ETERNAL SECURITY Part 2

[1Holeshot]

God cannot lie. Titus 1:2

2:in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

Our Redemption is sealed. Ephesians 4:30

30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Salvation-not a reprieve. We are set free from bondage. Romans 10:9-10, 13

9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
13 For " whoever calls on the name of the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Jesus the son of God is the shepherd and we are His sheep. No one including Satan can take His sheep. John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one.

Jesus sacrifice is for all sin. Hebrews 10:12-14

10 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

[GPtimes2]

[mram10us]

All great verses! "...One sacrifice for sins forever..."! Love it

[1Holeshot]

All great verses! "...One sacrifice for sins forever..."! Love it

I like the hymn " My Hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and Righteousness ".

It fits right in with our discussion.

[digthemup]

God cannot lie. Titus 1:2

2: in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

.

Without creating major discord, and keeping the above in mind, what is your thoughts on Ezekiel 33: 1-17?, which I had mentioned in a previous post contemplating this posting, yet there was no reply.

I will post this question only in part 2 but it is applicable to both part1 and 2.

[1Holeshot]

Frank, I will try to provide my understanding of Ezekiel 1-17 to the best of my ability.

Verses 1-9 explain the responsibility of the Watchman on the Wall. It is his Job to warn the people of the impending danger. If he fails to do this he is held accountable for their deaths. If he warns them and they ignore the warning then the Watchman is not held accountable since he fulfilled his responsibility. The rest of the passage verses 12-17 indicate to me that the children of Israel were depending on their works to obtain righteousness. The wicked recognized his sin and turned from it including making restitution and God forgave his previous sin.

I would like for you to give your interpretation of these verses so that I may see if I have missed something.

[digthemup]

Frank, I will try to provide my understanding of Ezekiel 1-17 to the best of my ability.

Verses 1-9 explain the responsibility of the Watchman on the Wall. It is his Job to warn the people of the impending danger. If he fails to do this he is held accountable for their deaths. If he warns them and they ignore the warning then the Watchman is not held accountable since he fulfilled his responsibility. The rest of the passage verses 12-17 indicate to me that the children of Israel were depending on their works to obtain righteousness. The wicked recognized his sin and turned from it including making restitution and God forgave his previous sin.

I would like for you to give your interpretation of these verses so that I may see if I have missed something.

You have the watchman part correct, which it is us proclaiming the word, and using the commandments to bring to the light those how are in darkness in hope they will see the wrong of their ways and turn to the Word and see His light.
The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness - The above is very clear how God sees each one of us as well as any nation, so this is not just addressed to the children of Israel.
nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins - Again, God give clarity that, if we fall away from His ways and statutes, our righteousness will be as dirty rags. -he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.

God continuous, Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live. God shows how His mercy works with the people of Nineveh in the time of Jonah.

I know that some people believe in 'once saved always saved cause God cannot go back on His word', the above clearly shows that it is not God going back on His word, but us returning to our wicked ways; hence removing our names from the book of life.
This is my personal understanding of the matter above, and I have asked in prayer for clarity if otherwise many times.
Amen

[mram10us]

I like the hymn " My Hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and Righteousness ".

It fits right in with our discussion.

Yes sir

[1Holeshot]

You have the watchman part correct, which it is us proclaiming the word, and using the commandments to bring to the light those how are in darkness in hope they will see the wrong of their ways and turn to the Word and see His light.
The righteousness of the righteous man shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall because of it in the day that he turns from his wickedness - The above is very clear how God sees each one of us as well as any nation, so this is not just addressed to the children of Israel.
nor shall the righteous be able to live because of his righteousness in the day that he sins - Again, God give clarity that, if we fall away from His ways and statutes, our righteousness will be as dirty rags. -he trusts in his own righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die.

God continuous, Again, when I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ if he turns from his sin and does what is lawful and right, 15 if the wicked restores the pledge, gives back what he has stolen, and walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. 16 None of his sins which he has committed shall be remembered against him; he has done what is lawful and right; he shall surely live. God shows how His mercy works with the people of Nineveh in the time of Jonah.

I know that some people believe in 'once saved always saved cause God cannot go back on His word', the above clearly shows that it is not God going back on His word, but us returning to our wicked ways; hence removing our names from the book of life.
This is my personal understanding of the matter above, and I have asked in prayer for clarity if otherwise many times.
Amen

Thank you for sharing your convictions about Eternal Security. I appreciate that neither of us want to argue about the subject. I do have one question. If a person who has been saved but sins again, when does he lose his salvation? Is it one sin, several sins, or just certain sins? That question has never been answered to me. It seems that the answer varies based on who is answering the question?

[GPtimes2]

Thank you for sharing your convictions about Eternal Security. I appreciate that neither of us want to argue about the subject. I do have one question. If a person who has been saved but sins again, when does he lose his salvation? Is it one sin, several sins, or just certain sins? That question has never been answered to me. It seems that the answer varies based on who is answering the question?

I am no expert and can't put up bible verses like others, but I think Jesus covers all sins except blasphemy of the holy spirit. If we are Christians and SEALED by the Holy Spirit, I think it is forever. We can cherry pick verses that show you keep or lose your salvation all day long. Some look like contradictions, and both can't be right. When we see what looks like contradictions, we are the ones that have something wrong, not the Bible. Some of the verses above like, "does what is lawful and right", "walks in the statutes of life without committing iniquity" and "he has done what is lawful and right", may apply to people when they were living under the law. I believe we now live under grace and try to do what is right because of the price that was paid by Jesus. The least we can do is try. I believe it is said and may be written that God CAN'T see our sins through the blood of Jesus and are removed as far as the east is from the west. So we can't loose our salvation do to sin because to God, we haven't committed any.

[digthemup]

I do have one question. If a person who has been saved but sins again, when does he lose his salvation? Is it one sin, several sins, or just certain sins? That question has never been answered to me.

Remember, God is talking not about our daily transgressions, which we will always make until we realize that our nature gravitates us toward sin. However, as we realize that we have offended our merciful Father, it is our obligation to earnestly repent and seek forgiveness, not for our previous righteousness but in the blood of Christ at the cross.
On the other hand, those that sin and remain on the wide path of transgression taking them to willful sinning without remorse, they are surely in danger of hell's fire.

Think of this way, righteous man fall from grace into wickedness, and by seeking true repentance obtains God's forgiveness by asking it in the Sacred Blood of the Lamb, he returns back following God's commandments and statutes. How many times can we repeat this?, as Jesus said 70*70 time ( my opinion timeless) while talking with Cephas.

[1Holeshot]

Remember, God is talking not about our daily transgressions, which we will always make until we realize that our nature gravitates us toward sin. However, as we realize that we have offended our merciful Father, it is our obligation to earnestly repent and seek forgiveness, not for our previous righteousness but in the blood of Christ at the cross.
On the other hand, those that sin and remain on the wide path of transgression taking them to willful sinning without remorse, they are surely in danger of hell's fire.

Think of this way, righteous man fall from grace into wickedness, and by seeking true repentance obtains God's forgiveness by asking it in the Sacred Blood of the Lamb, he returns back following God's commandments and statutes. How many times can we repeat this?, as Jesus said 70*70 time ( my opinion timeless) while talking with Cephas.

Thank you GPtimes2 and Dig. Both of you make very good points and I understand Digs most recent post much better than the one about Ezekiel.

Although I posted a 2 Part post about Eternal Security you may be surprised to learn that I still confess my sins, repent, and ask forgiveness on a regular basis ( sometimes several times a day ). You may ask why I would do that based on my beliefs. Hopefully you will give my answer some serious thought to see if it makes sense to you.

My relationship with God was sealed when I accepted my salvation by Grace through Faith. When I sin, I do not change my relationship with Him as I was adopted, grafted, whatever term suits into the family of God. That will not change. I do think that when I sin it affects my fellowship with Him.

When the prodigal son left his father and lived a life of sin, that did not change his relationship with his father. He was still his son. It did effect his fellowship with his father as his father grieved over the son's decision and lifestyle. When the son returned home his father welcomed him with open arms because his son never stopped being his son hence the relationship was still intact.

Hopefully this will help some understand how I can be like the prodigal son who has been restored to a loving Father, who will always be my Heavenly Father.

Standing on the Promises,

Gary

[digthemup]

When the prodigal son left his father and lived a life of sin, that did not change his relationship with his father. He was still his son. It did effect his fellowship with his father as his father grieved over the son's decision and lifestyle. When the son returned home his father welcomed him with open arms because his son never stopped being his son hence the relationship was still intact.

Gary,
What you have stated in the parable of the prodigal son seems to amplified what I said in post #11 last paragraph with scripture.

[1Holeshot]

I am so blessed to have you guys on here to care enough about me to share your thoughts with me as we walk together sharing the Good News with those we meet and with each other.

[bassfishinglawyer]

Thank you for sharing your convictions about Eternal Security. I appreciate that neither of us want to argue about the subject. I do have one question. If a person who has been saved but sins again, when does he lose his salvation? Is it one sin, several sins, or just certain sins? That question has never been answered to me. It seems that the answer varies based on who is answering the question?

Can't give you an answer other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and Ananias and Sapphira. There are a number of other persons mentioned in Paul's writings who appeared to be one of the saints but lost their way.

[1Holeshot]

Can't give you an answer other than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and Ananias and Sapphira. There are a number of other persons mentioned in Paul's writings who appeared to be one of the saints but lost their way.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because they refused to believe that He was a God in the flesh. Because they were well versed in the Old Testament prophecies they of all people should have recognized Him as the Messiah as He performed many miracles in their presence. You are correct that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ( reject Christ as Savior ) is the unpardonable sin. There is no evidence that the hard hearted Pharisees were ever saved so therefore could not lose Salvation they never had.

Ananias and Sapphira were only make believe Christians on the outside. I cannot recall any scripture showing that had accepted God's Grace through Jesus Christ (Salvation ). Only that they lied about what they sold their land for so as to appear that they donated the entire amount. God will not be mocked as they soon learned.

[bassfishinglawyer]

Assumptions either way about A&S - maybe they had, maybe they hadn't.

I've had this conversation many times. Everyone who accepts Christ, obeys His commandments, and professes Christ and then "falls away" either was in the fold and then is no longer or was either never in the fold. Either way he/she is lost at the end of the day. The end of the day is what matters to all of us.

So - stay persistent and endure my friends!

[digthemup]

Assumptions either way about A&S - maybe they had, maybe they hadn't.

I've had this conversation many times. Everyone who accepts Christ, obeys His commandments, and professes Christ and then "falls away" either was in the fold and then is no longer or was either never in the fold. Either way he/she is lost at the end of the day. The end of the day is what matters to all of us.

So - stay persistent and endure my friends!

Very well said and concluded

[digthemup]

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit ( reject Christ as Savior ) is the unpardonable sin.

The example of this sin is the Pharisees, religious leaders, who see the work of Jesus and do not simply reject it for themselves, but actively oppose it. If you are having struggles or doubts – or even denying Jesus for a time – is not an unpardonable sin.
The reason that blasphemy against the Spirit rather than blasphemy against Jesus is in my opinion that the Son of God’s identity is a little obscured and possibly confusing to some, while the work of the Spirit is meant to elevate our souls toward Jesus and clarifying who He is. If one rejects the claims of the Son of God, NOT out of ignorance or misunderstanding, while speaking against the Holy Spirit is a willful decision.

[1Holeshot]

One of the things I can take away from these responses is that it is obvious that most of the respondents love the Lord with all of their heart, mind, and soul. Praise the Lord!