Any advice on how to get the front deck off a tin boat? (Princecraft)

[DanR]

Hi guys,

I was wondering if anyone had some advice on how I would go about removing/lifting the front deck of my 2005 Princecraft boat. Now the main floor of the boat has screws that I can see in the carpet so that's easy to remove, but for the front casting deck, I don't see any screws at all. Could it be that the screws for that section are under the carpet? I am hoping to remove the deck so that I can get out the outside wall of the large livewell so I can install an aerator to it. Right now the only water circulation on the livewell is to simply pump in fresh water, but I would like to have a aerator with a timer installed as well.

My front deck looks similar to this: http://2016.princecraft.com/Attachme...ILanguageID=EN

Except instead of that single large lid you see at the bow, I have two small ones side by side to access the livewell.

I've never lifted a deck like this so really not sure how to go about it without destroying the deck or carpet in the process. If I can get this removed, I would also take advantage to run some conduit to the front for non-trolling motor power wires.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated, thanks! I can post some actual photos of the front deck if that would be helpful.

[Crappie Bob]

They probably carpeted over the screws for cosmetics. I would try and contact the boat manufacture or the dealer where they are sold, they might be able to answer since they might have done warranty on something under there..Good luck

[Slicefixer]

IF the front deck is wood it'll be screwed down. However, it could be aluminum and welded to the substructure/frame and/or the hull itself. That's what you need to figure out and it should take 10 seconds. Once you've figured that out it'll be pretty easy to formulate a gameplan.

[njpaulc]

I used one of the pumps that you put in the livewell that recircuates water. It doesn't take up much room and doesn't heat up the water, in fact I ran it all night during a night tournament in August, and the water in the livewell was a lot cooler than the water in the lake. There's no plumbing involved, but the wiring is a PITA. I had heard that Florite has gudes for updateing livewells.

[Real L]

I have worked on numerous Princecraft boats and on all of them the deck was wood. I have not worked on a front deck, but a lot on the back decks, to route wires for transducers. Most of the time, the screws are about a inch or less from the side of the boat, buried in the carpet. You can feel them out with you finger. They are philipps screws. If the carpet in turned under the deck I would be surprised if if was put in after the wood was screwed. You just have to be patient and search for all the screws and there are many. But again, if the carpet was replaced, you never know.

Is the main floor carpeted or is it vinyl ?

[DanR]

Wow thanks for all the quick replies guys, really appreciate it! Here's some feedback on your comments:

They probably carpeted over the screws for cosmetics. I would try and contact the boat manufacture or the dealer where they are sold, they might be able to answer since they might have done warranty on something under there..Good luck

This is what I am thinking, I fired off an email to Princecraft last night so we'll see what they say and after that I'll hit up a couple of marine shops.

IF the front deck is wood it'll be screwed down. However, it could be aluminum and welded to the substructure/frame and/or the hull itself. That's what you need to figure out and it should take 10 seconds. Once you've figured that out it'll be pretty easy to formulate a gameplan.

It's a wood deck with aluminum compartment lids, I just can't find any screws anywhere holding it down.

I used one of the pumps that you put in the livewell that recircuates water. It doesn't take up much room and doesn't heat up the water, in fact I ran it all night during a night tournament in August, and the water in the livewell was a lot cooler than the water in the lake. There's no plumbing involved, but the wiring is a PITA. I had heard that Florite has gudes for updateing livewells.

Yeah this what I am thinking of doing but I need to get in there to pass the wiring. Another option I was thinking was making a small access hole and covering it with some kind of bilge access piece. I would prefer NOT to add holes, but worse comes to worse, I can do this. Now the current livewell fill pump does act like an aerator, so I am wondering if I can just add a timer like this: https://store.flow-rite.com/livewell-pro-timer.html?

I have worked on numerous Princecraft boats and on all of them the deck was wood. I have not worked on a front deck, but a lot on the back decks, to route wires for transducers. Most of the time, the screws are about a inch or less from the side of the boat, buried in the carpet. You can feel them out with you finger. They are philipps screws. If the carpet in turned under the deck I would be surprised if if was put in after the wood was screwed. You just have to be patient and search for all the screws and there are many. But again, if the carpet was replaced, you never know.

Is the main floor carpeted or is it vinyl ?

Hi Real, yes everything including the main floor and casting deck is carpeted, and like you said, on the main floor you can easily find the screw heads in the carpeting but this is definitely not the case for the casting deck, there are no screw heads hidden in the carpet. The carpet is original. When I bought the boat about 5 years ago it was succession and the older gentleman that bought it from new used it maybe 3 times a year. When I got it, it looked like it just came out of the showroom.

Thanks again for all your feedback guys!

[Slicefixer]

Hmm....honestly, that's what I figured. So you suppose you could find the screws through the carpet with a magnet?

Otherwise, other than tapping, finding, marking, and then pulling em ONE at a time, you'll have to cut the carpet. If you can locate a few of them in a row going at right angles in the corners, enough so you can pull the deck up slightly, you can slowly hone in on em. I have done exactly that before, but, you risk pulling and stripping. That's not really that big of a deal as you just replace the deck using larger diameter screws.....that's what I did. I also used screws with a broader thread and they went down better than the original screws and the decks are MUCH easier to pull. Man, other than that you'll have to pull the carpet.....which I'm sure you want to avoid...

I would think a strong enough magnet or one of those stud finders. (Never used one) might work.

[Real L]

Dan

I know that Princecraft boats use glue in some of their boats but I don't know exactly when and I don't think they do anymore. If you look at the Princecraft site, now they use vinyl flooring and you can see where they put the screws on the front decks and maybe that could help.

[Panama]

I pulled the deck on my Cherokee below. I would have never gotten it off without removing the carpet. There was a lot of screws and glue and the Phillips heads were worn to the point that some had to be cut and some removed with vise grips. I was removing the carpet anyway though because I was doing a recarpet and adding some wires while at it.

[FrancoCialone]

Can't help you with your deck as I have a Lund, but I can tell you what I did, I added a recirculation pump to my livewell and it works great. I bought it at Bass Pro Shops and it is called the Marine Metal Super Saver Aerator Kit, SKU # 275571. I use it for "out of the water" weigh-ins with my bass club. I would call Princecraft technical services for more information about the construction of your deck.

[DanR]

Hey guys, just a little update... I've been speaking with the folks at Princecraft and they actually thought for my year that there should be external screws on the casting deck and sent me an image that shows where the screws are, but in my case there are definitely no screws hidden in the carpet so looks like they are underneath. As my carpets are still in fantastic shape, I have no intentions of tearing that up so I'm just going to leave it be. What I will do is install a new aerator pump that replaces my current intake pump and replace the screen filter and then I will swap out my toggle switch with a 3 way switch and connect a livewell pump timer to just constantly pump in fresh water throughout the day.

I am assuming that most people that use a recirculation pump to re-oxygenate the livewell water is because they have to activate a pump to empty the livewell and it's not an overflow style gravity empty well like mine. (Mine has a threaded tube that screws in to a bottom drain - if water in the livewell gets too high, the top of the tube acts as an overflow and then you unscrew the tube to drain the well) So with that in mind, I am assuming that just bringing in fresh water via the timer is just as good, if not better than recirculating the livewell water. Does that make sense?

Thanks again guys :)

[Real L]

About the Princecraft livewell systems, there are two levels. The basic one is a pump to fill the livewell and, in the livewell, a piece of plastic pipe that you screw in and that serves to keep the water level high enough for the fish and as overflow when the pump is working. To empty the livewell you unscrew the piece of pipe and the water flows out. This system is good when the boat is going slowly or at rest.

The second system uses two pumps, one to fill the livewell and one ( with a timer) to recirculate the water in the livewell. You can use the recirculating system at speed when changing places as it doesn't not have to pump water from the lake. To empty the livewell you have a switch that you turn to empty. The livewell empties by gravity and does not use the pump.

As for the screws, I'm sure they are there but with time the carpet moved a bit and coverred the holes.

With one of my Princecraft boats I tried using an aerator pump that goes in the livewell but I didn't work out. The pump kept moving in the livewell because of the fish.

[DanR]

About the Princecraft livewell systems, there are two levels. The basic one is a pump to fill the livewell and, in the livewell, a piece of plastic pipe that you screw in and that serves to keep the water level high enough for the fish and as overflow when the pump is working. To empty the livewell you unscrew the piece of pipe and the water flows out. This system is good when the boat is going slowly or at rest.

The second system uses two pumps, one to fill the livewell and one ( with a timer) to recirculate the water in the livewell. You can use the recirculating system at speed when changing places as it doesn't not have to pump water from the lake. To empty the livewell you have a switch that you turn to empty. The livewell empties by gravity and does not use the pump.

As for the screws, I'm sure they are there but with time the carpet moved a bit and coverred the holes.

With one of my Princecraft boats I tried using an aerator pump that goes in the livewell but I didn't work out. The pump keep moving in the livewell because of the fish.

Yeah I have the basic one, so I am going to install a timer on the basic system so it can always circulate fresh water. I don't do big long runs generally so I think that system will be fine. I promise you, there are no screws. I looked this morning for 20 minutes and found none. They are easily visible on the main floor but there are zero on the casting deck :(

[njpaulc]

Hey guys, just a little update... I've been speaking with the folks at Princecraft and they actually thought for my year that there should be external screws on the casting deck and sent me an image that shows where the screws are, but in my case there are definitely no screws hidden in the carpet so looks like they are underneath. As my carpets are still in fantastic shape, I have no intentions of tearing that up so I'm just going to leave it be. What I will do is install a new aerator pump that replaces my current intake pump and replace the screen filter and then I will swap out my toggle switch with a 3 way switch and connect a livewell pump timer to just constantly pump in fresh water throughout the day.

I am assuming that most people that use a recirculation pump to re-oxygenate the livewell water is because they have to activate a pump to empty the livewell and it's not an overflow style gravity empty well like mine. (Mine has a threaded tube that screws in to a bottom drain - if water in the livewell gets too high, the top of the tube acts as an overflow and then you unscrew the tube to drain the well) So with that in mind, I am assuming that just bringing in fresh water via the timer is just as good, if not better than recirculating the livewell water. Does that make sense?

Thanks again guys :)

It's not the same. If you're fishing in hot weather and you've added ice you just replace cold water with hot water, If you've added livewell treatment you just replace treated water with un treated water. It's better than nothing but recirculation adds oxygen, and cools the water throught evaporation.

[DanR]

It's not the same. If you're fishing in hot weather and you've added ice you just replace cold water with hot water, If you've added livewell treatment you just replace treated water with un treated water. It's better than nothing but recirculation adds oxygen, and cools the water throught evaporation.

I don't add ice but wouldn't adding the cooler river water to the warming well water keep the water cool at the river/lake temperature? I did think of the treated water, but there's not much I can do other than add a bit more every few hours. Ideally I would of course like to have a recirculation cycle if I could get that dang floor up without destroying the carpets. I'm not worried about O2 levels as the nozzle will re-oxygenate the water each time it runs.

I'll keep looking for a viable recirculate option but so far this is about as far as I can go. Either way I have to replace the main pump and filter and add a timer, I can always add the second pump if I can get the floor out.

Btw are there livewell nozzles that are better than others in terms of oxygenating the water? I have the standard Attwood nozzle like this: https://image.fisheriessupply.com/c_...y-head-it1-tif

[BOATS]

Hey guys, just a little update... I've been speaking with the folks at Princecraft and they actually thought for my year that there should be external screws on the casting deck and sent me an image that shows where the screws are, but in my case there are definitely no screws hidden in the carpet so looks like they are underneath. As my carpets are still in fantastic shape, I have no intentions of tearing that up so I'm just going to leave it be. What I will do is install a new aerator pump that replaces my current intake pump and replace the screen filter and then I will swap out my toggle switch with a 3 way switch and connect a livewell pump timer to just constantly pump in fresh water throughout the day.

I am assuming that most people that use a recirculation pump to re-oxygenate the livewell water is because they have to activate a pump to empty the livewell and it's not an overflow style gravity empty well like mine. (Mine has a threaded tube that screws in to a bottom drain - if water in the livewell gets too high, the top of the tube acts as an overflow and then you unscrew the tube to drain the well) So with that in mind, I am assuming that just bringing in fresh water via the timer is just as good, if not better than recirculating the livewell water. Does that make sense?

Thanks again guys :)

Yes, recirc just keeps recirculating the dirty water. Pump on timer puts fresh water in every three minutes for a 1 minute run time. That is what I do and fish are always healthy.

[Real L]

We live up north and most of the time, the water gets over 70 degrees only a couple of weeks during the summer so managing a livewell is a little bit different.
If you just change the water, the cooler water is in the middle of the lake or river so you have to stop and start the pump to change some of the water. If you wait to do it in a bay, the water is warmer, sometimes by 4 or 5 degrees. Not really what you want.
The recirculating pump can work while your are going from spot to spot.
I've used the two systems from Princecraft and I think the one with a recirculating pump and timer is much better. The fish are in perfect shape at the end of the day. With the timer you don't forget to turn the pump on.
The standard Atwood nozzles are the ones I am using now and they work well.

[DanR]

We live up north and most of the time, the water gets over 70 degrees only a couple of weeks during the summer so managing a livewell is a little bit different.
If you just change the water, the cooler water is in the middle of the lake or river so you have to stop and start the pump to change some of the water. If you wait to do it in a bay, the water is warmer, sometimes by 4 or 5 degrees. Not really what you want.
The recirculating pump can work while your are going from spot to spot.
I've used the two systems from Princecraft and I think the one with a recirculating pump and timer is much better. The fish are in perfect shape at the end of the day. With the timer you don't forget to turn the pump on.
The standard Atwood nozzles are the ones I am using now and they work well.

Yeah this is why I wanted the timer for the pump, I was tired of having to remember to keep turning it on and off. I fish the St. Lawrence and as you said, the water rarely gets very warm so I'm not too concerned about the heat. In the past if I saw fish starting to struggle in the well, I would just let them go... I don't tournament fish in the dead of summer either so no biggie.

[DanR]

Yes, recirc just keeps recirculating the dirty water. Pump on timer puts fresh water in every three minutes for a 1 minute run time. That is what I do and fish are always healthy.

OK good to know. Yeah I've getting the variable pro timer from flowrite, so you can adjust the timer from 1 minute intervals for 60 seconds to 14 minute intervals and I'm going to change my pump switch from a 2 way to a 3 way so I can have it fill and then switch to the timer.

[njpaulc]

I don't add ice but wouldn't adding the cooler river water to the warming well water keep the water cool at the river/lake temperature? I did think of the treated water, but there's not much I can do other than add a bit more every few hours. Ideally I would of course like to have a recirculation cycle if I could get that dang floor up without destroying the carpets. I'm not worried about O2 levels as the nozzle will re-oxygenate the water each time it runs.

I'll keep looking for a viable recirculate option but so far this is about as far as I can go. Either way I have to replace the main pump and filter and add a timer, I can always add the second pump if I can get the floor out.

Btw are there livewell nozzles that are better than others in terms of oxygenating the water? I have the standard Attwood nozzle like this: https://image.fisheriessupply.com/c_...y-head-it1-tif

If you're always fishing in a river with current then you shouldn't have a problem. I fished a summer tournament in a small lake in a friends boat, and no matter how much ice we added, everytime we added water,the livewell tempature went up because the lake kept getting warmer. We had 3 or 4 64 oz blocks of ice and we melted them all by noon.

Until I added an in tank recirculation pump in my old boat, the livewell was a "fish cooker" and unusable. I added two sheets of strofoam to the lid, and the in tank pump and I had no more problems.