Prophecies: Does God ever change?

[godsdozer]

What if I told you I said that only because I would gladly buy a car from you?

[sdbrison]

Maybe God is "above time" or perhaps "beyond time" are better words than outside of time. He also works within time as the Word says, very clearly in John 3:16. We are finite creatures and unable to fully comprehend infinity. My belief is living forever is being in the presence of God (Adam and Eve before the fall). A dear teacher of mine put it as living "without the handicap of time". Our human limitations cannot logically or reasonablly comprehend that (no beginning or end) but our faith call us to believe exactly that. Paul said he preached the resurected Saviour, without that there is nothing.
I am a brother of Christ, which makes me a Son of God. Christ is God. See how logical that all is

Houston, I appreciate your open mindness, and I agree that when anyone claims to have all the answers I tend to be skeptical, much the same as Jesus was of the religous scholars during his life. At the same time, I am also to the point that in some things my mind is made up and it will take an act of God (the Spirit) to change it. I believe God gave his Son to die for ME(all humankind) to sanctify me by His grace, that he arose from the dead (yes he died) and lives forever and grants me the same by belief. You said in another thread since Christ knew he would rise from the dead, then he really did not die. If that is the case then I will not die because I know I will also rise.

Peace to all my brothers here. (even dozer )

[godsdozer]

Moderator position for sale to the highest bidder !

[Jeff La]

In my simple mind I see God as a God of the Nation of Israel in the Old Testament. Then by the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus, God became a God of His People. Jesus brought us to a personal relationship with God.

[HoustonG]

You said in another thread since Christ knew he would rise from the dead, then he really did not die. If that is the case then I will not die because I know I will also rise.

My point was as it relates to people saying God "sacrificed" his son for our sins. If I gave you $20 and three days later you repaid me, would it be accurate to say I sacriced $20 for your benefit? (yes, I know we aren't supposed to question things like this)

Back to the topic of this thread. However we decide time and if god relates to it or not, how does that impact the fact that gods interaction/communication and devine interventions were inarguably more public, more obvious, and on a tremendously larger scale than what we see in modern times?

[HoustonG]

I just want to throw something out here in the middle of this conversation because it's always been on my mind when it comes to the conversation of God never changing.

What would the problem be if God has changed? Why is it so critically important that people think he dare never change one bit? Is it because it makes God fallible? I think that's ridiculous. God changing wouldn't mean he made mistakes, it could actually mean just the opposite. It wouldn't mean he rescinds our salvation or anything of the such. Man has changed in many ways. Our societies have changed. Modern civilization has changed. Why the resistance to the idea that god would alter his behavior accordingly? I really don't get it. Believing God loves us should be all we need to be secure in knowing that any way he might change will only be to our benefit, so why such fear over CHANGE?

It reminds me of the old arguments against evolution. Christians desperately want to think no living species, human or animal, could have ever changed over time. I always looked at it as an even greater wonder that God actually created things to change and adapt as needed. That's a greater God than one that just made everything static.

I'm sure it obvious by now that I tend to think outside the box on just about everything. I see no indication that God expects us to dumb down and just give "religiously correct" answers to every question.

[godsdozer]

My point was as it relates to people saying God "sacrificed" his son for our sins. If I gave you $20 and three days later you repaid me, would it be accurate to say I sacriced $20 for your benefit? (yes, I know we aren't supposed to question things like this)

Back to the topic of this thread. However we decide time and if god relates to it or not, how does that impact the fact that gods interaction/communication and devine interventions were inarguably more public, more obvious, and on a tremendously larger scale than what we see in modern times?

BACK TO THE TOPIC :


Because they were living in the last days (we are not, we are living in the Christian age or what is refered to as the "age to come in the bible" .....................There were supernatural events going on to "show" / "prove"/ "demonstrate" Jesus was the Messiah. Healings, resurrections, prophecies, tongues, ect. We do not see those things today because we are not living in "the last days" as they were.

Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Acts 2..... When the day of Pentecosta came, they were all together in one place. 2Suddenly a sound like a mighty rushing wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3They saw tongues like flames of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.5Now there were dwellingb in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound rang out, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard them speaking his own language.7Astounded and amazed, they asked, “Are not all these men who are speaking Galileans? 8How is it then that each of us hears them in his own native language? 9Parthians, Medes, and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,c 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome, 11both Jews and converts to Judaism; Cretans and Arabs—we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!”12Astounded and perplexed, they asked one another, “What does this mean?”13But others mocked them and said, “They are drunk on new wine!”14Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, lifted up his voice, and addressed the crowd: “Men of Judea and all who dwell in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and listen carefully to my words. 15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It is only the third hour of the day!d 16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:17‘In the last days, God says,I will pour out My Spirit on all people.Your sons and daughters will prophesy,your young men will see visions,your old men will dream dreams.18Even on My menservants and maidservantsI will pour out My Spirit in those days,and they will prophesy.19I will show wonders in the heavens aboveand signs on the earth below,blood and fire and billows of smoke.20The sun will be turned to darkness,and the moon to blood,before the coming of the great and glorious Day of the Lord.21And everyone who calls on the name of the Lordwill be saved.’e22Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know. 23He was delivered up by God’s set plan and foreknowledge, and you, by the hands of the lawless, put Him to death by nailing Him to the cross. 24But God raised Him from the dead, releasing Him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for Him to be held in its clutches.


see, easy peasy

[HoustonG]

BACK TO THE TOPIC :


Because they were living in the last days (we are not, we are living in the Christian age or what is refered to as the "age to come in the bible" .....................There were supernatural events going on to "show" / "prove"/ "demonstrate" Jesus was the Messiah. Healings, resurrections, prophecies, tongues, ect. We do not see those things today because we are not living in "the last days" as they were.

Ok, no disagreement here, but you stated earlier in this thread that God hasn't changed. Now you point out why Gods behavior/interaction is different now vs then. How does that not represent change? I feel like the word "change" is being defined from different perspectives, that's what I addressed in post #14 with no responses.

If the question is if the heart of God has changed, my answer is still I don't know. If "change" includes behavior then I don't know how anyone can honestly conclude that it hasn't.

[digthemup]

Dozer,

With regard to this point "I would often respond to that type of reasoning with something like this : If time doesn't mean anything to God, why does the Holy Spirit (God) direct men who wrote the bible to write things regarding time for our instruction / knowledge ?" Perhaps since the bible is directing mankind and mankind has to deal with the constrained of time, GOD has made allocation for such.
BTW, "P.s. I am not a car salesman, I really do ride yellow iron :)", according to Cat, it ain't yeller but gold, which at least it seemed that way every time I had to buy parts for mine.

[digthemup]

I just want to throw something out here in the middle of this conversation because it's always been on my mind when it comes to the conversation of God never changing.

What would the problem be if God has changed? Why is it so critically important that people think he dare never change one bit? Is it because it makes God fallible? I think that's ridiculous. God changing wouldn't mean he made mistakes, it could actually mean just the opposite. It wouldn't mean he rescinds our salvation or anything of the such. Man has changed in many ways. Our societies have changed. Modern civilization has changed. Why the resistance to the idea that god would alter his behavior accordingly? I really don't get it. Believing God loves us should be all we need to be secure in knowing that any way he might change will only be to our benefit, so why such fear over CHANGE?

Based on the observation of various answers you have give on many other posts, I strongly believe that you can easily answer any of the above questions, especially the 'what would it hurt if GOD changed?'
Here is a question 'What about the covenants GOD made by Himself onto His name?. Please give that some thought prior to your reply. Thanks

[HoustonG]

Based on the observation of various answers you have give on many other posts, I strongly believe that you can easily answer any of the above questions, especially the 'what would it hurt if GOD changed?'
Here is a question 'What about the covenants GOD made by Himself onto His name?. Please give that some thought prior to your reply. Thanks

So you're saying my responses to other posts answer the question of whether god changing would be detrimental to man? Please enlighten me on where I've answered that question. While you're at it, you can also answer the question I posed to you in post #19 if you're able.

I know of no covenant that forbids god from altering his behavior as he sees fit.


Love, your ex
xoxoxo

[digthemup]

Houston,
Here you go again trying to make things personal.
Here is your answer to post #19
A man makes is inferior is superior by anger, for even the BEST MAN is a man at best.

BTW, I strongly believe, that by the blood of Jesus Christ at the cross, GOD's mercy has been greatly expanded to mankind, or perhaps you may want to see it as 'altering is behavior'.
I am perfectly OK if you do not believe in the above statement.

Be well, be safe, and turn on that lane keeping monitor.

[HoustonG]

unless you are contradicting terms, doing something different represents change, correct?

To be clear, your answer to this^

A man makes is inferior is superior by anger, for even the BEST MAN is a man at best.

Is this^???????? seriously?

BTW, I strongly believe, that by the blood of Jesus Christ at the cross, GOD's mercy has been greatly expanded to mankind, or perhaps you may want to see it as 'altering is behavior'.
I am perfectly OK if you do not believe in the above statement.

That "above statement" of yours is as unrelated to this discussion as it could possibly be, and in no way whatsoever does it coincide with anything I've said.

Speaking of lanes....you aren't even on the same highway!

Please feel free to not read anything I post. The incoherent responses are just too much. You made more sense rambling about 5G and 6G.

[godsdozer]

First off, this thread is really not defined ,I am not sure what drifters definition of God changing. His immutability ? His plans ? His covenants ? His mind ? (really think the through the consequences of those if he does change, yikes !!!! )

When I posted earlier (post #9) I stated God does not change. I was speaking from a theological point of view about Gods immutability of his character, will or covenants.

Often times when we discuss "change", if the bible is not interpreted correctly (using analogy of faith ie; allowing scripture to interpret scripture) we get all kinds of answers and reasoning.

Let me give you an example :

The law / Sinai covenant given in the old testament was described as "eternal" . Well eternal means just that "eternal" but allowing scripture to interpret scripture we know that one day God would make a new covenant : P.s. think about this, if the first covenant was eternal in the sense of how we define eternal, remember, it had a beginning ( @sinai ) , eternal has no beginning.

Jerimiah 31

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah; not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; forasmuch as they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, saith the LORD


even though the sinai covenant was described as "eternal" we read in the new testament the fullfillment of Jerimiah 31.

Hebrews 8 :


By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Analogy of faith.............................just allow scripture to interpret scripture. In no way does the above mean God changed in his character, will or covenants.


P.s.

This topic gets very scholarly once you get off into the weeds. I am not educated enough to discuss the philosophical thoughts behind this topic, but I can provide the videos from scholars who can.

[godsdozer]

Dozer,

With regard to this point "I would often respond to that type of reasoning with something like this : If time doesn't mean anything to God, why does the Holy Spirit (God) direct men who wrote the bible to write things regarding time for our instruction / knowledge ?" Perhaps since the bible is directing mankind and mankind has to deal with the constrained of time, GOD has made allocation for such.
BTW, "P.s. I am not a car salesman, I really do ride yellow iron :)", according to Cat, it ain't yeller but gold, which at least it seemed that way every time I had to buy parts for mine.

You got it all wrong dig, you need gold to buy yeller iron parts and a lot of it too !

[digthemup]

You got it all wrong dig, you need gold to buy yeller iron parts and a lot of it too !

2 chains for the 87 D8 to rebuilt tracks 18K thru Cat. Went got set from Amish fella in Penn Yan 11K just as good.
You are right about needing a bag of gold at the Cat dealer. Glad to be out of that business, though I ever so miss my BIG toys.

[drifter106]

sry people....had a storm last night and it fried our modems. Just got them fixed this evening. Also fried the garage door opener to our big garage. Some of the outlets in the garage are toast as well. Have a electric pole about 30 ft from garage. Thats where it hit....grrrrh! Saw a flash, a fizzing sound then a clap of thunder!!!!!! Pretty much instantaneously.

We normal get about 34 inches of rain a year in our area of the state. We have had over 50 inches so far this year. Will go back and read the thread and answer accordingly. Hope everyone is having a good evening!!!

[godsdozer]

sry people....had a storm last night and it fried our modems. Just got them fixed this evening. Also fried the garage door opener to our big garage. Some of the outlets in the garage are toast as well. Have a electric pole about 30 ft from garage. Thats where it hit....grrrrh! Saw a flash, a fizzing sound then a clap of thunder!!!!!! Pretty much instantaneously.

We normal get about 34 inches of rain a year in our area of the state. We have had over 50 inches so far this year. Will go back and read the thread and answer accordingly. Hope everyone is having a good evening!!!

Sorry for the trouble you have had drifter, hope you get it all fixed. Oh boy, you have some interesting reading to do. we tried to get back on topic

[digthemup]

sry people....had a storm last night and it fried our modems. Just got them fixed this evening. Also fried the garage door opener to our big garage. Some of the outlets in the garage are toast as well. Have a electric pole about 30 ft from garage. Thats where it hit....grrrrh! Saw a flash, a fizzing sound then a clap of thunder!!!!!! Pretty much instantaneously.

We normal get about 34 inches of rain a year in our area of the state. We have had over 50 inches so far this year. Will go back and read the thread and answer accordingly. Hope everyone is having a good evening!!!

Sorry to hear that your transformer was hit by lightning, and I pray that the water nor the lightning did any harm to y'all. If possible, get the ground transformer, but I do not know your building rules or who pays for it.

[sdbrison]

Maybe the real question is how we define change? Does a change in behavior represent change? That's more specific to what I was referencing. As far as "has God changed?" Outside the realm of his interaction with man my answer is an absolute I don't know.

Houston, backing up a little but wanted to add a little more. I have read back thru most of this thread to try to understand your question and your belief. If I understand correctly you believe since God's actions have changed (no parting of the sea in over 4k years, etc.), then God has changed, or you are not sure if that means he changed. In answer to that I will agree with something I believe Frank said in an ealier post, changes in actions don't mean change in essence. A couple of examples of what I mean by that. I have five children, four boys and one daughter. I want the same thing for all of them, that they have a close relationship with God, aka that they live in peace. (see my siggy below). How I interact with each of them is different, especially magnified with my daughter versus the four boys. That does not mean I am a different person even though my actions are different. Make sense?
As for God and my belief He is unchanging, He promised Abraham that all nations would be blessed through his offspring. That took parting the sea, giving water from a rock, making donkeys talk (one of my favorite signs), and eventually embedding himself into the world as a human to fulfill that promise. Just because He is not doing the same things today doesn't means He has changed imho.
You also asked why is it a problem if God does change. I am fairly fundamental in my beliefs, I believe that the Bible is the Spirit inspired word of God. Yes people have different understandings of that Word, but once you give up trusting in its authority you can easily end up with a belief that is your own and not a belief in God. There are over 100 versus in the bible that speak to the fact that God does not change (a quick Google will give all you want). I can't think in my mind or believe in my heart that God changes when one of the gifts He gave to us clearly states that He does not. Roman Catholics catch a lot of flack from protestants for following tradition instead of the bible. From the many conversations I have had with my Catholic brothers, they believe in tradition and the bible and I am confident none of the fundamental Catholics would deny what the bible states even though they may have a slightly different understanding. There are many more common beliefs between the two groups than there are differences as you can see from the OPs stance of an unchanging God and the vast majority of protestants that posted on this thread stating the same belief.

With all of that said, I could be totally off in left field and God is having a jolly good laugh about it right now. But that is what the Holy Spirit (God) working in my life in the present time has led me to believe. My continual prayer is for God to continue to change me into what He desires me to be.

Peace