that tournament weights were down, that opinion has been completely blown out of the water.

All the pros have the same equipment, but yet only a few can actually use it. Maybe they should quit sitting off during the fall/winter months and try practicing with it. One of the anglers during the Fork event said, that “he hadn’t picked up a rod since the last BASS tournament in the fall”. These kids and the Japanese anglers are simply out working the crybaby “pros”.

Did that guy just not fish the Toledo Bend event since Fork was the second event of the season?

[Spot-a-saurus]

I think the idea that the young guys having success with FFS have no core skills or instincts is a little exaggerated and unfair. FFS technology is still too new for it to be the only way they have fished. Isn't it possible that they have instincts and core knowledge, and are simply supplementing it with FFS? There seems to be a broad assumption that if you took FFS away from these guys they would just blindly drift around a lake without any clue about seasonal bass behavior. I seriously doubt that's true. They may not have the many years of experience the older guys do but they obviously know the areas to look at, unless they are just cluelessly scanning a 70,000 acre lake staring at the ramp. I think the "no instincts" argument could be valid in 20 years because at that time there will likely be young fishermen who never fished without FFS, but that time isn't right now.

I don’t think anyone with common sense really believes they would never do well. They do believe their overwhelming success would be diminished however. College and high school fishing has been around for about 14 or 15 years in my area. If the programs of making kids better were the cause of the sudden influx of youth in the winners circles nation wide, wouldn’t that have begun at some rate about 10 years ago and been rather consistent thereafter? The sudden uptick began only a few years ago. As well as the mega bags of giant fish all around the country. I think we have to give the technology some credit. I will give it credit for some of my own success the last few years and not bat an eye.
That being said I don’t think these younger generation anglers are bad anglers at all, they are great anglers. But they’re faster than average success I doubt is coincidental to the fact that the best pair of underwater eyes came out about the same time.
This whole matter brings up some questions we all have to address as tournament anglers. If nothing is to be done, I kind of don’t see the point in many of the rules we already have to be honest. Especially in regards to no Alabama rigs and no aqua view cameras. We also have to question why some things were ever done away with in the first place like live bait? Was that simply to sell lures? Or was it for sporting reasons? Is the purpose of tournament angling solely bringing the biggest bag to the scales? Is there something else to it that we value? Is a sporting aspect? Is it a fair chase aspect?
I think people on both sides that think this doesn’t matter are missing an over arching point that these conundrums will affect the “sport” until everyone decides what to do. Doing nothing but allowing the status quo is an option as well, but it will redefine our actions hereafter. Doing nothing is a choice, however it is not a choice without consequence. I don’t have the answers to those questions but those questions are and will be asked about and will be answered one way or another. Then our path will be changed for better or worse (and that will be a subjective view based on everyone’s previous bias). It’s just fishing but if you are passionate about the competition part of it, it’s things I think you are responsible to at least ask yourself, because it will affect all anglers at every level one way or the other

[Mcjenson]

Yeah if you want the "poor children" to be competitive, better set limits on boats - nothing over a $300 WalMart kayak is allowed.

To be honest I think high school angling out of kayak / jon boat and making it regional rather than 500 boat zoos would be good for the sport. Also would eliminate some of Dad's money / Dad's waypoints factor and would help seeing who is talented at finding their own fish.

[Bass in the grass]

Did that guy just not fish the Toledo Bend event since Fork was the second event of the season?

Ahhh, good catch Mark. Maybe it was the Toledo event that he said it at. He was doing the angler fill in for live mix on the first day, for the whichever event it was. He might have said, “I hadn’t picked up a rod since the last BASS event”. I didn’t know I was going to get Allison fact checked, I was just making a point of how most of the “pros” only fish when they have to.

[Dixie-Raven]

I think he provided some reasons as to how it is hurting the sport:

-reduced participation due to cost of equipment
-reduced tackle sales
both of these affect tax base to fund the supporting agencies etc
-lack of skill needed to find the fish
-affecting the sporting nature of the activity as originally based on as he compared to other sports as an analogy

[bayouXpress]

The ole good at video games / computer not fishing argument.

JT Thompkins put 700 hours on his outboard last year. Tyler Williams spend 36 days straight pre fishing for the classic last winter. Milliken puts in 4-5 14 hour days shooting YouTube videos per week. These guys didn’t get good playing fortnight, they are out working the veterans.

times are different. This is the main part of it. These young cats HAVE the time to devote to it. They were able to fish in high school and through college. Most don't have 9-5's, dont have a family, has money access to afford the latest and greatest. All they have to do is fish. Back in the day that was not an option. When you got out of school you HAD to work to live. Thats what rubs the older gen more than anything i think anyway. The veterans will have their time again, they will put in the time and it won't take them long. This year I think we just seen if they could still battle FFS with their knowledge of fish tendencies in general, but we learned that wont work.