A vision of the Churches future...

[drifter106]

It wasn't but probably 10 years ago that I understood the significance and history about The Prayer to Saint Michael. It is noteworthy at the current time to realize the truth and facts about why mankind is in the position that they are in. Most of us can relate to a time when evil and violence was relatively minor compared to what we now see occurring in our country and world wide. Yes....evil has progressively escalated, especially over the last 20 to 30 years. What I am sharing with the forum will answer many questions as to what is happening.

On October 13th, 1884, during the reign of Pope Leo XIII, 33 years to the same day (how old was Jesus when he died), that the Miracle of the Sun, October 13th 2017 (Fatima) took place. Pope Leo XIII received a chilling vision that left a clear mark on his pontificate and, decades later, became the key to interpreting the many horrors of the 20th century. After celebrating HOLY MASS in one of the Vatican's private chapels, the Holy Father was standing on the steps of the altar when his face suddenly turned gray, and in an instant he collapsed unconscious to the ground. For 5 minutes, he lay motionless. Upon regaining consciousness, the Pope turned to the prelates who had rushed to his side and said... "Oh, what terrible images I have been permitted to see!"

The subject of this apparition was the next hundred years, during which Satan would be allowed free rein over the world. We do not know the details of the Pope's vision, but we do know that he saw the grave moral and spiritual damage that would afflict the world and the Catholic Church in the 20th century.

Deeply shocked and moved by what he saw, the Pope went to his office and composed a prayer to St. Michael the Archangel, which all priests were to recite at the end of Mass. Although the 2nd Vatican Council in the early 60's removed this obligation. You still find it being said in some churches (with our new priest we do say it after Mass now.)

Prayer to Saint Michael:
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls. Amen

Fast forward to our current situation....most of us can categorically say that the evil in our world is every present and progressively getting stronger. Consider what happened after this prayer was suppressed (Vatican Council, 1964). Only a few years later, all kinds of social pathologies and moral distortions had been written into law. Pornography entered the mainstream, birth control use skyrocketed, and abortion became an acceptable procedure. How many crazed people seek out to kill others...innocents. The current war in Europe, our country being torn apart with nothing but evil as a source.

More to the story but this should give you an idea as to the fundamental source of our current situation....

[mram10us]

Why would he pray to Michael? Why not pray to God? I don't understand all the different prayers to people aside from God?

[1Holeshot]

I agree. Why ask Michael to pray for us when we have a direct connection through Jesus?

[bassfishinglawyer]

James 5:16

[drifter106]

Why would he pray to Michael? Why not pray to God? I don't understand all the different prayers to people aside from God?

Praying to Saints

Since the earliest days of the Church, Catholics have always venerated those holy men and women who have gone before us and are now with our Lord in heaven. Unlike most Protestant denominations, Catholics have a clear sense that we who belong to the pilgrim Church on earth are united with the Church triumphant in heaven and the Church undergoing purification in purgatory– we call this union the communion of Saints (cf. Catechism, #957). Together, the Church on earth, in heaven, and in purgatory form one Church, one Mystical Body of Christ.

Praying to St. Michael

As St. Peter once noted "be sober and watch, because your adversary the devil is a roaring lion, goes about seeking whom he may devour" (1Peter 5:8). The evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls, mentioned in the St. Michael prayer have surely been busy, but in asking for help we can fight back against them every day. We need to remember that each time we pray we work to defeat our real enemies, not each other, but rather the devil and his evil spirits.

As St. Paul put it, we fight "not against flesh and blood but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness" (Eph 6:12).

Have any of you every prayed for someone? Yes your praying to God but in essence when we pray to those entities who are in heaven we are asking for help. That help being....praying for their intersession of prayer to God for help or thanksgiving.

[digthemup]

James 5:16

From James 5

The Prayer of Faith

13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.
17 Elijah was a human being, even as we are. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years. 18 Again he prayed, and the heavens gave rain, and the earth produced its crops.
19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

[digthemup]

Praying to Saints

Since the earliest days of the Church, Catholics have always venerated those holy men and women who have gone before us and are now with our Lord in heaven. Unlike most Protestant denominations, Catholics have a clear sense that we who belong to the pilgrim Church on earth are united with the Church triumphant in heaven and the Church undergoing purification in purgatory– we call this union the communion of Saints (cf. Catechism, #957). Together, the Church on earth, in heaven, and in purgatory form one Church, one Mystical Body of Christ.

Praying to St. Michael

As St. Peter once noted "be sober and watch, because your adversary the devil is a roaring lion, goes about seeking whom he may devour" (1Peter 5:8). The evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls, mentioned in the St. Michael prayer have surely been busy, but in asking for help we can fight back against them every day. We need to remember that each time we pray we work to defeat our real enemies, not each other, but rather the devil and his evil spirits.

As St. Paul put it, we fight "not against flesh and blood but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness" (Eph 6:12).

Have any of you every prayed for someone? Yes your praying to God but in essence when we pray to those entities who are in heaven we are asking for help. That help being....praying for their intersession of prayer to God for help or thanksgiving.

To make such a statement, it would be a foolish accusation, since you well know that Catholics don't have 'better sense of clarity', but it is whatever the tradition that has been passed on, with much of it needing correction, yet none have been made out of fear the the 'flock' would be offended if such traditions would change. Further, it would have to be one hack of an explanation by the pope to clarify that there is no such thing as purgatory, but it was made up to fleece the flock during the dark days of the Catholic church.

Christ taught for a very short time, 3 yrs, but I can tell you that if there was any chance that purgatory existed, Christ would have made it a point to tell us about it so that we could be aware of it, especially after the parable of Lazarus and the rich man.
Speaking for myself, when I pray about anything or anyone, I pray directly to God the Father, as Christ did, and onto Christ, as He requested us so to do. I strongly believe that it is up to them by the Holy Spirit to assign the task to the proper entities helping me and guiding me, since I agree with you, "As St. Paul said, we fight "not against flesh and blood but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness".

All praises and glory be onto the Father and Son. Amen

[mram10us]

Praying to Saints

Since the earliest days of the Church, Catholics have always venerated those holy men and women who have gone before us and are now with our Lord in heaven. Unlike most Protestant denominations, Catholics have a clear sense that we who belong to the pilgrim Church on earth are united with the Church triumphant in heaven and the Church undergoing purification in purgatory– we call this union the communion of Saints (cf. Catechism, #957). Together, the Church on earth, in heaven, and in purgatory form one Church, one Mystical Body of Christ.

Praying to St. Michael

As St. Peter once noted "be sober and watch, because your adversary the devil is a roaring lion, goes about seeking whom he may devour" (1Peter 5:8). The evil spirits who roam about the world seeking the ruin of souls, mentioned in the St. Michael prayer have surely been busy, but in asking for help we can fight back against them every day. We need to remember that each time we pray we work to defeat our real enemies, not each other, but rather the devil and his evil spirits.

As St. Paul put it, we fight "not against flesh and blood but against principalities and power, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness" (Eph 6:12).

Have any of you every prayed for someone? Yes your praying to God but in essence when we pray to those entities who are in heaven we are asking for help. That help being....praying for their intersession of prayer to God for help or thanksgiving.

Thanks for the reply, Drift. I was hoping for a Bible verse.
1 timothy 2:5- 5For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
Catholic priests have told me that tradition trumps the Bible. Is that your experience when speaking to other catholics? Thanks

[mram10us]

This verse reminds me of this topic
revelation 22:8-9
8Now I, John, [c]saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things.9Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. [d]For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.”

[1Holeshot]

I do not believe in purgatory, but for those who do; how do souls get into or out of purgatory?

[mram10us]

Drift, I appreciate your knowledge and the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. I think it's very important for us to shed light on the differences between what the Bible teaches by itself and what religions teach with their traditions added to the Bible. No sarcasm meant here.

[digthemup]

Drift, I appreciate your knowledge and the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. I think it's very important for us to shed light on the differences between what the Bible teaches by itself and what religions teach with their traditions added to the Bible. No sarcasm meant here.

You need to remember that even though we believe that we have progressed from the primitive times when religions were used 'as per profit by those that were supposedly saving souls', there is still such existence in many dark corners of religions today.
Many have taken scripture and manipulated it to represent whatever need they may think the current trends or the listening populous at large may be stimulated into giving to their purpose.
Even good preachers have leaned toward being motivational speakers.

Here is the skinny on purgatory, you are told that if your family member dies without last rites or having made a confession to a priest, the individual goes to purgatory. Now, by prayer being made by the church for this individual, the individual would be elevated to heaven where Peter would be waiting at the pearly gates allowing the individual in the presence of God to receive a place in heaven.
Must remember that these prayer are purchased by the family and friends of the individual by donations, so the more prayers, it expedites the transition from purgatory to heaven.

NO Mram, I cannot give you a passage from scripture, since i pray that you already know there is no such thing in it.

Be blessed my brethren on this challenging Memorial Day

[1Holeshot]

Dig, thank you for the explanation about purgatory. I thought it was along the lines of money ( bought prayers of intervention ) but was hoping I was wrong.

My understanding of the Bible is that we spend eternity in Heaven or hell.

It is amazing that people hear the Gospel but choose to serve Satan rather than our Savior Jesus Christ.

Sadly I have some family members who are not saved. I continue to pray that the Holy Spirit will convict them and they will accept Salvation by Grace through Faith.

[digthemup]

Keep praying for them, since the power of earnest prayer before God is more important to Him than any wonderful odor of any sacrifice.

[1Holeshot]

Amen. I have a burden for the lost that goes far beyond my family.

The reality of a never ending torment is unbearable to even contemplate especially for loved ones.

[drifter106]

Here is the skinny on purgatory, you are told that if your family member dies without last rites or having made a confession to a priest, the individual goes to purgatory. Now, by prayer being made by the church for this individual, the individual would be elevated to heaven where Peter would be waiting at the pearly gates allowing the individual in the presence of God to receive a place in heaven.
Must remember that these prayer are purchased by the family and friends of the individual by donations, so the more prayers, it expedites the transition from purgatory to heaven.

NO Mram, I cannot give you a passage from scripture, since i pray that you already know there is no such thing in it.

Be blessed my brethren on this challenging Memorial Day

I HAVE NEVER RECIEVED THE APOSTOLIC BLESSING....this is done on your death bed.

The most gentle way that I can say this....what you wrote is not right. Just to give you and idea....I have received the last rites at least a 1/2 dozen times. Without writing a whole page on the matter I will just sum it up as this. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ON YOUR DEATH BED TO RECIEVE THE LAST RITES.Whenever I had a major surgery, various chemo and radiation done Father John gave me AND my wife Last Rites. By the same token...you just can't walk in and ask a priest to give you Last rites. Let me say this....if your health is bad and your going to have something done to your body where death might be imminent, a priest can give you and your family this sacrament.

Just from what I have read from this forum and some of the responses many of you have some serious misgivings about Purgatory. There is Scripture in the Bible that clearly reinforce the place we call Purgatory. In any given day, there are more people who die and go to Purgatory for a "cleansing" of their souls. Remember, to enter Heaven Jesus in Scripture has said "Every soul will not enter heaven until the last penny is paid". (paraphrasing)

Can explain more later....just dropped in for a few minutes.

[1Holeshot]

🍿

[digthemup]

I HAVE NEVER RECIEVED THE APOSTOLIC BLESSING....this is done on your death bed.

The most gentle way that I can say this....what you wrote is not right. Just to give you and idea....I have received the last rites at least a 1/2 dozen times. Without writing a whole page on the matter I will just sum it up as this. YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE ON YOUR DEATH BED TO RECIEVE THE LAST RITES.Whenever I had a major surgery, various chemo and radiation done Father John gave me AND my wife Last Rites. By the same token...you just can't walk in and ask a priest to give you Last rites. Let me say this....if your health is bad and your going to have something done to your body where death might be imminent, a priest can give you and your family this sacrament.

There is Scripture in the Bible that clearly reinforce the place we call Purgatory. In any given day, there are more people who die and go to Purgatory for a "cleansing" of their souls. Remember, to enter Heaven Jesus in Scripture has said "Every soul will not enter heaven until the last penny is paid". (paraphrasing)

John,
Perhaps your priest likes to practice 'preventive maintenance or preventive strikes', but the catholic church I grew up in, you have better had one foot in the grave and the other on the edge to get last rites. My BIL, Senior Master Chief Nelson LaBeron, who just gave up is post last October now taking up his station before God, was given his last rites right before the machines were turned off, since there was no return from his massive heart attack and coma.

BTW John, I am not trying to put you on the pot, but if you would, please post some passages in scripture where it does talk about purgatory or 'cleansing of the souls', which hopefully is not like cleansing of the colon, that my wife sis last week for her colonoscopy.

[mram10us]

You need to remember that even though we believe that we have progressed from the primitive times when religions were used 'as per profit by those that were supposedly saving souls', there is still such existence in many dark corners of religions today.
Many have taken scripture and manipulated it to represent whatever need they may think the current trends or the listening populous at large may be stimulated into giving to their purpose.
Even good preachers have leaned toward being motivational speakers.

Here is the skinny on purgatory, you are told that if your family member dies without last rites or having made a confession to a priest, the individual goes to purgatory. Now, by prayer being made by the church for this individual, the individual would be elevated to heaven where Peter would be waiting at the pearly gates allowing the individual in the presence of God to receive a place in heaven.
Must remember that these prayer are purchased by the family and friends of the individual by donations, so the more prayers, it expedites the transition from purgatory to heaven.

NO Mram, I cannot give you a passage from scripture, since i pray that you already know there is no such thing in it.

Be blessed my brethren on this challenging Memorial Day

It is a good thing to ask for scriptures :) The idea of purgatory is definitely not scriptural.

[mram10us]

Amen. I have a burden for the lost that goes far beyond my family.

The reality of a never ending torment is unbearable to even contemplate especially for loved ones.

We all need this. Preach!