Gods Judgement of those raised in other beliefs

[Chisco]

This question presupposes that the ability to be saved is dependent upon where we are born, how we are raised and what we are taught. The lives of millions of people who have come out of false religions—or no religion at all—through the centuries clearly refute this idea. Heaven is not the eternal dwelling place of those who were fortunate enough to be raised in Christian homes in free nations, but of those who came to Christ from “every tribe and language and people and nation” (Revelation 5:9). People in all cultures and in every phase of history are saved the same way—by the grace of God given to undeserving sinners, not because of what we know, where we are born or how we have been indoctrinated, but “because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us” (Romans 5:5).

While some may be ignorant of the content of Scripture and the teachings of Christ, they are by no means deprived of any knowledge of what is right and wrong, nor are they deprived of the knowledge of God’s existence. Romans 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about Christ. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.

(S. Michael Houdman)

[HoustonG]

I don't know who S. Michael Houdman is but some of that statement can't go unchallenged.

A person would have to be in blind denial of fact to actually believe that geography and culture don't influence religious choice. Exposure to certain beliefs, especially parental influence absolutely impacts religious choice. I don't disagree that millions throughout history have rejected their native religion, but that's in no way evidence against geographical influence. For each one of those millions there are a million others who simply weren't exposed to anything other than what their culture taught. In other words, exceptions to rules don't negate the rules.

While some may be ignorant of the content of Scripture and the teachings of Christ, they are by no means deprived of any knowledge of what is right and wrong, nor are they deprived of the knowledge of God’s existence

This statement surprises me for two reasons. First, all traditional christian teachings emphasize the need to read scripture (word of God) to find their salvation. This statement seems to suggest that just knowing right from wrong is enough, and that suspecting God exists is a given? I would be rich if I had a dime every time I've heard preachers say "you don't get to heaven by being good". This seems to stand at odds with that belief.

Romans 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.”

The problem with this is that even if people recognize creation and the divine nature of things, the credit will be given to whatever God is worshipped in their region and culture.

In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about Christ. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.

In reality, "hearing" of christ is not the same as having christianity put in front of you from the day you are born because it's what your parents observed and it's family tradition. I've 'heard" of islam but I've never had it presented to me in any depth by those who follow it. Does that mean I rejected it the same as someone born in Iraq would have to reject it? not even close.

everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.

The fact is, people seeking truth from other parts of the world will tell you they were led to their religions. Everybody determines their own truth.

Chisco, please don't take my comments as arguing. I realize this isn't your statement.

[Chisco]

S. Michael Houdman is the CEO of Gotquestions.org. He has a bachelor and Masters degree in Theology from Calvary University. I have no affiliation with him or the organization. The website pops up sometimes when I am studying my Bible on-line.

[godsdozer]

If I were studying my bible online............... and "gotquestions.com" just popped up. I would seek to add to my device a pop-up blocker.

[rexico]

This question presupposes that the ability to be saved is dependent upon where we are born, how we are raised and what we are taught. The lives of millions of people who have come out of false religions—or no religion at all—through the centuries clearly refute this idea. Heaven is not the eternal dwelling place of those who were fortunate enough to be raised in Christian homes in free nations, but of those who came to Christ from “every tribe and language and people and nation” (Revelation 5:9). People in all cultures and in every phase of history are saved the same way—by the grace of God given to undeserving sinners, not because of what we know, where we are born or how we have been indoctrinated, but “because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us” (Romans 5:5).

While some may be ignorant of the content of Scripture and the teachings of Christ, they are by no means deprived of any knowledge of what is right and wrong, nor are they deprived of the knowledge of God’s existence. Romans 1:20 tells us, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.” In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about Christ. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after Truth will find it. If a person sincerely desires to know the true God, God will make Himself known.

(S. Michael Houdman)

If the muslin guy put out the same effort to find Christ, as you have to find Allah, do you think he would convert?

[Chisco]

If the muslin guy put out the same effort to find Christ, as you have to find Allah, do you think he would convert?

This is what the Bible says….Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.”

Do you think it’s even possible to search for God with all our heart and with all our soul in our sinful world?

[Chisco]

If I were studying my bible online............... and "gotquestions.com" just popped up. I would seek to add to my device a pop-up blocker.

I am not surprised. Better wording is that it is one of the many choices that come up in google during biblical searches (not the computer term “pop-up”).

[godsdozer]

I am not surprised. Better wording is that it is one of the many choices that come up in google during biblical searches (not the computer term “pop-up”).

I was half way kidding too

[digthemup]

God will judge even onto those that have not heard the words of Christ, and the matter is discussed in Romans 2.

Romans 2: 6-16
6 God will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life:
8 but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil; of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 but glory, honor, and peace, to every man that worketh good; to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 for there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law; and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ.

I am sure that there may be some who will attempt to be contentious about this matter in hope to create disputation while boasting of greater knowledge, therefore, onto them I say to take their quarrel against God in the day when you will be on bended knee before Him.

[HoustonG]

This is what the Bible says….Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.”

It's important to acknowledge the previous two verses to give this one context. The previous verses say that men will be worshipping objects and idols (wood and stone) and FROM THERE must seek the lord your God. If all you know are those idols, what would prompt you to suddenly look for God?

Romans 1:20 mentioned in the original post creates the same dilemma. It implies that those with no prior inclination would look at the world around them and somehow start seeking God. Are we to assume a person with no human contact or no exposure to any religion would say, "wow! look at those beautiful mountains and that gorgeous blue sky! Someone had to create this! God? Lord? where are you?" Keep in mind they would have no reason to use the words "God" or "Lord" without being prompted. Also, would they just assume this creator is invisible and has requirements of them that they must learn?

Plus, consider this: If seeking God and gaining salvation is designed to happen spontaneously without human persuasion, why would there be a purpose for the great commission? Why do so many churches do "missionary" work to spread the word? Do they have no faith in Gods plan?

[LewStulePH.D.]

If the muslin guy put out the same effort to find Christ, as you have to find Allah, do you think he would convert?

nein... hala ala

حولالى

[Chisco]

[QUOTE=HoustonG;12202960]It's important to acknowledge the previous two verses to give this one context. The previous verses say that men will be worshipping objects and idols (wood and stone) and FROM THERE must seek the lord your God. If all you know are those idols, what would prompt you to suddenly look for God?

Obviously, they already seek a God as they have idols or false Gods. How/Why did they create them? I would think deep dissatisfaction with false idols would generate questions about a real God. Sin gets in the way of seeking God with all your heart and soul.

Romans 1:20 mentioned in the original post creates the same dilemma. It implies that those with no prior inclination would look at the world around them and somehow start seeking God. Are we to assume a person with no human contact or no exposure to any religion would say, "wow! look at those beautiful mountains and that gorgeous blue sky! Someone had to create this! God? Lord? where are you?" Keep in mind they would have no reason to use the words "God" or "Lord" without being prompted. Also, would they just assume this creator is invisible and has requirements of them that they must learn?

I would guess the simple question most ask at some point in their lives…..how did we come into being and what created the world?

Plus, consider this: If seeking God and gaining salvation is designed to happen spontaneously without human persuasion, why would there be a purpose for the great commission? Why do so many churches do "missionary" work to spread the word? Do they have no faith in Gods plan?

God uses missionary work to help reveal Himself.

These answers are my opinion based on Gods scripture above.[Quote]

[HoustonG]

Obviously, they already seek a God as they have idols or false Gods. How/Why did they create them? I would think deep dissatisfaction with false idols would generate questions about a real God. Sin gets in the way of seeking God with all your heart and soul.

But they're only false Gods to you. From their perspective YOU are worshipping a fasle God. They probably look at American christianity and see deep dissatisfaction from the followers here. I'm not arguing with you Chisco, but you have to acknowledge the fact that people in other countries who follow different religions aren't looking at us thinking our religion is real and theirs isn't. They would say your sin causes you to reject their REAL God. Sometimes we live in such a bubble that we assume everybody must be seeing things from our point of view. Can anyone here honestly say they examined all other religions deeply and without bias and then chose christianity after giving them all an equal chance to impress you? I doub't anyone here could honestly say that.

I would guess the simple question most ask at some point in their lives…..how did we come into being and what created the world?

I agree. I'm sure that very question led to the creation of many varieties of religion.

God uses missionary work to help reveal Himself.

That's trying to have your cake and eat it too. It's either spontaneous from nature as the scripture says, or it requires human influence which would negate most of what's being debated here.

[Chisco]

But they're only false Gods to you. From their perspective YOU are worshipping a fasle God. They probably look at American christianity and see deep dissatisfaction from the followers here. I'm not arguing with you Chisco, but you have to acknowledge the fact that people in other countries who follow different religions aren't looking at us thinking our religion is real and theirs isn't. They would say your sin causes you to reject their REAL God. Sometimes we live in such a bubble that we assume everybody must be seeing things from our point of view. Can anyone here honestly say they examined all other religions deeply and without bias and then chose christianity after giving them all an equal chance to impress you? I doub't anyone here could honestly say that.

I cant argue with you here….we are a nation full of people that say we are Christians simply because we associate with a certain church or assembly. However, I would guess that a very small percentage of those identifying as Christian are truly believers in Christ. It’s simply what they’ve been brought up to know.

Our country is a terrible example for others that are looking for the true God. I attended the Marine Corp Command and Staff College years ago and was able to speak to or hear our allies (Japan, South Korea and others) give their opinion of what their countries think of the United States. The common thoughts were that we are a corrupt and conceited nation that cares only about ourselves.

I will say this however, I think we have the highest percentage of true Christians in the world today but that number continues to dwindle as time passes.

As far as examining other religions….no, I haven’t. I have a very limited knowledge of some of the more popular ones…Muslim, Hindu etc. But, once again, (and I know most think this is crazy) I have faith that the Holy Spirit guides me in my beliefs.

[HoustonG]

[bassfishinglawyer]

I believe in strongly in Romans 1. I also know that God is the judge and, thankfully, I am not. He can bestow His mercy on anyone He desires. I also know the following, which may give some indication of how God will act toward people who have not know the Way:

- Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian - it was FAITH and ACTS toward God that made him a "hero" of the bible
- Jesus said (in Mark 9) "whoever is not against us is for us."
- Peter tells us it will be better for someone not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and ignored it.

[LewStulePH.D.]

Couldn't that also be asked if someone is only fluent in French and then You ask how their dreams are?

[LewStulePH.D.]

- Abraham was neither Jew nor Christian - it was FAITH and ACTS toward God that made him a "hero" of the bible

Don't forget the new, soon to open "AbrahamHouse" where the Abrahamic Faiths are 'teaming up' in 2022. All on the 'same team'

this doesn't give pause to any faithful™? Yipes!

I've penned a letter (no phone, intraweb) to my Jesuit friends to get the real scoop but my 'spidey sense' says "bad medicine"...

Shalom

[LewStulePH.D.]

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