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  1. #1
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    Understanding what happened.

    My brother called me last evening. He is a retired military officer with 30 years of service. Highly decorated, combat experienced, CW5 Combat Engineer. He was almost in tears about the shooting in Texas. I am a retired College Professor/Police Chief with 40 years of experience. He has 3 grand children the same age as the victims.
    He wants to volunteer to patrol an area grade school. No pay, his own equipment, waivers of liability. He is a warrior and wants to move toward the sound of the guns like all righteous warriors do. We talked a long time about why this approach, although noble, will not work. It has to do, bottom line, with liability. So, our conversation drifted to why these things happen. I told him that my opinion is based on what I have learned, observed, studied and taught throughout the years. As with most complicated questions, it does not come with a quick and simple answer. The school shooting situation has a historical basis. It looks something like this.

    Back in the late 60s and early 70s the psychiatric community came up with the argument that people with mental health disorders have rights to. When the debate, and there was a lot of it, was done State supported mental health facilities started to close down and ambulatory patients were released into communities under new medications and medication guidelines. They were sedated to be easier to control. Proponents pointed to a saving in tax dollars and the development of "inclusion" into our daily vocabulary. It was the beginning of homeless people.

    At the same time this was going on, society decided that 2 incomes were now necessary and moms went to work. Gradually, day care centers were introduced and elementary schools were asked to take on more parental type responsibilities. It's worth noting that at this time schools employed teachers, custodians and a Principal. That's it. The focus was on education. Today, it is not unusual for a school to employ teachers, custodians, a Principal, 2 or 3 vice-principals, a nurse, counselors, dieticians and a kitchen staff, and a school resource officer. Schools now are focused on "Child Development". Slowly and steadily parents abdicated their responsibilities as parents and gave, sometimes forced, the care of their kids on a school. Schools, being bureaucracies, developed protocols and procedures to deal with raising kids. They had to be fair. Since maintaining order was in everybody's best interest the schools diagnosed kids with a variety of disorders that resulted in children being required to take drugs intended to control the child's behavior.

    Society was now facing a generation of children raised by institutions, not family's. In the follow up investigations it is common to find out that the shooters recently stopped taking their medication. When this happens, the person being treated often acts out in rage and frustration. The focus of this anger is the placed that raised, frustrated, and treated them like clients in a protocol instead of like kids.

    So, who is to blame for school shootings? None of us. All of us.

    Guns are not the problem. They are just easy to blame. They do not cause people to be violent and more than forks cause people to be over weight.

    Schools are not the problem. They are trying to deal with situations they are not structured to confront. It's not reasonable to ask them either. They need to stop trying to be all things to all people.

    The answer is simple and complex. Children need to be raised by parents. Two parents is the ideal number. One can do it, but it is really difficult. Every grade school secretary in the country can tell you by the end of the first week of classes which kids come from homes with a parent in them, and homes with both parents working.

    Politicians will now start shouting about our need to "act". An average of 15 gun laws are violated at every school shooting situation. More laws won't stop the carnage.

    The shooters at Columbine planned their assault for months. Lots of their peers knew they qere talking about doing something. Nobody told a responsible adult. The two boys spent a week making bombs in a garage. Not one adult bothered to ask what they were doing.

    I am reminded of an old comic strip called Pogo. He is talking about the problems in his world and tells is friend, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

    Peace.
    Arpy

  2. Member Meadows's Avatar
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    #2
    Very well said, and I agree. I still can't wrap my mind around being an elementary school child and facing that situation.

    Something definitely needs to change, and I think you pointed out what that is. Guns are easy to blame, but they aren't the real issue. It's almost like cancer - we spend billions of dollars on cancer research every year, yet cancer is still killing plenty of people. Let's start looking at the underlying causes of what specifically creates cancer cells (fortified foods, pesticides, hormones, etc.) instead of trying to kill cancer and go from there. Same thing with school shootings.

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    #3
    Best summarization I've read. The same half that enables the beast also punishes the innocent. Bless those children, families, and teachers.

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    #4
    This is a the nail on the head. I am a school teacher as many of you know, and he is 100% spot on. I have 3 types of students.

    1. The kid that never gets attention and love at home so he/she acts out to get it at school, mostly bad.
    2. The kid that gets all the attention at home and has to have it all the time even at school, so they act out to get it. usually bad thing.
    3. The kid that gets the right amount of love and attention and usually comes from a home where both parents are still married or least have a good working co parent situation.

    The part you said about institutions raising kids is spot on as well the double income situation. Both parents are working and many times obsorbed by it and have little engery to meet the demands of raising children, so, turn the video games on and let her rip...
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    #5
    While I agree with most of what you say *(I think some of these video games don't help )* but you are heading in the right direction.
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    #6
    they absolutley don't help. not at all in the slitest bit
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by VA Bass View Post
    they absolutley don't help. not at all in the slitest bit
    Yes but as you said, it's a great baby sitter. Take away the phones or at least check them regularly and you have much of the bulling under control.
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

  8. Problem Child Ckfishin's Avatar
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    #8
    oh, now its video game's fault....
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ckfishin View Post
    oh, now its video game's fault....
    If that's what you got out of this,
    All sheep are eventually led to slaughter

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    #10
    for sure, that's what I am saying, we have let these electronics occupy our children while we deflate from work, and the stress of life. the idle mind is the devil's workshop...
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  11. Member ChuckTR21's Avatar
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by VA Bass View Post
    This is a the nail on the head. I am a school teacher as many of you know, and he is 100% spot on. I have 3 types of students.

    1. The kid that never gets attention and love at home so he/she acts out to get it at school, mostly bad.
    2. The kid that gets all the attention at home and has to have it all the time even at school, so they act out to get it. usually bad thing.
    3. The kid that gets the right amount of love and attention and usually comes from a home where both parents are still married or least have a good working co parent situation.

    The part you said about institutions raising kids is spot on as well the double income situation. Both parents are working and many times obsorbed by it and have little engery to meet the demands of raising children, so, turn the video games on and let her rip...
    Thank you for your service in teaching. In reality, teachers are becoming on the same level as first responders and should be recognized for the work they do that has little to do with actual education. I agree 100% with the OP and your assessment. These are the sources of the problem, not a gun. Self absorbed parents who are too interested with their life to mold the life of their child are a major source of the problems you outlined. Most of us here give our boats more attention than many kids get and the reality is their parents should not be parents.

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  12. Problem Child Ckfishin's Avatar
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff La View Post
    If that's what you got out of this,

    What? The OP makes an amazing post that states it's not just one issue then people start blaming video games... How are you trying to spin it to me pointing that out not getting anything out of this.
    Last edited by Ckfishin; 05-25-2022 at 10:29 AM.
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  13. Member
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Ckfishin View Post
    What? The OP makes an amazing post that stats it's not just one issue then people start blaming video games... How are you trying to spin it to me pointing that out not getting anything out of this.
    It's not just about them playing video games but about spending family times together.
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    #14
    Another problem is whenever someone talks about making it harder to get access to military grade weapons or semi/fully automatic weapons, the gun lobby scares regular, law abiding gun owners to fear that they are coming for ALL of their guns, even the ones used for hunting. Other than it being fun to , why do civilians need high power, high round military grade weapons?

  15. Problem Child Ckfishin's Avatar
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by paul40269 View Post
    Another problem is whenever someone talks about making it harder to get access to military grade weapons or semi/fully automatic weapons, the gun lobby scares regular, law abiding gun owners to fear that they are coming for ALL of their guns. Other than it being fun, why do civilians need high power, high round military grade weapons?

    Define military grade? I mean the military uses pistols so basically everything is military grade?
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Arpy View Post
    My brother called me last evening. He is a retired military officer with 30 years of service. Highly decorated, combat experienced, CW5 Combat Engineer. He was almost in tears about the shooting in Texas. I am a retired College Professor/Police Chief with 40 years of experience. He has 3 grand children the same age as the victims.
    He wants to volunteer to patrol an area grade school. No pay, his own equipment, waivers of liability. He is a warrior and wants to move toward the sound of the guns like all righteous warriors do. We talked a long time about why this approach, although noble, will not work. It has to do, bottom line, with liability. So, our conversation drifted to why these things happen. I told him that my opinion is based on what I have learned, observed, studied and taught throughout the years. As with most complicated questions, it does not come with a quick and simple answer. The school shooting situation has a historical basis. It looks something like this.

    Back in the late 60s and early 70s the psychiatric community came up with the argument that people with mental health disorders have rights to. When the debate, and there was a lot of it, was done State supported mental health facilities started to close down and ambulatory patients were released into communities under new medications and medication guidelines. They were sedated to be easier to control. Proponents pointed to a saving in tax dollars and the development of "inclusion" into our daily vocabulary. It was the beginning of homeless people.

    At the same time this was going on, society decided that 2 incomes were now necessary and moms went to work. Gradually, day care centers were introduced and elementary schools were asked to take on more parental type responsibilities. It's worth noting that at this time schools employed teachers, custodians and a Principal. That's it. The focus was on education. Today, it is not unusual for a school to employ teachers, custodians, a Principal, 2 or 3 vice-principals, a nurse, counselors, dieticians and a kitchen staff, and a school resource officer. Schools now are focused on "Child Development". Slowly and steadily parents abdicated their responsibilities as parents and gave, sometimes forced, the care of their kids on a school. Schools, being bureaucracies, developed protocols and procedures to deal with raising kids. They had to be fair. Since maintaining order was in everybody's best interest the schools diagnosed kids with a variety of disorders that resulted in children being required to take drugs intended to control the child's behavior.

    Society was now facing a generation of children raised by institutions, not family's. In the follow up investigations it is common to find out that the shooters recently stopped taking their medication. When this happens, the person being treated often acts out in rage and frustration. The focus of this anger is the placed that raised, frustrated, and treated them like clients in a protocol instead of like kids.

    So, who is to blame for school shootings? None of us. All of us.

    Guns are not the problem. They are just easy to blame. They do not cause people to be violent and more than forks cause people to be over weight.

    Schools are not the problem. They are trying to deal with situations they are not structured to confront. It's not reasonable to ask them either. They need to stop trying to be all things to all people.

    The answer is simple and complex. Children need to be raised by parents. Two parents is the ideal number. One can do it, but it is really difficult. Every grade school secretary in the country can tell you by the end of the first week of classes which kids come from homes with a parent in them, and homes with both parents working.

    Politicians will now start shouting about our need to "act". An average of 15 gun laws are violated at every school shooting situation. More laws won't stop the carnage.

    The shooters at Columbine planned their assault for months. Lots of their peers knew they qere talking about doing something. Nobody told a responsible adult. The two boys spent a week making bombs in a garage. Not one adult bothered to ask what they were doing.

    I am reminded of an old comic strip called Pogo. He is talking about the problems in his world and tells is friend, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

    Peace.
    Arpy
    Best summary ever Arpy, a hard truth many don't want to discuss. The shooting is a miserable tragedy, but it's a symptom of our national societal disease, which you perfectly described.

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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by paul40269 View Post
    Another problem is whenever someone talks about making it harder to get access to military grade weapons or semi/fully automatic weapons, the gun lobby scares regular, law abiding gun owners to fear that they are coming for ALL of their guns, even the ones used for hunting. Other than it being fun to , why do civilians need high power, high round military grade weapons?

    I'm curious as to what is "military grade" weapons?
    "We all have it commin kid....." Will Munny

  18. Dumbass bilgerat's Avatar
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    #18
    We failed as a society. We chase the $$$ and live beyond our means so we think the answer to everything is to throw money at it. Easier to do that than actually spend time with your kids. Put ‘em in daycare for 12 hours a day starting at infancy and that morphs into travel sports and endless “activities” that are just another way for you not to spend time with them. Then when the shit hits the fan and Junior didn’t turn out as planned, the accusations and finger pointing begin … along with the “We spent all this money and moved to the right neighborhood/best schools blah blah blah” …. Our priorities are screwed up and have been for a long time now. Kids are reflections of their environment, with a few exceptions kids aren’t born ****ed up, they absorb that behavior from home life. “Video games” LOL …
    Ranting incoherently

  19. Member
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ckfishin View Post
    What? The OP makes an amazing post that stats it's not just one issue then people start blaming video games... How are you trying to spin it to me pointing that out not getting anything out of this.
    I did not blame the video games, it is a tool that has been used to keep kids occupied so the parent can do other things and or just deflate after work and not be bothered. The root here is the lack of connection with the parent and child, the result is the video game becomes the connection the child wants/needs. Kids have to make a connection, something that nurture them, and sadly cell phones, video games, etc have been falsleynurturing for a long time. Have you watched a kid on a video game? They are in a complete trance and the rest of the world is blocked out. That's not good. Again, it's not a video game that is causing the mass school shootings, it is the disconnected between parent and child along with mental illness...An in tune parent most times would know there is something wrong in the child, but a parent this is disconnected will not.
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Arpy View Post
    My brother called me last evening. He is a retired military officer with 30 years of service. Highly decorated, combat experienced, CW5 Combat Engineer. He was almost in tears about the shooting in Texas. I am a retired College Professor/Police Chief with 40 years of experience. He has 3 grand children the same age as the victims.
    He wants to volunteer to patrol an area grade school. No pay, his own equipment, waivers of liability. He is a warrior and wants to move toward the sound of the guns like all righteous warriors do. We talked a long time about why this approach, although noble, will not work. It has to do, bottom line, with liability. So, our conversation drifted to why these things happen. I told him that my opinion is based on what I have learned, observed, studied and taught throughout the years. As with most complicated questions, it does not come with a quick and simple answer. The school shooting situation has a historical basis. It looks something like this.

    Back in the late 60s and early 70s the psychiatric community came up with the argument that people with mental health disorders have rights to. When the debate, and there was a lot of it, was done State supported mental health facilities started to close down and ambulatory patients were released into communities under new medications and medication guidelines. They were sedated to be easier to control. Proponents pointed to a saving in tax dollars and the development of "inclusion" into our daily vocabulary. It was the beginning of homeless people.

    At the same time this was going on, society decided that 2 incomes were now necessary and moms went to work. Gradually, day care centers were introduced and elementary schools were asked to take on more parental type responsibilities. It's worth noting that at this time schools employed teachers, custodians and a Principal. That's it. The focus was on education. Today, it is not unusual for a school to employ teachers, custodians, a Principal, 2 or 3 vice-principals, a nurse, counselors, dieticians and a kitchen staff, and a school resource officer. Schools now are focused on "Child Development". Slowly and steadily parents abdicated their responsibilities as parents and gave, sometimes forced, the care of their kids on a school. Schools, being bureaucracies, developed protocols and procedures to deal with raising kids. They had to be fair. Since maintaining order was in everybody's best interest the schools diagnosed kids with a variety of disorders that resulted in children being required to take drugs intended to control the child's behavior.

    Society was now facing a generation of children raised by institutions, not family's. In the follow up investigations it is common to find out that the shooters recently stopped taking their medication. When this happens, the person being treated often acts out in rage and frustration. The focus of this anger is the placed that raised, frustrated, and treated them like clients in a protocol instead of like kids.

    So, who is to blame for school shootings? None of us. All of us.

    Guns are not the problem. They are just easy to blame. They do not cause people to be violent and more than forks cause people to be over weight.

    Schools are not the problem. They are trying to deal with situations they are not structured to confront. It's not reasonable to ask them either. They need to stop trying to be all things to all people.

    The answer is simple and complex. Children need to be raised by parents. Two parents is the ideal number. One can do it, but it is really difficult. Every grade school secretary in the country can tell you by the end of the first week of classes which kids come from homes with a parent in them, and homes with both parents working.

    Politicians will now start shouting about our need to "act". An average of 15 gun laws are violated at every school shooting situation. More laws won't stop the carnage.

    The shooters at Columbine planned their assault for months. Lots of their peers knew they qere talking about doing something. Nobody told a responsible adult. The two boys spent a week making bombs in a garage. Not one adult bothered to ask what they were doing.

    I am reminded of an old comic strip called Pogo. He is talking about the problems in his world and tells is friend, "We have met the enemy, and he is us."

    Peace.
    Arpy
    +1

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