Interesting Article On The Oil Industry

[novakevlar]

That is not what I hear. All I hear is, we need to stop using/drilling/pumping oil.

Stop listening to lunatics, problem solved!

[yatesville88fan]

This is very interesting, and leaves me kind of confused on where we could begin to solve the problem. On one hand, oil is a global commodity and we have very little control over the shifts in that demand around the world. The oil companies exist to serve their investors, not the interests of the average consumer. We can "drill baby drill" but if we have no more refinery capacity it's like buying more ammo when you don't have the gun. The oil companies don't want to invest a ton of money into new refineries which would take years to recover if they forecast a decline in future demands (this will come from a variety of things like more electric powered tools, vehicles, etc./more people working from home/more internet commerce/which all reduce the need to travel) If the last substantive refinery was built 30 years ago, then this oncoming crisis was not seen or addressed by at least the last five administrations. If you compare the inflation of fuel prices over the past 50 years it isn't much different than the increase in most other things. Oil prices do tend to see greater fluctuations due to global conflicts, catastrophic weather events, etc. so these changes are more noticeable to us. If I look back to my younger days, I see that the average price of a car, home, clothing, food, utilities, fishing tackle, etc. has all increased by a factor of 5x to 10x. The price of gas has fallen roughly into the same range as everything else, at least in my area. In most cases, not all, wages have increased on a commensurate basis, so the truth is that none of these changes should come as a surprise. Everyone wants to get paid more, but not have to pay more for anything, but that is impossible in a free-market system. We all want our IRA's/401K's to prosper, but we don't want those greedy corporations that we are invested into to make too much money. The truth is that most of us are far more privileged and spoiled than any past generation but we let politicians tell us how bad everything is.

No politician has to tell me how bad things are. All you have to do is go to the store and buy food that cost Way more than a few years ago.

[ttranger]

No politician has to tell me how bad things are. All you have to do is go to the store and buy food that cost Way more than a few years ago.

Yes, it does, but can you explain how that is tied into a pandemic that altered the global economy, a disruption of the entire supply-chain system, a war in Eastern Europe that has global implications for the fossil fuel industry, historic wage increases at all levels, and rampant inflation all over the world? You won't believe me, but these are all the factors that contribute to the price of everything you buy. There are much smarter people than anyone here that work around the clock to solve these problems and no one person or political party has all the answers. Our economy is like a giant battleship - it is very powerful but it also turns very slowly.

[lakebouef5]

There have been 7 recessions before this one...since 1973. Every one of them.was preceeded by spikes in the price of oil. Oil is THE most important part of the economic equation. Everything moves on oil. All trains,planes, trucks, vehicles. All food, medicines, parts, finished products, chemicals, lumber, Commodities of every type....all move on oil. So it is critical to have an abundant supply, and lower cost energy like oil. The powers that be want the price inflated, want to reduce the ability of our energy sector to explore for it, lease the areas, and drill, move, and refine it. It is not complicated....for most.

[1Holeshot]

https://www.instituteforenergyresear...united-states/

An article from the CEO of Chevron last year.

"Chevron CEO Mike Wirth does not expect another oil refinery to be built in the United States ever again, due to federal government policies. The last significant refinery built in the United States was in 1976. (A small refinery came online in 2020 in North Dakota). "

If you go read about the refinery in N Dakota they had to go to the Supreme Court to get permits passed and it took a long time to complete.

This is the information I was referring to about no new refinerys being built in the U.S.

I would think the CEO of Chevron would know more about the subject than boneil who called me out when I agreed with lakebouf5 and Jeff Hahn.

[MI bassassassin]

How do we trust anything that anyone says. Right here in this thread are at least 3 false claims, stated as fact about when the last refinery was built. Our world is full of stupid and evil.

Which are you?

[boneil]

I guess we can quibbile on a new reifinery or expansion. Either one requires new construction and both results in increased refining. Why would Exxon buy new land to build another refinery when they already own the acres to build on and the pipelines are already there? Simple economics and sense.

But anyways, atleast we're not debating overall production, importing and exporting. USA is #1 in production and we don't import more than we produce. Glad we got that settled

[MI bassassassin]

I guess we can quibbile on a new reifinery or expansion. Either one requires new construction and both results in increased refining. Why would Exxon buy new land to build another refinery when they already own the acres to build on and the pipelines are already there? Simple economics and sense.

But anyways, atleast we're not debating overall production, importing and exporting. USA is #1 in production and we don't import more than we produce. Glad we got that settled

Even you can see the difference

[wrat]

That article does not explain very much. I have family who work in the oil industry for many decades. In exploration, drilling, oil tools, distribution, refining, shipping. There have been zero refineries built in the last 30 years....the EPA regs now....make it almost impossible to get an air permit. The refinery 30 miles upriver from me, where some family work, is acually two refineries. They built the other refinery after 2000 on the same site, and it goes under the original refinery permits. The refineries in this port are huge, and set up to refine dirty crude, and Canadian Tar crude. This is where it comes by train to be refined, and would be many more barrels and safer if brought by pipeline. We import more oil than we produce, and we also ship out a huge amount of oil and gas...( LNG), liquified natural gas. we have the largest LNG processing plants in the world here. When Russia invaded Ukraine, and that oil and gas was shut off to Europe, the US promised many nations to help them with energy. One thing to keep in mind. The oil companies know the government wants to do away with fossil fuels, and are very careful now in how they will invest going forward..which will bite as sooner than we think. Another thing is the oil we are producing now is from established leases and fields. These fields just don't spring up like water fountains, they are many many years in the planning and investing in pipelines to get the oil out the field into the system. This admin has taken out millions of sq miles of Alaskan waters and Gulf of Mexico areas from being leased. They have taken out millions of sq miles of public Alaskan land and mainland lands to leasing and drilling. This is called the ...squeeze. It will come back to haunt us. It also has not helped that they drew down the strategic oil reserves to the lowest levels since they started the SOR. Instead of having a 20 year plan to get us to more renewables, the government, which runs most things poorly, wants to force it, and get there in a few years. Most believe it would be prudent to go to hybred vehicles first, and then to EV's. but the folks running the various agencies, are more worried about social agendas. What could go wrong?

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
The newest refinery in the United States is the Texas International Terminals 45,000 b/cd refinery in Channelview, Texas, which started operating operating in February 2022.


Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. Some recent examples of large increases include:

• In 2012, Motiva upgraded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, making it the largest U.S. refinery, with a capacity of 626,000 b/cd as of January 1, 2023.
• In 2015, Valero expanded its Corpus Christi, Texas refinery after previous expansions, bringing its capacity as of January 1, 2023, to 290,000 b/cd.

[jbassman87]

Stop listening to lunatics, problem solved!

Which 50% are the lunatics?

[MI bassassassin]

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
The newest refinery in the United States is the Texas International Terminals 45,000 b/cd refinery in Channelview, Texas, which started operating operating in February 2022.


Capacity has also been added to existing refineries through upgrades or new construction. Some recent examples of large increases include:

• In 2012, Motiva upgraded its refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, making it the largest U.S. refinery, with a capacity of 626,000 b/cd as of January 1, 2023.
• In 2015, Valero expanded its Corpus Christi, Texas refinery after previous expansions, bringing its capacity as of January 1, 2023, to 290,000 b/cd.

That truly is pathetic.

[novakevlar]

Which 50% are the lunatics?

Lately it seems anyone opening their mouths in the media gets thrown in that bucket IMO. I think we need to change who gets the mic these days - need more middle-class, common sense opinions broadcast instead of the diarrhea from either extreme. Or elect a bunch of Amish guys for the White House and Congress, we'll we raising barns instead of raising hell!

[lakebouef5]

That truly is pathetic.

There has been an oil refinery at Channelview TX for decades. They are calling new additions to older refineries as new. Yes, that part if the refinery is new, but they are using the original permit to do this. If you do search for original oil refinery in Channelview, TX, it explains they are calling it new. I reckon it depends on who is writing the article, and what they want presented.

[novakevlar]

There has been an oil refinery at Channelview TX for decades. They are calling new additions to older refineries as new. Yes, that part if the refinery is new, but they are using the original permit to do this. If you do search for original oil refinery in Channelview, TX, it explains they are calling it new. I reckon it depends on who is writing the article, and what they want presented.

At the end of the day, does it matter if it's a new or old permit? Capacity is capacity.

Similar to nuke plants, like North Anna here in VA the plant has had an approved permit for a 3rd reactor since 2017 but opted not to build it because nat gas was a much cheaper fuel source. But if we wanted to add capacity we can (and probably should), just on the same site to take advantage of the cooling water and other efficiencies. I don't think a light bulb will care where the juice was made.

[BigFishSteve]

I'm definitely one. I think I have real potential for the other.

[MI bassassassin]

I'm definitely one. I think I have real potential for the other.

Who can argue with that

[GClark519]

This. We could also b producing more oil if we had a more oil friendly leader. Drill baby drill.

The truth is the oil companies had open leases and would not use them. Why? I believe to keep their profits high. If you think a president has any impact on the price of oil I just don’t see how. Oil is traded on the world market.

[MI bassassassin]

The truth is the oil companies had open leases and would not use them. Why? I believe to keep their profits high. If you think a president has any impact on the price of oil I just don’t see how. Oil is traded on the world market.

Yeah no way when a president says he’s going to end fossil fuels would that impact futures. You know just because you have a lease doesn’t mean that it’s speculative to be oil or even a productive oil field? Does any of that make sense?

[Jeff La]

At the end of the day, does it matter if it's a new or old permit? Capacity is capacity.

Similar to nuke plants, like North Anna here in VA the plant has had an approved permit for a 3rd reactor since 2017 but opted not to build it because nat gas was a much cheaper fuel source. But if we wanted to add capacity we can (and probably should), just on the same site to take advantage of the cooling water and other efficiencies. I don't think a light bulb will care where the juice was made.

Old permits are grandfathered in. To get new emissions permits is very hard and expensive. You would have to shut down units to gain carbon emissions for newer units. It's an exchange prosess. That's why carbon capture is on the rise, you can sell carbon credits to new processes.

[Jeff La]

The truth is the oil companies had open leases and would not use them. Why? I believe to keep their profits high. If you think a president has any impact on the price of oil I just don’t see how. Oil is traded on the world market.

Do you really think oil companies would spend thousands to millions of dollars on leases just to keep oil prices up. They can do that without buying leases, just cut production. Taking leases off the market only adds to the price, which our government has recently done.