Forward Facing Sonar

[OK_BassBum]

FFS is a tool. Ya still gotta make them bite.
You have to find them in the first place.

AND... THERE IS NO CRYING IN BASS FISHING!

[Mcjenson]

Opposite happened here. A club that is based near Oneida lake went from having 10-15 boat turnouts (typical for local clubs up here) to cancelling events because of low turnout and no coanglers. On the bodies of water they fish (Oneida, 1000 islands, Ontario, Chaumont, Cayuga etc), you don’t even have a prayer of cashing a check without FFS. Past boaters and coanglers admitted they left because of FFS, they realized they’re wasting money entering trying to compete against technology.

Two other local clubs (both of which I belonged to and one I ran from 2019-2022) banned FFS for the 2023 season. they saw an increase in boater and coangler membership for the first time in atleast 6 years. one actually now has a waitlist for coanglers. All new members have said it’s because they don’t allow FFS as the main reason why they joined.

I think both FFS and non-FFS clubs are needed, at least in this area. It’s the haves vs have nots. And that’s fine because there’s opportunity for both. I personally won’t fish any BFL or local open event because I don’t have FFS, it’ll be a complete waste of time for me to even show up and try to compete against the scopers.

I could totally see that being the case for club and club events. Once you get into regional and open tournaments, I think a FFS ban is going to hurt participations.

[ttranger]

Well, as always it just ain't that simple.

If we are going to base all this on costs, then let's not allow Spot Lock TM's. That's another $2 - 4,000 savings. Then we decide no boats over 18 feet and 90 HP. That's another $50 - 80,000. No SI, DI, etc. Another $2,000 or so. One depth finder is enough. Another couple thousand saved. We don't need 30 rods. I can remember when I could only afford 2. That's another $5 - 10,000 saved. Darn sure no $100 swim baits, or Mega Bass Jerk baits.

Partly tongue in cheek, but you get my point. Tournament bass fishing is expensive, period. To some extent, guys that have money have always had an advantage over those who don't. If you can't afford to play, you're at a disadvantage.

I would really like to see a couple trails in my area that would try no FFS. Certainly on lakes that I know well, I'd go. I've fished without it for almost 70 years. Bet I still could. Maybe at club level, they would draw enough to make work. At a profit trail level, I don't see it. Most guys that fish the bigger trails, including me, have it, and aren't giving it up.

You are correct, there is no end to the amount of money you can spend to give yourself an edge. Some people have jobs that allow them to practice a lot more and that is also an advantage. It's really impossible to make things equal unless you have a very strict set of rules and have everyone fish out of the same rig like they did in the older Bassmaster Classics. Frankly, if I was the only guy in a club that had FFS and won everything using it I don't think there is much to brag about. We have a small club of only 12 members and I think two guys currently have it but so far it has not made much of a difference on the waters we fish here.

[HiTorq]

IMHO

It should, and probably in the future will be banned, and not just by the tourneys, it'll get banned by a lot of state DNR's.

Why?
Several states have mentioned they're doing research into the effects it's having on fish populations. I don't think they could care less about tournament guys, (even tho we do have a 8% or so delayed mortality rate), as they are the meat fisherman. How many limits are being caught as compared to prior to FFS? Is it hurting the populations, and if so, whats the solution? Lower limits? Longer lengths? Outlawing FFS? Only time will tell.

As for my case against it?
Is it truly "fair chase" a term used in hunting a lot. IE: is hunting in a high fence area considered "fair chase"? No. Can you use real time cameras for hunting, yes, in some states, but if you want to be included in Boon and Crocket or some other "trophy" book no. Tournaments currently do not allow drones. Neither flying or underwater drones. What is truly the difference? A drone honestly would be more of a fair chase in that if you got it too close to the fish, they would spook off. With a FFS you can sit, 80, 90, 100+ feet away and still see exactly what the fish are doing.
Yes it's true, that you still have to get them to bite, but locating them has always been part of the competition in fishing. You practice, catch the heck out of them, you come back the next day, poof, they're either not there or not eating. However now you don't even wonder if they're there. Drop the FFS in the water, scan a few seconds and you know instantly if they're there. And if not, fire up the motor and go to the next place. You don't even have to pick up a rod.
Several of the younger pros have even mentioned it on Youztube channels that without it they wouldn't be able to compete with the "older crowd". Why? Because they don't have the experience of finding fish without it that the "older guys" do. Now, I'm not saying they aren't good sticks, it's just what a few of them have actually said.

I own it, and use it, because as stated many many times in this and other threads, if you don't you're not going to be as competitive as you can be. Would I like to see it gone. Yes, due to the reasons listed above I don't feel it is truly "Fair Chase".

[Roadhawk]

IMHO

It should, and probably in the future will be banned, and not just by the tourneys, it'll get banned by a lot of state DNR's.

Why?
Several states have mentioned they're doing research into the effects it's having on fish populations. I don't think they could care less about tournament guys, (even tho we do have a 8% or so delayed mortality rate), as they are the meat fisherman. How many limits are being caught as compared to prior to FFS? Is it hurting the populations, and if so, whats the solution? Lower limits? Longer lengths? Outlawing FFS? Only time will tell.

As for my case against it?
Is it truly "fair chase" a term used in hunting a lot. IE: is hunting in a high fence area considered "fair chase"? No. Can you use real time cameras for hunting, yes, in some states, but if you want to be included in Boon and Crocket or some other "trophy" book no. Tournaments currently do not allow drones. Neither flying or underwater drones. What is truly the difference? A drone honestly would be more of a fair chase in that if you got it too close to the fish, they would spook off. With a FFS you can sit, 80, 90, 100+ feet away and still see exactly what the fish are doing.
Yes it's true, that you still have to get them to bite, but locating them has always been part of the competition in fishing. You practice, catch the heck out of them, you come back the next day, poof, they're either not there or not eating. However now you don't even wonder if they're there. Drop the FFS in the water, scan a few seconds and you know instantly if they're there. And if not, fire up the motor and go to the next place. You don't even have to pick up a rod.
Several of the younger pros have even mentioned it on Youztube channels that without it they wouldn't be able to compete with the "older crowd". Why? Because they don't have the experience of finding fish without it that the "older guys" do. Now, I'm not saying they aren't good sticks, it's just what a few of them have actually said.

I own it, and use it, because as stated many many times in this and other threads, if you don't you're not going to be as competitive as you can be. Would I like to see it gone. Yes, due to the reasons listed above I don't feel it is truly "Fair Chase".

Nice Synopsis! I totally agree but will keep learning how to benefit from it because, Tech usually doesn’t backtrack

[Mcjenson]

IMHO

It should, and probably in the future will be banned, and not just by the tourneys, it'll get banned by a lot of state DNR's.

Why?
Several states have mentioned they're doing research into the effects it's having on fish populations. I don't think they could care less about tournament guys, (even tho we do have a 8% or so delayed mortality rate), as they are the meat fisherman. How many limits are being caught as compared to prior to FFS? Is it hurting the populations, and if so, whats the solution? Lower limits? Longer lengths? Outlawing FFS? Only time will tell.

As for my case against it?
Is it truly "fair chase" a term used in hunting a lot. IE: is hunting in a high fence area considered "fair chase"? No. Can you use real time cameras for hunting, yes, in some states, but if you want to be included in Boon and Crocket or some other "trophy" book no. Tournaments currently do not allow drones. Neither flying or underwater drones. What is truly the difference? A drone honestly would be more of a fair chase in that if you got it too close to the fish, they would spook off. With a FFS you can sit, 80, 90, 100+ feet away and still see exactly what the fish are doing.
Yes it's true, that you still have to get them to bite, but locating them has always been part of the competition in fishing. You practice, catch the heck out of them, you come back the next day, poof, they're either not there or not eating. However now you don't even wonder if they're there. Drop the FFS in the water, scan a few seconds and you know instantly if they're there. And if not, fire up the motor and go to the next place. You don't even have to pick up a rod.
Several of the younger pros have even mentioned it on Youztube channels that without it they wouldn't be able to compete with the "older crowd". Why? Because they don't have the experience of finding fish without it that the "older guys" do. Now, I'm not saying they aren't good sticks, it's just what a few of them have actually said.

I own it, and use it, because as stated many many times in this and other threads, if you don't you're not going to be as competitive as you can be. Would I like to see it gone. Yes, due to the reasons listed above I don't feel it is truly "Fair Chase".

I think you are greatly, greatly overestimating the effect of ffs. The vast majority of fisherman don’t even have a boat, let alone FFS. Hell even a decent percentage of serious anglers don’t have ffs yet. The guys sitting on a bucket on shore filleting anything that bites a live minnow have a way bigger effect on populations.

[Mark Perry]

I think you are greatly, greatly overestimating the effect of ffs. The vast majority of fisherman don’t even have a boat, let alone FFS. Hell even a decent percentage of serious anglers don’t have ffs yet. The guys sitting on a bucket on shore filleting anything that bites a live minnow have a way bigger effect on populations.

I am thankful to live in a state with more than 6 bass.

[ECobb91]

I think you are greatly, greatly overestimating the effect of ffs. The vast majority of fisherman don’t even have a boat, let alone FFS. Hell even a decent percentage of serious anglers don’t have ffs yet. The guys sitting on a bucket on shore filleting anything that bites a live minnow have a way bigger effect on populations.

as much as I don’t like FFS, I don’t think it hurts the fisheries as much as people think. My distain is more because I think at some point it just doesn’t become fishing anymore, and FFS is at that breaking point. Heck I was hesitant to buy a flasher for ice fishing But that’s my own prerogative. FFS debates are paralleling lfly fishing, you have the Czech/competition nymphers vs the more traditionalist. Euro nymphing is so productive most don’t consider it “sporting”. Neither is wrong, it’s just a persons opinion on what they think is right.

Like you said earlier, it would impact regional tournaments more, but I’d be surprised if even 10% of the fishing license holders in any given state are strictly bass fishermen. Meaning even less would have FFS. Some can’t afford it, some don’t want it. The biggest detriment to a fishery id assume would be quality of water, vegetation and bait. The small population of bass fisherman do contribute to pressure which can make a lake suck, but doesn’t mean the bass aren’t there. The meat fisherman have more of an impact. But even then, if it was truly an issue the creel limits would reflect that.

[BigFishSteve]

FFS sure wiped out the crappie in Mississippi.

[bassfisher444]

Why not just go fishing? If you don't like FFS then don't use it, how much money someone spends on their boat and what equipment they have on it has never had any affect on what I am doing.

[Mark Perry]

Why not just go fishing? If you don't like FFS then don't use it, how much money someone spends on their boat and what equipment they have on it has never had any affect on what I am doing.

That's far too simple.

[MikeF]

FFS sure wiped out the crappie in Mississippi

.


Common knowledge or do you have a link or two from the DNR or reputable source?

Thanks

[BigFishSteve]

No source. Just more BS. Thousands of boats all over the big four lakes, using fFS and hauling limits of big crappie. And they still producing big, fat, healthy fish.

[schmidte]

Thousands of boats all over the big four lakes, using fFS and hauling limits of big crappie. And they still producing big, fat, healthy fish.

And even more BS....

[188Musky]

.


Common knowledge or do you have a link or two from the DNR or reputable source?

Thanks

That was sarcasm.

The crappies are booming in Missisippi. The only thing FFS has done is make a lot of crappie fishermen happy.

[BassinPaPaw]

I am thankful to live in a state with more than 6 bass.

You should be. You’re lucky to get bites in a day here. That would be a good day

[buckgump]

I hope we never get to the point of taking a picture if a fish wt the boat for weigh in. It ain't broke now but so many are trying to fix it. As fir local tourneys banning FFS that's their prerogative but when attendance slips they will know why. Those complaining about FFS will find something else to complain about and usually are the first ones to bail if the weather gers vad, a team starts winning too often or someone's boat is newer and faster than theirs.

I’m getting ready to buy FFS it is everyone’s prerogative but as long as technology keeps advancing people are going to keep buying it and using it I’m looking forward to getting mine dialing it in and hopefully catching more fish there’s always going to debate as new technology comes about so I say if want it get it if not stay with what you have and be happy

[MikeF]

No source. Just more BS. Thousands of boats all over the big four lakes, using fFS and hauling limits of big crappie. And they still producing big, fat, healthy fish.

Got it.

Missed the sarcasm.

I have a trip planned 2nd week of April and you statement caused a pang of anxiety.

Thanks

[lost-in-salt]

I don't see many people taking the FFS transducer off of their boat to fish a local tournament and then putting it back on afterwards. I know that I wouldn't. Therefore, I don't think these no ffs tournaments will draw many of the main tournament guys. I think the people that don't like ffs or can't afford it will show up. Also, the guys who used to be competitive but no longer are may show up. The results of doing a no ffs trail is that you would pull in a different group of guys that generally are not fishing the current tournaments. They may be successful tournaments in a some areas but overall I do not think they would really be successful. Most of the guys that will fish tournaments have the money for FFS and are already using it to compete. Those guys generally do not want to go backwards.

[BigFishSteve]

MikeF. You will have a fantastic time. A buddy and I went last year and fished 2 days with a guide. I will go back next year. Plenty of youtube content to keep you excited. That single pole sniping is very cool. it was hard to get used to "don't drop on that one.....not big enough".

Start doing your arm/shoulder workouts. Those long poles get heavy.