My 8th grader has received a throwing program to get ready for the season. 3 weeks in, and we are throwing 30-135 feet building to 30-165 feet this week.
By the last week, he is to be throwing 220 feet. That seems pretty far for an 8th grader, and watching him throw 135 feet makes me wonder how we will get to 220 feet.
My question, should an 8th grader be able to throw 220 feet after a 6 week program or is there a chance I have received the wrong program. I know nothing about baseball.
Thanks
Grade shouldn't have anything to do with it....a lot of factors determine throwing distance....
My grandson is an 8 th grader. He played baseball and basketball. I have been trying to get him to work on arm strength. Start out with lighter weights and building up.
Long toss is a great tool esp for pitchers , should do it at least twice a week all winter . Funny fact not a brag but as a 9th grader I threw a Softball 303 ft, end zone to 3 yards deep in the President Kennedy fitness test . Always had a great arm .
If he’s struggling to reach 135’, there’s no way he’ll be throwing 220 in six weeks. But I’m sure that program does not “guarantee” that result, and it really isn’t an end goal related exercise. IMHO and many others it’s a great exercise for baseball. Kind of like weightlifting/powerlifting at that age…….consistency and form should be the focus. Have fun throwing with your kid as you’ll blink and he’ll be in college 10 hours away. Ask me how I know.
2014 920/SHO
I would not say he is struggling yet, but he is having to take a bit of a step to make it. I don't want to push it too hard, as the entire purpose was to get the arm stretched out over a length of time.Originally Posted by txbass1
Long toss is a great tool for developing arm strength. I play long toss with my son 2-3x a week spring-fall. It doesn’t really matter if he can throw it 220 on the fly or not. His arm will get stronger and it will also strengthen his arm and make it healthier come summer time. 220 is just a #, if he is throwing farther and harder after 6 weeks, that means it’s working and just keep after it.
Long toss isn’t only about the distance the ball flies. The steady increase of distance, reaching back to create a longer path for acceleration, and the changing angle of release all work together (among many other factors) to increase velocity. Like training in running, throwing a baseball faster requires training beyond the basic throws a player is required to make in game or practice.
A properly hydrated, warmed up, and stretched arm is not harmed by throwing hard, harder, high, and higher. I played when weights were frowned upon and have 3 baseball kids that all threw hard and had zero arm issues including my oldest who just hit 94 in a pro tryout after 2 years retired. Weights are now the normal in baseball. There are a lot of thoughts on increasing velocity but proper long tossing is and has been a basic part of throwing programs for 35 years with few changes. It works. Check my profile, feel free to message me.
Lanierspotman
2023 Skeeter 21ZXR 2023 250 SHO
Lake Lanier, GA
You throw the distances even if you cannot fly the ball that far. The increased angle at release for farther distances promotes a longer takeaway and stretch that increases the distance you accelerate the ball from the start of your throw until release. A longer throwing arch allows more time for acceleration. More time of acceleration allows for higher velocity.
At 220 feet, if it takes 5 hops and rolls to you, he still needs to make the throws. Nothing wrong with the ball not flying the whole way on the longest distances. One day it will travel that far. A long toss that flies 300 feet will equate to approximately 91-92 mph off the mound.
Lanierspotman
2023 Skeeter 21ZXR 2023 250 SHO
Lake Lanier, GA
Stretch it out to where he can atleast 1 hop it to the partner. Shouldnt have to shag balls running all over the place but one or 2 hops should be ok
Thats interesting Ive been around many guys that could throw it out of a ballpark and they were not close to 91-92. More like mid 80s.
When my son played winter workouts were core strength,foot work, and long toss. Make sure he's having fun.
Make sure he learns proper mechanics on how to throw. One major thing that young kids do not understand sometimes is learn how to throw with your entire body and not just using your arm. LEGS are very important. I would think as a 8th grader that 165' would be standard. Shortstop to first base is over 100 feet. My daughter is very small petite college softball player. She has always had a very strong arm. We started throwing football in the off season just working on mechanics and using her body. We always ended the with long toss. We gradually work to longer distance.
2005 21XD W/ 2005 MERC 250XS BULLET TOTAL PERFORMANCE BOAT!!
If I were You, I'd run over to the nearest J.C. or Univ. and talk to the Pitching Coach.
Is Your 8th grader more Eddie Arcaro or Hulk Hogan?
When I coached in College, each member of the pitching staff had their own programs because as We™ KNOW after copious threads re: herbs/supplements or prescribed poisons Rx.™ Now those searching for the non-positive or 'static' will muse "But they were in College, surely an 8th grader can get on the same program as the other 8th graders?..." not exactly.
Call ahead and then make it a 'bonding experience' any College team worth a shit will be knee deep.. 'Yes, Virginia, even those teams in the Great White North....' Perhaps the Coach will impart an encouraging word and incentivize Your son. If Your 8th grader is 'shy' bring a friend.
Always FUN at TheBallpark
Agree with many others here on this...the 220' thing is just a number. The # itself really means nothing and it's darn sure not related to an age. Kids also develop at drastically different rates depending on a ton of different factors. Long toss is hugely important in developing arm strength, proper throwing motions, etc. Pull downs too. PLEASE make sure whoever is coaching your son is putting him through a proper stretching and loosening routine prior to even picking up a ball every session. If not, find someone else. Also, get him a set of J-Bands and teach him to use them properly. The bands can (and should) be used every day (or at least most days) whether he's throwing that day or not.
For comparison, when I was 13 I could throw a baseball 297'. As a pitcher later on, I topped out at 91 mph. Again, the number means nothing. Best of luck to you and your son. MOST IMPORTANTLY, make sure he's having fun and remains injury free.
Dang!! That is a cannon for a H.S. Freshman!! Could you still do it today? My boys are both grown but our neighbor kid plays H.S. baseball and he's got a REALLY strong arm. I play long toss with him out in the street every once in awhile and my arm is usually only good for about 10 mins of it....lol!!
yeah all I would care about is did he improve. We did simliar training for his arm strength, but he was trying to be a pitcher and increase velocity.
I also agree with the stretching and warm up., Very important for longevity. My son was terrible about doing these and had issues.
Bryan McDonough
2023 Nitro Z21 XL
Nitro Team
My oldest son is a college pitcher. Long toss, towel drills, and weighted balls have always been a staple. From 8th grade to 10th grade his velocity increased - but so did his release point and arm slot due to growth. His 11th- and 12th-grade years saw his velo plateau, but since he'd grown into his body he was able to spot up more consistently. During his senior year he developed a wicked 12-6 bender, as well as a slider that would fall off the plate.
Started working with his pitching coach when he arrived on campus, who immediately changed his arm slot to develop more velo. As a result, he struggled his freshman year. By the end of the spring season, he was completely whipped and struggling mentally. All the while he continued to work with his private coach that he'd had since 10th grade. Will (private coach) played 11 years in the MLB, and while he didn't agree completely with college coach's presentation, he did agree with the intent and the end goal.
More long toss, more towels, more weighted balls - all from the 3/4 arm slot. In October he was sitting at 84 mph with a 4-seam - still had the nasty curve ball, still had a really good slider, and with the new arm slot had developed a very good change-up. Turns out, college coach knows a thing or two as he tested Monday @ 88 mph and had increased velo separation of 12 mph from fast ball to breaking ball.
BTW - this is from the left side of the bump too.
Long toss is 100% the key to pitching development and longevity in the game. Mix in a towel and weighted ball program, focus too on legs and core, and (as Lew says) hydrate. It will come along gradually, then...BAM!
-b-
For what it is worth:
I pitched in college, spent 3 years on a select team during HS in the summer that was coached by Rick Honneycutt, all baseball fans will know who he is.. after coaching our team he went back and was the dodgers pitching coach for several years. I was fortunate to get some great instruction along my way. We also own an indoor training facility as a side hustle and we provide baseball and softball instruction with former pro guys or DI players. We have several pro guys that work out of our facility during their offseason and actually go through the throwing programs in front of us etc...
All that to say, I'm not an expert but I will tell you the long toss is a thing that is slowly going away. Things are changing around mechanics and velo improvements, especially young kids.... Something that is gaining some traction at the HS and collegiate level around developing arm strength is maxing out distance at 120-125ft and more focus is on mechanics and power from the entire body vs "stretching it out and long tossing"
For instance, one guy that is currently working out in our facility was a 6th round pick LHP and he will not push it past 120ft
a lot of tools are out there to help young athletes. Driveline makes soft weighted balls to develop arm strength and velo and you throw those against a wall
8lb slam ball does wonders for velo and strength and you throw it against a wall
Pocket radar is a great tool that can help you track velo gains over time if you are really into it..
I have a 10yr old son (lefty) who is consistently 60-62 on pocket radar, that is after being 54-56 a few months back... We just introduced him to some strength training and weighted ball programs.... No long toss..
Granted, some of his result is just natural aging and growth but for his age his arm is on the high side of ability and speed right now... Puberty is the ultimate equalizer in this game and genetics certainly don't hurt..
Sorry for the long post but hope it helps
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