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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    Ahh, excellent point you just brought up, since after 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.' there is no day description nor 'evening and morning statement'.
    I believe that 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.' is an individual occurrence, which could have potentially happened thousands of yrs prior to God replenishing the earth when He looked upon it and 'the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.' at which point in His mercy reestablishes everything, perhaps even one day at the time. - 'and the 'evening and the morning' now become applicable.

    I suppose that if this does not make sense to you, we will have to agree to disagree on our opinions. Amen
    So, day 1 aside, thoughts on the other two questions?
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    So, day 1 aside, thoughts on the other two questions?
    Sorry, thought that I was clear, but I will go further. God declares to us that He reestablishes everything and each time it is declared that it is the 'evening and the morning', and that which He made it was good, which we cannot say that in our world today. God declares that '11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    However, as we know the world that God created was violated by the actions of Adam and Eve, and the punishment and curse was cast upon the earth as we know it today.

    God is perfect all of the time, even when dealing with a vile world that which He created has become.

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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    Sorry, thought that I was clear, but I will go further. God declares to us that He reestablishes everything and each time it is declared that it is the 'evening and the morning', and that which He made it was good, which we cannot say that in our world today. God declares that '11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    However, as we know the world that God created was violated by the actions of Adam and Eve, and the punishment and curse was cast upon the earth as we know it today.

    God is perfect all of the time, even when dealing with a vile world that which He created has become.
    I should have been more clear. I was referring to each day in the Bible fitting the evolution model. It clearly doesn't. Each "kind" of plant, animal, etc was created in one day, fully formed and has limits as to how much they can adapt(after their own kind). Again, No one argues adaptions. What is argued is the lack of evidence for a Darwinian tree
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    I should have been more clear. I was referring to each day in the Bible fitting the evolution model. It clearly doesn't. Each "kind" of plant, animal, etc was created in one day, fully formed and has limits as to how much they can adapt(after their own kind). Again, No one argues adaptions. What is argued is the lack of evidence for a Darwinian tree
    I am glad to know that you have no argument with adaptation, though if God gave us free will, why would He limit as to how much anything in His creation could change to sustain their survival?
    Think how horrific we as a society think of cannibalisms, yet we are aware that there has been instance where such has been resorted out of pure necessity to survive another day.

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    I am glad to know that you have no argument with adaptation, though if God gave us free will, why would He limit as to how much anything in His creation could change to sustain their survival?
    Think how horrific we as a society think of cannibalisms, yet we are aware that there has been instance where such has been resorted out of pure necessity to survive another day.
    Adaptation is accepted by all scientists due to observations, so that is an easy one :) not sure what the limits of free will would have to do with genetic changes needed to make it all the way to humans from a single cell or a rat type creature 60 mya. With dna being 4 dimensional and proteins being just one piece of the puzzle, it makes the universe without a creator harder to believe than with one. Darwin and Lyell had no clue how complex life was. Heck, Darwin was a geologist
    edit: to answer why God would limit, because He said in genesis that each "kind" would be limited
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    #26
    Interesting discussion. The term "after his kind" is interpreted to mean fixed species of animals. It can also be interpreted to emphasize the great variety of kinds of plants and animals (rather than fixed species) via the word "mn" in ancient Hebrew. See: https://biologos.org/articles/the-me...-old-testament.

    What continues to amaze me is how complicated God made the universe. Every time we figure something out, it leads to multiple new complexities. Try reading about the new findings on black holes......

    A good logic question is "why would God make the universe so complex, but then make creation so simple?"

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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by TexomaDan View Post
    Interesting discussion. The term "after his kind" is interpreted to mean fixed species of animals. It can also be interpreted to emphasize the great variety of kinds of plants and animals (rather than fixed species) via the word "mn" in ancient Hebrew. See: https://biologos.org/articles/the-me...-old-testament.

    What continues to amaze me is how complicated God made the universe. Every time we figure something out, it leads to multiple new complexities. Try reading about the new findings on black holes......

    A good logic question is "why would God make the universe so complex, but then make creation so simple?"
    just to clarify and not argue with you, but the term "species" is not comparable to "kind". The biblical kind is akin to the cat group, dog group, bear group. If an animal can breed with another, they are in the same kind (wolf and poodle). I agree with the complexity. The more we discover, the more probability of God
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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TexomaDan View Post
    Interesting discussion. The term "after his kind" is interpreted to mean fixed species of animals. It can also be interpreted to emphasize the great variety of kinds of plants and animals (rather than fixed species) via the word "mn" in ancient Hebrew. See: https://biologos.org/articles/the-me...-old-testament.

    What continues to amaze me is how complicated God made the universe. Every time we figure something out, it leads to multiple new complexities. Try reading about the new findings on black holes......

    A good logic question is "why would God make the universe so complex, but then make creation so simple?"
    Couldn't agree with you more, excellent point!

    Science can't discover anything that threatens my belief in god because I know he's the root creator of it all regardless. I just shake my head when people start denying science so that God fits their little box.
    Last edited by HoustonG; 01-06-2022 at 09:28 AM.
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by TexomaDan View Post
    Interesting discussion. The term "after his kind" is interpreted to mean fixed species of animals. It can also be interpreted to emphasize the great variety of kinds of plants and animals (rather than fixed species) via the word "mn" in ancient Hebrew. See: https://biologos.org/articles/the-me...-old-testament.

    What continues to amaze me is how complicated God made the universe. Every time we figure something out, it leads to multiple new complexities. Try reading about the new findings on black holes......

    A good logic question is "why would God make the universe so complex, but then make creation so simple?"
    Excellent observation with a great intriguing question.

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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    just to clarify and not argue with you, but the term "species" is not comparable to "kind". The biblical kind is akin to the cat group, dog group, bear group. If an animal can breed with another, they are in the same kind (wolf and poodle). I agree with the complexity. The more we discover, the more probability of God
    So if you cross a wolf with a poodle, would you get a wolfoodle, and charge 5K a pup? or just a mutt?
    My niece paid 2K for a goldendoodle, same species, but in my book still a mutt.

    Harmonizing Genesis 1 with science is exciting stuff and proves how far ahead of the game God really was - far far ahead of Darwin, Einstein and all the others.

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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by digthemup View Post
    So if you cross a wolf with a poodle, would you get a wolfoodle, and charge 5K a pup? or just a mutt?
    My niece paid 2K for a goldendoodle, same species, but in my book still a mutt.

    Harmonizing Genesis 1 with science is exciting stuff and proves how far ahead of the game God really was - far far ahead of Darwin, Einstein and all the others.
    Well said.
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    #32
    So how does Noah fit it with Genesis and science harmonizing? Shouldn't the flood event reset everything to day 1 for evolutionary purposes?
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    So how does Noah fit it with Genesis and science harmonizing? Shouldn't the flood event reset everything to day 1 for evolutionary purposes?
    I guess there wouldn't be a reset if all the animal species were preserved on the boat, right? There's also the age old debate that says if all the different races came from Noah and his family, that in itself would be evidence of evolution. You'll hear lots of word gymnastics trying to talk that point away.
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    #34
    A local flood.............................

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    #35
    Just a random article I googled for reference.

    Hill.vp (csun.edu)

    Last edited by godsdozer; 01-06-2022 at 10:50 PM.

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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    A local flood.............................
    How would a local flood destroy all life on earth?
    genesis 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by rds_nc View Post
    So how does Noah fit it with Genesis and science harmonizing? Shouldn't the flood event reset everything to day 1 for evolutionary purposes?
    They got off the ark in pairs and reproduced after their own kinds? Just need two wolfs to turn into the entire canidae family as we know it
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by godsdozer View Post
    Just a random article I googled for reference.

    Hill.vp (csun.edu)

    I've never heard the local flood theory. I could see where people of that time might define the "whole earth" as the area where they lived and what they could see. You have to consider the geographical knowledge of the men who wrote the words we read.
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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by HoustonG View Post
    I've never heard the local flood theory. I could see where people of that time might define the "whole earth" as the area where they lived and what they could see. You have to consider the geographical knowledge of the men who wrote the words we read.

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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by mram10us View Post
    They got off the ark in pairs and reproduced after their own kinds? Just need two wolfs to turn into the entire canidae family as we know it
    After they got off the ark, how do you suppose the kangaroo, and koalas ended up in Australia?

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