Gen1 Helix 12 Chirp SI GPS interface with New Ulterra Questions

[rather be lucky]

Hi guys, my first time on this forum.. I was reccomended here by my friend JAK1 to whom I bring all my boat issues. He says there are some real Humminbird/Minn Kota Gurus here.. I know he's one.. and he suggested I check this site out... so here I am with questions I have and haven't even thought of yet.

So a little history of what I have and what I plan to do. I'm a walleye and crappie fisherman and do what ever is needed to catch eyes, my most effective way is trolling cranks on a full reel leadcore. My set up .. 2003 Lund 1700 Angler Tiller, F80 with power steering. T8 kicker, 80#Vantage, and 65# Minnkota bow auto pilot. All in the 2003 vintage. Kicker kicks, AP steers. Works great. I have an old Lowrance in the front hooked via universal sonar. (which will be taken out and eventually replaced with a Mega HB)

My wife and I are getting older .. she doesn't want to do the trolling motor stow and deploy, and frankly I or the other old farts I fish with don't want to either. (I'm rather comfortable sitting in the back with all things at my reach.) Full disclosure.. I want that Ulterra.

I have the HB Gen1 Helix 12 Chirp SI GPS. I want to get a new Ulterra 60" 24v (80#) Mega DI/SI I-Pilot Link and hook them together. My thoughts here are to get all the stuff on the TM, ready for future Graph upgrades.. HB no longer supports my Helix, if it goes down, a Mega would be next.

Questions ..

Do I need DI and SI or just DI? and Why?
The HB site says the Gen 1 Helix is comatable the Ulterra but it doesn't say HOW compatible just says Ethernet adapter required. Does that mean I need a longer adapter? (tiller boat) 24v is there.
With the Gen1 and the Mega Ulterra are hooked up, what will I be able to see on my screen? 2D? Any DI or SI? Will the images be as they are on a Gen1 or nothing?
Will I have all the features of the I-Pilot link to control the Ulterra via the Ethernet? I-Pilot operation but more features?
Will follow contour and offset work with sonar effectively turned off to the Ulterra? Do these features even use sonar? Are these features using the GPS map only?
If I were to put a smaller Mega HB in the front and leave my Gen1 in the back, could they be linked so the Gen1 is showing what the Mega is seeing? Then switch it back and forth when desired?

Short version.. I want to replace the 2003 MK AP with a new MK Ulterra 60" 24v (80#) Mega DI/SI I-Pilot Link. It seems like all I should have to do is run an Ethernet adapter from the Ulterra to the Gen1. I won't have any sonar in the front. Don't use it much currently... but the oppertunites are endless... I expect the I-Pilot Link to have all the same TM operational fuctions whether or not the transducer is hooked up.. Effectively.. sonar turned off. Then will look for a Mega HB replacing my LCX27.. I don't upgrade often ;-). Then see what needs to happen.... shhhhhh 360???

Thanks, in advance,
Swede

[Wayne P.]

Minnkota has three types of transducers built-in:
US2= 83/200 kHz 2D sonar only
MDI= HW CHIRP 2D sonar and 455/800/1200 kHz Down Imaging
MSI= HW CHIRP 2D sonar, 455/800/1200 kHz Down Imaging and 455/800/1200 kHz Side Imaging

A first generation Helix 12 SI unit does 83/200 kHz 2D sonar and 455/800 kHz Side Imaging with composite DI views created by blending the two SI pulses. NOT compatible with a Minnkota built-in MDI or MSI transducer. You would have to attach the unit's SI transducer to the bottom of an Ulterra and deal with managing the transducer cable if you want more than 2D sonar only.

iPilot LINK is an Ethernet connection that connects to the Helix's Ethernet port and adds GPS functions from iPilot to the display.
Follow-the-Contour works ONLY with HD Lakemaster mapping, Auto Chart mapping, and Auto Chart Live mapping.

To have any MEGA which means the MEGA HERTZ frequency for Side Imaging and Down Imaging, you would need at least a second generation Helix SI or DI model in the 9, 10, and 12 size.
To have MEGA and HW CHIRP to match a Minnkota MSI transducer you would need a third or fourth generation Helix 8, 9, 10, 12, or 15 SI model. A Helix 7 DI or SI model in the third or fourth generation can use the Minnkota MDI transducer as well as the others listed.

You can connect a newer unit and LINK to your Helix 12 SI to share waypoints/Temp/GPS with an Ethernet Switch. Sonar sharing is somewhat limited. Network Sharing: Humminbird to Humminbird – Humminbird (johnsonoutdoors.com)

iPilot LINK has zero to do with any sonar functions==iPilot is GPS. Soo it makes no difference if a transducer is connected or not.

There is no MEGA 360 that will mount to an Ulterra. Some have tried using a third party mount but the stow/deploy mechanism cannot handle the added weight.

[bobcoy]

I think there may only be one guy here that can handle all your questions. Not me, but maybe start with a clarification for me. You don't currently use sonar on the trolling motor, but plan to in the near future? Your Helix one should be able to run all your ipilot link functions but with no sonar. That is a big loss, but "doable" if you can use an HD map in your Helix. Follow the contour is a function of the map. You will have to use other sonar to determine depth and set the water level. Difficult but "doable". I will also ask if your outlay for the trolling motor a brick wall. I would suggest you get a Helix( preferably a Gen 4) and get full use of your system even if you have to go with a smallish Helix. Good luck with your new stuff as soon as you can with all the problems we have with labor and supply chain issues. Bob

He found You!

[rather be lucky]

Wayne, Thanks for the reply. Let me try to paraphrase as I understand it.

My gen1 Helix is not compatible with the new Ulterra for DI and SI, but will do 2D if linked with the Ethernet adapter. Correct? Will the Ethernet connection have any negetive effects to the gen1 sonar functions when switched on or off?

My plan was to get the Ulterra with all the available options so new HB Mega units would fit right in and to upgrade the front and or rear locator as funds allow. So if I install the Ulterra with the Ethernet adapter and switch hooked to the gen1 I will be able to get 2D from the Ulterra to the gen1 when switched off and on as needed. Correct?

All fuctions of the I-pilot link will work from the HD Lakemaster map in the gen1 and GPS. Correct? Will the location of the gen1 in the boat (about 12' away from the TM) make a difference to the follow contour function or any other I-pilot function?

I don't currently use the front locator much. When trolling the current AP is used to steer the boat.. I control it with the corded foot pedal by hand in the back of the boat to adjust the course while intently watching the map and the green heading line. I've always had a tiller boat and used the backtrolling method mostly with the vantage while jigging and livebait fishing. I don't know if I will change my seating spot. My goal is to have the power stow and deploy, the I-pilot functions. I don't want to limit myself by not getting the correct TM for my needs.. especially by not getting all I can now in the Ulterra and the need for newer locators with all the new tech they have and compatibility. It looks like the options are US-2, DI, or DI/SI for an additioal $200.

Looks like, in a nut shell, the new ulterra will "work" for my immeadiate needs but will hasten my need for a new front Mega HB. Correct? With a new Mega on the front, would the I pilot link allow the map in the gen1 to controll the follow contour and other map/GPS functions?

Thanks, Swede

[Wayne P.]

The newer units with HW CHIRP can be dumbed down to use the US2 by selecting Generic 83/200 kHz in the Connected Transducer menu.

Ethernet has nothing to do with the transducer setting. Ethernet is for sharing data between units and or Ethernet accessories.

iPilot is GPS and what is used to Follow-the-Contour with Lakemaster HD mapping. The display to use that function can be anywhere. LINK is the Ethernet connection that allows that function. It has zero to do with sonar, you don't even need any transducer connected for Follow-the-Contour to work or with one connected, you can turn Sonar OFF and iPilot will still work.
Whether or not you connect the display to any transducer is irrelevant. What is relevant is the trolling motor has to be deployed to use iPilot/LINK. It is turned off when stowed.

[rather be lucky]

Thanks again for the quick response. I reread all this again and I think I have it now.. My gen1 will not work for sonar of any kind with the built in transducers in the Ulterra DI/SI. So if I get the Ulterra, I will be replacing my old AP. No sonar, my interm gain is auto deploy and stow, and all I-pilot link features. That is not quite what I was hopping for but that is why I asked the questions. Is this correct?

I will have to get a new compatible Mega HB to get the most out of the Ulterra. The 12" gen1 in the back works independently. I can upgrade it later.. or maybe not, will have to see how it works. At the current prices it may take a while to complete but I will still be able to do what I do now just easier. At least not having to go to the front to deploy and stow and shut the AP off is a great start. Once a new HB is hooked to the Ulterra I will have the Mega DI/SI and that my be enough..not perfect but workable.

Do you see any major flaws in this tentative plan?

Thanks, Swede

[Wayne P.]

Thanks again for the quick response. I reread all this again and I think I have it now.. My gen1 will not work for sonar of any kind with the built in transducers in the Ulterra DI/SI. So if I get the Ulterra, I will be replacing my old AP. No sonar, my interm gain is auto deploy and stow, and all I-pilot link features. That is not quite what I was hopping for but that is why I asked the questions. Is this correct?

I will have to get a new compatible Mega HB to get the most out of the Ulterra. The 12" gen1 in the back works independently. I can upgrade it later.. or maybe not, will have to see how it works. At the current prices it may take a while to complete but I will still be able to do what I do now just easier. At least not having to go to the front to deploy and stow and shut the AP off is a great start. Once a new HB is hooked to the Ulterra I will have the Mega DI/SI and that my be enough..not perfect but workable.

Do you see any major flaws in this tentative plan?

Thanks, Swede

Yep pretty much == time and money.

[rather be lucky]

That's for sure.. You can fix anything if you throw enough cash at it!

Thanks Again. Swede