Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654

    Did God alter his plans- as dispensationalist claim?


  2. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    1,651
    #2
    Thru 12 minutes, he has listed crackpots that haven't read, "No man knows the day or the hour"...
    He keeps saying the "end has come".
    matthew 13:40, As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world
    Have the tares been gathered and burned up?

    2012 Ranger Z521 2023 Mercury 250 Pro XS

  3. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    Thru 12 minutes, he has listed crackpots that haven't read, "No man knows the day or the hour"...
    He keeps saying the "end has come".
    matthew 13:40, As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world
    Have the tares been gathered and burned up?


    1. If no man knows the day or the hour as you have stated. Why did these (crackpots) men know the hour?

    1 John 2:18 " Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

    And the day?

    Romans 13:12 "The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

    I assume from your statement, you do not believe the bible is inspired, but these men just pretended to know (crackpots)?

    Yes, the tares have been gathered and burned up.
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 11:38 AM.

  4. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    1,651
    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    1. If no man knows the day or the hour as you have stated. Why did these (crackpots) men know the hour?

    1 John 2:18 " Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

    And the day?

    Romans 13:12 "The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

    I assume from your statement, you do not believe the bible is inspired, but these men just pretended to know (crackpots)?

    Yes, the tares have been gathered and burned up.
    1. Crackpots, meaning those that wrote books about the second coming that he mentioned. They were obviously wrong.
    2. Not sure of your translation, but the kjv says "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
    3. Don't think the Bible is inspired? Where do you get that? I think too many try to find hidden meaning, like those that made these prophesies that didn't come to pass. If Jesus says only the Father knows, then why even guess?
    2012 Ranger Z521 2023 Mercury 250 Pro XS

  5. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    1. Crackpots, meaning those that wrote books about the second coming that he mentioned. They were obviously wrong.
    2. Not sure of your translation, but the kjv says "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
    3. Don't think the Bible is inspired? Where do you get that? I think too many try to find hidden meaning, like those that made these prophesies that didn't come to pass. If Jesus says only the Father knows, then why even guess?

    I think the King James crew need to get their translators on the same page LOL

    The New King James crew says this:


    18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[a] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.


  6. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #6
    Bye the way, when in doubt, it is a good Idea to check the Youngs Literal Translation. It is a translation that is a tougher read because they do their best to translate the Greek to English, without interpretational bias.

    18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many -- whence we know that it is the last hour;

  7. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #7
    This should help as well. It might tell you why the KJV has been changed many times

    1 John 2:18

    18 3813 [e]
    18 Paidia
    18 Παιδία ,
    18 Little children
    18 N-VNP
    2078 [e]
    eschatē
    ἐσχάτη
    [the] last
    Adj-NFS
    5610 [e]
    hōra
    ὥρα
    hour
    N-NFS
    1510 [e]
    estin
    ἐστίν ,
    it is
    V-PIA-3S
    2532 [e]
    kai
    καὶ
    and
    Conj
    2531 [e]
    kathōs
    καθὼς
    as
    Adv
    191 [e]
    ēkousate
    ἠκούσατε
    you have heard
    V-AIA-2P
    3754 [e]
    hoti
    ὅτι
    that
    Conj
    500 [e]
    antichristos
    ἀντίχριστος
    antichrist
    N-NMS
    2064 [e]
    erchetai
    ἔρχεται ,
    is coming
    V-PIM/P-3S
    2532 [e]
    kai
    καὶ
    even
    Conj
    3568 [e]
    nyn
    νῦν
    now
    Adv
    500 [e]
    antichristoi
    ἀντίχριστοι
    antichrists
    N-NMP
    4183 [e]
    polloi
    πολλοὶ
    many
    Adj-NMP
    1096 [e]
    gegonasin
    γεγόνασιν ,
    have arisen
    V-RIA-3P
    3606 [e]
    hothen
    ὅθεν
    whereby
    Conj
    1097 [e]
    ginōskomen
    γινώσκομεν
    we know
    V-PIA-1P
    3754 [e]
    hoti
    ὅτι
    that
    Conj
    2078 [e]
    eschatē
    ἐσχάτη
    [the] last
    Adj-NFS
    5610 [e]
    hōra
    ὥρα
    hour
    N-NFS
    1510 [e]
    estin
    ἐστίν .
    it is
    V-PIA-3S



  8. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    1. Crackpots, meaning those that wrote books about the second coming that he mentioned. They were obviously wrong.
    2. Not sure of your translation, but the kjv says "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
    3. Don't think the Bible is inspired? Where do you get that? I think too many try to find hidden meaning, like those that made these prophesies that didn't come to pass. If Jesus says only the Father knows, then why even guess?

    Because two authors of the New Testament wrote

    1. It is the last hour
    2. The day is at hand


    Are you saying the authors were incorrect? If you are saying that, that would deny inspiration.

  9. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    1. Crackpots, meaning those that wrote books about the second coming that he mentioned. They were obviously wrong.
    2. Not sure of your translation, but the kjv says "Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
    3. Don't think the Bible is inspired? Where do you get that? I think too many try to find hidden meaning, like those that made these prophesies that didn't come to pass. If Jesus says only the Father knows, then why even guess?
    If you wanted to choose the translation as "time", I do not think the Lexicons are on your side of your improper interpretation.

    But here we go,

    Strong's Concordance
    hóra: a time or period, an hour
    Original Word: ὥρα, ας, ἡ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    Transliteration: hóra
    Phonetic Spelling: (ho'-rah)
    Definition: a time or period, an hour
    Usage: (a) a definite space of time, a season, (b) an hour, (c) the particular time for anything.HELPS Word-studies
    5610 hṓra – properly, an hour; (figuratively) a finite "season"; limited time or opportunity to reach a goal (fulfill a purpose); a divinely pre-set time-period; a limited period to accomplish the Lord's specific purpose, i.e. "the hour" in which specific characteristics prevail exactly like that for a limited time.
    NAS Exhaustive Concordance
    Word Origin
    a prim. word
    Definition
    a time or period, an hour
    NASB Translation
    hour (84), hours (3), late* (2), moment (3), once* (3), short* (1), time (6), while (4).Thayer's Greek Lexicon
    STRONGS NT 5610: ὥρα

    ὥρα, ὥρας, , from Homer down, the Sept. for עֵת and in Daniel for שָׁעָה;1. a certain definite time or season fixed by natural law and returning with the revolving year; of the seasons of the year, spring, summer, autumn, winter, as ὥρα τοῦ θέρους, πρώϊμος καί ὄψιμος, χειμερια, etc.; often in the Greek writings (cf. Liddell and Scott, under A. I. 1 c., and on the inherent force of the word especially Schmidt, chapter 44 § 6f).
    2. the daytime (bounded by the rising and the setting of the sun), a day: ὥρα παρῆλθεν, Matthew 14:15; ἤδη ὥρας πολλῆς γενομένης (or γινομένης) (A. V. when the day was now far spent), Mark 6:35 (see πολύς, c. (but note that in the example from Polybius there cited πολλῆς ὥρας means early)); ὀψίας (ὀψέ T Tr marginal reading WH text) ἤδη οὔσης τῆς ὥρας (WH marginal reading brackets τῆς ὥρας), Mark 11:11 (ὀψέ τῆς ὥρας, Polybius 3, 83, 7; τῆς ὥρας ἐγιγνετο ὀψέ, Demosthenes, p. 541, 28).
    3. a twelfth part of the daytime, an hour (the twelve hours of the day are reckoned from the rising to the setting of the sun, John 11:9 (cf. BB. DD., under the word Hour; Riehm's HWB, under the word Uhr)): Matthew 24:36; Matthew 25:13; Mark 13:32; Mark 15:25, 33; Luke 22:59; Luke 23:44; John 1:39(40); ; with τῆς ἡμέρας added, Acts 2:15; of the hours of the night, Luke 12:39; Luke 22:59; with τῆς νυκτός added, Acts 16:33; Acts 23:23; dative ὥρα, in stating the time when (Winers Grammar, § 31, 9; Buttmann, § 133, 26): Matthew 24:44; Mark 15:34; Luke 12:39f; preceded by ἐν, Matthew 24:50; John 4:52; Acts 16:33; accusative to specify when (Winers Grammar, § 32, 6; Buttmann, § 131, 11): John 4:52; Acts 10:3; 1 Corinthians 15:30; Revelation 3:3; also to express duration (Winers Grammar, and Buttmann's Grammar, at the passages cited): Matthew 20:12 (cf. ποιέω, I. 1 a. at the end); ; Mark 14:37; preceded by prepositions: ἀπό, Matthew 27:45; Acts 23:23; ἕως, Matthew 27:45; μέχρι, Acts 10:30; περί with the accusative Acts 10:9, improperly used for a very short time: μία ὥρα, Revelation 18:10 (Rec. ἐν, WH marginal reading accusative), 17 (16), 19; πρός ὥραν (A. V. for a season), John 5:35; 2 Corinthians 7:8; Galatians 2:5 (here A. V. for an hour); Philemon 1:15; πρός καιρόν ὥρας (for a short season), 1 Thessalonians 2:17.
    4. any definite time, point of time, moment: Matthew 26:45; more precisely defined — by a genitive of the thing, Luke 1:10; Luke 14:17; Revelation 3:10; Revelation 14:7, 15; by a genitive of the person the fit or opportune time for one, Luke 22:53; John 2:4; by a pronoun or an adjective: ἄρτι ὥρα (A. V. this present hour), 1 Corinthians 4:11; ἐσχάτῃ ὥρα, the last hour i. e. the end of this age and very near the return of Christ from heaven (see ἔσχατος, 1, p. 253b), 1 John 2:18 (cf. Westcott at the passage); αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρα, that very hour, Luke 2:38 (here A. V. (not R. V.) that instant); ; Acts 16:18; Acts 22:13; ἐν αὐτῇ τῇ ὥρα, in that very hour, Luke 7:21 (R G L text); ; ἐν τῇ ὥρα ἐκείνῃ, Matthew 8:13; ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ὥρα, Matthew 10:19 (Lachmann brackets the clause); Mark 13:11; (Luke 7:21 L marginal reading T Tr WH); Revelation 11:13; ἀπ' ἐκείνης τῆς ὥρας, John 19:27; ἀπό τῆς ὥρας ἐκείνης, Matthew 9:22; Matthew 15:28; Matthew 17:18; by a conjunction: ὥρα ὅτε, John 4:21, 23; John 5:25'; ; ἵνα (see ἵνα, II. 2 d.), John 12:23; John 13:1; John 16:2, 32; by καί and a finite verb, Matthew 26:45; by a relative pronoun ὥρα ἐν , John 5:28; by the addition of an accusative with an infinitive Romans 13:11 (οὔπω ὥρα συναχθῆναι τά κτήνη, Genesis 29:7; see examples in the Greek writings, from Aeschylus down, in Passow, under the word, vol. ii., p. 2620a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, B. I. 3); so the Latintempus est, Cicero, Tusc. 1, 41, 99; ad Attic 10, 8). Owing to the context ὥρα sometimes denotes the fatal hour, the hour of death: Matthew 26:45; Mark 14:35, 41; John 12:27; John 16:4 (here L Tr WH read ὥρα αὐτῶν i. e. the time when these predictions are fulfilled); ; ὥρα τίνος, 'one's hour', i. e. the time when one must undergo the destiny appointed him by God: so of Christ, John 7:30; John 8:20, cf. John 16:21. (On the omission of the word see ἐξαυτῆς (ἀφ' ἧς? cf., p. 58b top), Winers Grammar, § 64, 5, under the word; Buttmann, 82 (71); on the omission of the article with it (e. g. 1 John 2:18), see Winers Grammar, § 19, under the word).


    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    day, hour, instant, seasonApparently a primary word; an "hour" (literally or figuratively) -- day, hour, instant, season, X short, (even-)tide, (high) time.
    Forms and Transliterations
    ωρα ώρα ὥρα ὥρᾳ ωραι ώραι ὧραί ωραιώθης ωραιώθησαν ωραν ώραν ὥραν ωρας ώρας ὥρας ωρων ωρών ὡρῶν hora hōra hṓra horai hôraí hōrai hṓrāi hō̂raí horan hōran hṓran horas hōras hṓras horon horôn hōrōn hōrō̂n ora ōra orai ōrai oran ōran oras ōras oron ōrōn

  10. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #10
    Surely the readers here on the faith forum know the difference between translation and interpretation when it comes to reading our bible.

  11. Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    223
    #11
    “But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.””
    **James‬ *4:6‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/jas.4.6.NKJV

  12. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    “But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble.””
    **James‬ *4:6‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/jas.4.6.NKJV

    Hey hart, thanks for the participation.

    Can you deal with the text rather than use of the bible to attack someone's character?

    I am almost positive I have pride; I am probably guilty of that along with a lot of other stuff, but that still does not deal with the text in question.


    If it is prideful, to provide Lexicons as evidence ...................... there are many scholars who are full of pride.

    It sounds real spiritual but .........................
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 09:57 PM.

  13. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    “Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself.”
    **Philippians‬ *2:3‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/php.2.3.NKJV
    My ambition is this: (probably some pride involved :( ) Is that the Word of God is proclaimed and understood. They crucified our Lord because they did not understand the Old Testament.

    Now here you are trying to call into question my motives and character using the bible............ sad.

    Are you without pride? I am here to confess before all of my brethren I am guilty of it all.
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 09:15 PM.

  14. Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    223
    #14
    “But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
    **II Timothy‬ *2:23-24‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.2.23-24.NKJV

  15. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    “But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
    **II Timothy‬ *2:23-24‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.2.23-24.NKJV
    I do not think it foolish or ignorant to properly/rightly divide the Word of God, do you?
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 09:57 PM.

  16. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #16
    Lets deal with the text now, rather than use the bible to bash someone's character or motives.
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 09:58 PM.

  17. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Palestine TX
    Posts
    4,654
    #17
    Hart, using your argument and using your logic..................... why did Paul (and others) enter the synagogues of their day expounding/exegeting the OT scriptures?

    Couldn't the Jews of the first century just tell Paul he was being argumentative and using foolish disputes and Paul had selfish ambitions and he was full of pride to discuss the things he brought up...........?

    Oh, they did................. and then put him to death.
    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-15-2022 at 09:58 PM.

  18. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    1,651
    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    Lets deal with the text now, rather than use the bible to bash someone's character or motives.
    When i ask you pointed questions you never give a simple answer. You deflect and bring up something else. I will read other versions rather than just the kjv, niv and esv. Maybe you can make shorter posts that are more to the point to limit confusion?
    2012 Ranger Z521 2023 Mercury 250 Pro XS

  19. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    1,651
    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Hart View Post
    “But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,”
    **II Timothy‬ *2:23-24‬ *NKJV‬‬

    https://bible.com/bible/114/2ti.2.23-24.NKJV
    i might be guilty of this one, brother :) I'll work on it and you feel free to hold me accountable
    2012 Ranger Z521 2023 Mercury 250 Pro XS

  20. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Nampa, Idaho
    Posts
    1,651
    #20
    Dozer,
    Regarding romans 13:12, are you saying that is talking about the end of the world or the second coming? Also, when i said crackpots, i was talking about the guys that wrote books thru the 1980s and on saying when Jesus was coming back. I think you misunderstood and thought i meant preterists. I didn't
    2012 Ranger Z521 2023 Mercury 250 Pro XS

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast