I know some Protestants Churches have crosses in their church but the cross does not have Jesus crucified on it. I have been told that they don't have a figurine of Jesus on the crosses because Christ is risen. In ALL Catholic Churches we have the crucified Jesus on the cross....to denote the passion and suffering he went thru to save our souls.
As people who practice Christian religions, what would a person find in your church? Or home....
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
Empty cross He is risen!
That in no way diminishes His suffering. It is finished means to us that His sacrifice is complete, He has paid the price for our sins past, present, and future. There is no more sacrifice because none is necessary.
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None in ours unless it is up on the screen as a reminder while taking communion.
John,Originally Posted by drifter106
Perhaps it is your wording that seems to have a connotation that showing Jesus on the cross during His Passion invokes a deeper believe or love, but it is the Cross, which in those days was the most vile condemnation to display anyone's body and the greatest punishment by the Romans, that should invoke within all Christians what God in human form did for us all and the blood shed upon it is the only atonement for your sins, my sins and the sins of the whole world for all times.
In our sanctuary in the alcove behind the alter, we, proudly, display the Christ the King crucifix, and in the narthex we have the crucified Jesus as well as painting of La Pieta, though I have seen places of worship display an empty cross or a cross with a white sheet, as representation of a risen Christ.
Though you say that all catholic churches display the crucified Jesus, I am sure you are referring somewhere on their walls, since in lot of the churches that I have been into, their focus seems to be on a representation of the eucharist directly behind the alter.
I can assure you, that la cathedrale that I grew up attending with my parents as a child back in Sicilia many yrs ago, displayed a very large crucified Jesus directly behind the elevated alter.
Interesting how different congregations (people and churches) depict the crucifix. I can respect any and all take aways from the cross...
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
John
Could you please tell us how you in your believes depict the cross in your personal life? and possibly, your opinion on how your congregation perceives it based on current teachings?
This is not meant in ANY WAY to degrade or judge.
Thank you in advance for your personal sharing.
What's important is whether they preach that Jesus is our savior versus preaching that God is light. These things are not the same.
Jesus is our savior, he is light in the darkness.
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Excellent question Frank...
Its not so much the cross that I focus on but rather his total Passion. Yes the sight of Jesus hanging naked on a cross and his body nothing more than 1 big wound....it just tells me what he went thru and suffered. I really don't know how you people would react to what I am about to tell you but I will share with you what I listen to every day between the hours of 3 to 4.
Background information....back in the middle 30's Jesus appeared to a nun in Poland. Several times...their is a story to be told about all the events but I will make an effort to summarize it. This event is called "DIVINE MERCY".
The first thing that Jesus told her was to "paint a picture of what you see". A picture of the Lord with 2 rays coming from his heart. They denote blood and water.
“The two rays denote Blood and Water. The pale ray stands for the Water which makes souls righteous. The red ray stands for the Blood which is the life of souls.
The nun that Jesus appeared to later became a Saint. Saint Faustina....her spiritual director told her to keep a diary of the events. BIG BOOK.
Anyway, thats what I focus on....his Passion
Many miracles, as with all visions that come from heaven are attributed because of this event. Here are a few quotations that Jesus told the nun. Here are some verbiage that Jesus gave Sister Faustina concerning the end times....please note, 1 event has already happened. No. 8 in the list, the spark that Jesus was talking about was the election of Pope John Paul II.
Quotes of Our Lord to St. Faustina Kowalska,
Divine Mercy seer, concerning the End Times
- “(My daughter) Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fount of My mercy; let them profit from the Blood and Water which gushed forth for them.” Diary, 848 (cf., John 19:34)
- “You will prepare the world for My final coming.” Diary, 429
- “Write this: before I come as the Just Judge, I am coming first as the King of Mercy.” Diary, 83
- “Write: before I come as a just Judge, I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice…” Diary, 1146 (cf., John 10:7: “I am the Door.”)
- “Secretary of My mercy, write, tell souls about this great mercy of Mine, because the awful day, the day of My justice, is near.” Diary, 965
- “Before the Day of Justice I am sending the Day of Mercy.” Diary, 1588
- “…I am prolonging the time of mercy for the sake of sinners. But woe to them if they do not recognize this time of My visitation. My daughter, secretary of My mercy, your duty is not only to write about and proclaim My mercy, but also to beg for this grace for them, so that they too may glorify My mercy.” Diary, 1160
- “I bear a special love for Poland, and if she will be obedient to My will, I will exalt her in might and holiness. From her will come forth the spark that will prepare the world for My final coming.” Diary, 1732
- (Words of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of Mercy, to St. Faustina): “…you have to speak to the world about His great mercy and prepare the world for the Second Coming of Him Who will come, not as a merciful Savior, but as a just Judge. Oh, how terrible is that day! Determined is the day of justice, the day of divine wrath. The angels tremble before it. Speak to souls about this great mercy while it is still the time for granting mercy.” Diary, 635
This prayer varies in length....from 9 minutes to 17 minutes depending on how you want to say it.. This one gives an account of what she saw in the vision and how see felt or reacted to the event.
shorter version with no commentary:
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
Not sure what the official names are but here are pictures. Our building is full of crosses, almost all empty with the exception of the sanctuary. We have a wall in the narthex with dozens of different crosses, all empty, I couldn't find a picture of them
cross1.jpgcross2.jpgcross3.jpgeaster cross.jpgcrosses.jpg
There is Luther's rose also:
LutherSealColor_Big1.jpg
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"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
Scott,
I believe that your crucifix is basically the same that it is in our alcove, which I believe they call it the risen King crucifix used by most Lutheran congregations, and as I have mentioned before is where Christ currently keep me serving with my wife a born Lutheran.
I do recall the different color cloths we also use, since she has altar duty, and I need to bring a ladder for her to get up there.
I find the one picture of the risen Jesus on the cross extraordinary. Have never seen a crucifix like that till now. Carries a lot of meaning in and of itself. You have the cross that he suffered and died on and then you have the risen Jesus. Myself, I find it to be meaningful and pleasing to the eye.
I noticed that there was a picture with a chalice. Do you have communion and how often is it? Do you use water and wine? How about the host....is it unleavened bread?
first time I have seen or heard of Luther's Rose....are you aware of the fact that initially Luther was a Catholic priest?
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
John,
Nice to know of your other interests, however, if you don't mind, let concentrate on the bold text.
His total Passion - what does this mean to you personally?
it just tells me what he went thru and suffered - How do you see the purpose for His suffering?
I will add one thing for your contemplation.
It is finished - what does this mean to you personally with regard to your salvation?
Be well my friend and be safe
Frank
Not replying for Scott, but all you are saying in excellent and spot on when it come to Luther, which was the one that protested against the than current pope in the Protestant Reformation that began in Wittenberg, Germany in 1517, when Martin Luther, a teacher and former Augustinian friar, published a document he called Disputation on the Power of Indulgences, 95 Theses. Later, he helped translate the scriptures into the Germanic language to facilitate it for his people.
We have Holy communion weekly, wine and unleavened bread(wafers). We believe in the real presence within the bread and wine.
Here is one of last week's services if anyone is interested.
Yes, I am aware of Luther's background as a Catholic priest.
"If People Concentrated on the Really Important Things in Life, There'd be a Shortage of Fishing Poles." - Doug Larson
"Peace is not the absence of turmoil but the presence of God" Jo-Ann Thomack
Great question, Drift. I don't see any issue with either, because I haven't seen a verse that says to avoid the one with Jesus on it. I've heard debates about using crosses at all, because they were calling it an idol, but didn't see the connection. Open to having my mind changed :)
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Hard for me to accept that praying in front of a cross would be considered praying to an idol. But thats just me....
Look at what you have in cemeteries....can't find many that don't have a cross. Even without a tombstone you will find the "head marker" made with a cross. For it to be an idol one would think that it denotes a creature (pagan) of sorts.
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
What he had to do, for mankind, was what he went through. The physically suffering as well as mental abuse. Can you just imagine what it was like when he sweat blood in the garden? I have felt betrayal and believe me....when Judas betrayed him in the garden that had to be the ultimate mental anguish.
Me personally....I remember when I was going thru my cancer thing (2014-2017). I was told many things by the staff and I knew it was gonna be tough but Jesus, being who he is, knew EXACTLY what was going to happen and when it would happen. That would be tough to live with....I would think at some point he would have "feelings of despair" for sure.
Before he gave up the spirit he did say "it is finished". That tells me he has completed his task which was to reopen the gates and provide mankind with the opportunity to reach heaven. What more can a "God" do for his creatures? To suffer such a miserable scourging and treatment. Can you put a "gauge" on the amount of love and mercy that Jesus has for man? More than we can contemplate....
One other thing...during his time in the garden he experienced ALL of the sins of mankind. ALL....he had visions of yours and mine sins. I honestly can say that he thought about ever soul, while on the cross, that has every lived. That, in and of itself is incomprehensible in our minds. But with Jesus....anything can be done.
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
John,
You have said well in your closing statement, especially Christ absorbing all the sin of mankind for all times, which He clearly expressed it in His final words.
It is finish, meaning there is no thing we can add or clarify in any of our futile attempt to seek forgiveness apart from seeking the love and grace in the blood of Christ spilled at the cross.
BTW, I believe the mental abuse "feelings of despair" you speak of was from His temporary separation from God the Father, and not from Judas, whom He had chosen though He was well aware of his betrayal being part of the journey leading to the cross.
Thank you so very much for your sharing and brethrenly guidance.
In Christ's love,
Frank.
Sacred Heart of Mary, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death. AMEN
O blood and water which gush forth from the heart of Jesus, have mercy on us
For the sake of his sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us and the whole world
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